What about Hebrews 6: 4-6 ?

Guojing · Apr 10, 2022

RickReads said:
Will you be upset if you find out Christianity has to face tribulation as well?

Some of us believe in the pre-trib rapture, but, if that happens, there are certain rules I will need to follow in order to "stay saved" during then, which are not for us now.

1an · Apr 10, 2022

RickReads said:
In Guojing's case, it's more of a chop and toss than a divide and separate

With the good meat tossed in the bin with only that which is fit for dogs left on the table.

RickReads · Apr 10, 2022

Guojing said:
Some of us believe in the pre-trib rapture, but, if that happens, there are certain rules I will need to follow in order to "stay saved" during then, which are not for us now.

The gospel will not change. That's a myth.

Guojing · Apr 10, 2022

RickReads said:
The gospel will not change. That's a myth.

Some of us prefer a literal understanding of the words spoken and written.

RickReads · Apr 10, 2022

1an said:
With the good meat tossed in the bin with only that which is fit for dogs left on the table.

Keep it nice. You'll feel better about all this later if you do.

Guojing · Apr 10, 2022

~Cassia~ said:
The other thing that’s moved on in typology is Israel as a nation transformed into individuals led by Christ thru the Holy Spirit.

But you do agree that, during the Tribulation, if one were to take the mark of the beast, there is no possibility of repentance for him, as Hebrews 6:6 is implying?

RickReads · Apr 11, 2022

Guojing said:
Some of us prefer a literal understanding of the words spoken and written.

Is that what you think you have? I think not.

1an · Apr 11, 2022

Guojing said:
Some of us prefer a literal understanding of the words spoken and written.

Like for example God can move mountains, when back in the day, an insoluble problem was known as a mountain.

It is not always wise to interpret that which is spiritual, literally.
.

Guojing · Apr 11, 2022

RickReads said:
Is that what you think you have? I think not.

That is fine, I cannot control how others choose to regard me. =)

Guojing · Apr 11, 2022

1an said:
Like for example God can move mountains, when back in the day, an insoluble problem was known as a mountain.

It is not always wise to interpret that which is spiritual, literally.
.

Well when Jesus taught that, during the Tribulation, Matthew 24:13

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Do you think it is wise to take what he says literally there?

1an · Apr 11, 2022

Guojing said:
Well when Jesus taught that, during the Tribulation, Matthew 24:13

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Do you think it is wise to take what he says literally there?

The whole chapter is about being faithful to the Good Shepherd all the days of our life. Yes, do it. Follow the saviour, not literally on foot, but in your heart and mind.

RickReads · Apr 11, 2022

Guojing said:
That is fine, I cannot control how others choose to regard me. =)

I regard you just fine. But this isn't about that and I refute your theology where I believe it is wrong.
You have some disadvantage because I know your belief system well and I have spent the biggest portion of my studies on the epistles of Paul going back about 35 years.

1an · Apr 11, 2022

RickReads said:
I regard you just fine. But this isn't about that and I refute your theology where I believe it is wrong.
You have some disadvantage because I know your belief system well and I have spent the biggest portion of my studies on the epistles of Paul going back about 35 years.

You have an advantage over me because I know nothing of this Pauline sub-culture.
.

Guojing · Apr 11, 2022

1an said:
The whole chapter is about being faithful to the Good Shepherd all the days of our life. Yes, do it. Follow the saviour, not literally on foot, but in your heart and mind.

So you do agree that Jesus is saying if one don't endure to the end during the Tribulation, he might not be saved?

RickReads · Apr 11, 2022

1an said:
You have an advantage over me because I know nothing of this Pauline sub-culture.
.

Some of it's good and some of it isn't. Pauls's epistles merit special attention because he identifies himself as God's apostle for the Gentiles. The book of Acts confirms it.

Anyway, I'll stop there or well go way off-topic.

Guojing · Apr 11, 2022

1an said:
You have an advantage over me because I know nothing of this Pauline sub-culture.
.

Actually its quite simple.

Where do you get your salvation doctrine from? If you are like almost every Christian, you have to get it from Paul's epistles.

JulieB67 · Apr 11, 2022

RickReads said:
Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

I think if we back up to the first verse we'll see the context,

Hebrews 6:1 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,"

Perfection would be maturation as a Christian. And sometimes that does take time.

We know the foundation is Christ. So we can't keep laying that foundation for a Christian that has sinned because it's like crucifying him all over again therefore putting him into an open shame. We can't keep getting "re saved". After someone knows the foundation and has been enlighted all that is needed is repentance at that point. Which we know means a change of heart.

That's what Paul would call "milk" as well. A church that has only saved people in their church should move past alter calls and into the meat of God's work. Of course if there are visitors/unsaved, then yes, lay the foundation for them. But don't lay it for Christians that have already been enlightened.

We all will fall short at times in our flesh. But upon that all we need to do is repent- ask for help with certain sins that we continue to struggle with and so on. God knows our hearts/minds.

Daniel Marsh · Apr 11, 2022

Is there a summary of what went on?

eleos1954 · Apr 12, 2022

RickReads said:
This passage is often seen and used to deny hope to those who have strayed from the path of Jesus Christ. Often there is little pity for those who are in this condition.

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This book is written to the Jewish nation, who had just been exposed to the wonderful truth that Jesus was their long-awaited Messiah. If they rejected the clear evidence of the Word and Holy Spirit regarding this precious truth, there was nothing more that God could do to convince them.

This is what Jesus referred to when He said, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead” (Luke 16:31 NKJV). In other words, if we reject Jesus and the Holy Spirit after knowing them, we are turning away from the best that God has to offer us. There is nothing better He can send to convince us to follow His Word.

This truth is borne out more fully a little later in Hebrews: “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries” (Hebrews 10:26, 27). God cannot save us from continuing in willful sin and rejection of the Holy Spirit.

But when a backslider repents of his sins, will God simply reject him? Or can he still be saved? God is always open to repentance.

Guojing · Apr 12, 2022

Daniel Marsh said:
Is there a summary of what went on?

Simply, if you want to believe salvation can be lost, you will regard that passage as written to us today.

But if you want to believe in OSAS, you will either try to "spiritualize" the passage by inserting Pauline revelation into it, or you will regard that passage as written only to the nation of Israel for a specific time period.

What about Hebrews 6: 4-6 ?

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