What about all this lying?

[OldWiseGuy]

Sure Trump and Hillary lie through their teeth, but don't all politicians, and most people as well? Cynical? What's the truth?

The truth is that politicians especially cannot tell the truth. Telling the truth about most anything would cost them election or re-election. But wait. The people also have little stomach for the truth, preferring "smooth things", having ears that "itch" for the lies of their leaders.

So we're all really just one big happy, lying family.

 

[Greg J.]

It will never be OK to accept this aspect of culture.

The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Matthew 12:35-37, 1984 NIV)

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. (1 Corinthians 4:5, 1984 NIV)

Unfortunately, this is what it takes to please Americans. They're the source of our candidates.

 

[Uber Genius]

Sure Trump and Hillary lie through their teeth, but don't all politicians, and most people as well? Cynical? What's the truth?

The truth is that politicians especially cannot tell the truth. Telling the truth about most anything would cost them election or re-election. But wait. The people also have little stomach for the truth, preferring "smooth things", having ears that "itch" for the lies of their leaders.

So we're all really just one big happy, lying family.

In Trumps case I think he actual doesn't recall earlier positions. I think he just makes it up as he goes along and thinks nobody will ever notice. Deluded might be a better word for his behavior.

Hillary has taken obfuscating the truth and covering those lies up to a whole....nother...level!

She is the corrupter. She makes Nixon look like some catty little school girl in comparison. She is he next Putin!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It will never be OK to accept this aspect of culture.

The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Matthew 12:35-37, 1984 NIV)

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. (1 Corinthians 4:5, 1984 NIV)

Unfortunately, this is what it takes to please Americans. They're the source of our candidates.

And true representatives of the culture in general.

 

[Paradoxum]

I tend to feel that people who complain about politicians lying are stupid. Life isn't simple, there are various reasons to lie... some reasonable, some wrong.

There should be a balance, and truth should be aimed for, but I don't know why we should expect 100% truth.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I tend to feel that people who complain about politicians lying are stupid. Life isn't simple, there are various reasons to lie... some reasonable, some wrong.

There should be a balance, and truth should be aimed for, but I don't know why we should expect 100% truth.

Everyone contributes to the general dishonesty, but of course politicians are the worst.

 

[Paradoxum]

Everyone contributes to the general dishonesty, but of course politicians are the worst.

Isn't it because they think the general public can't take the truth? That they might vote for a nice lie?

Or that the public wont be reasonable?

You could say that they should tell the truth, and if the public make the wrong decision they will learn for next time. Or you can could say that politicians are reasonable in lying about some things.

I'm not saying it's always right, but I get why good people lie for good.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Isn't it because they think the general public can't take the truth? That they might vote for a nice lie?

Or that the public wont be reasonable?

You could say that they should tell the truth, and if the public make the wrong decision they will learn for next time. Or you can could say that politicians are reasonable in lying about some things.

I'm not saying it's always right, but I get why good people lie for good.

I think we all avoid the larger truths of life so it's no surprise that we also handle the small things carelessly as well. However, politicians (and lawyers) lie deliberately and maliciously.

 

[Strivax]

OK, so in my country, the UK, politicians don't actually tell lies. It would be too damaging to their careers if they were found out. They just don't tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. They prevaricate, and equivocate, and say half-truths, and dissemble. And they say the things they think the people want to hear. And when the people hear those things, they vote for those politicians. Who's to blame, the people, or the politicians? Seems like moot point, to me. I think the people get the politicians the people deserve.

Cheers, Strivax.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Sure Trump and Hillary lie through their teeth, but don't all politicians, and most people as well? Cynical? What's the truth?

The truth is that politicians especially cannot tell the truth. Telling the truth about most anything would cost them election or re-election. But wait. The people also have little stomach for the truth, preferring "smooth things", having ears that "itch" for the lies of their leaders.

So we're all really just one big happy, lying family.

And yet people still vote and defend/fight for these liars...

 

[tatteredsoul]

OK, so in my country, the UK, politicians don't actually tell lies. It would be too damaging to their careers if they were found out. They just don't tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. They prevaricate, and equivocate, and say half-truths, and dissemble. And they say the things they think the people want to hear. And when the people hear those things, they vote for those politicians. Who's to blame, the people, or the politicians? Seems like moot point, to me.

Cheers, Strivax.

People are to blame. There is no excuse for apathy and ignorance, especially in an age when any question can be answered on google in 0.031221 seconds.

People allow these politicians to continue their "untruths," and downright lies. People defend these liars, so they can continue to lie again. People ignore the obvious evil in many politicians, and choose them because they are programmed to believe in voting for evils.

You actually want to blame the politicians? They are playing the game exactly right - exploiting demagoguery and the public''s emotional and psychologic qualms in order to win a popularity contest.

People are to blame, and they always will be. The man helping the dying snake parable... for some reason people KNOW politicians are rotten, but they believe they won't get bitten.

 

[Cearbhall]

In Trumps case I think he actual doesn't recall earlier positions. I think he just makes it up as he goes along and thinks nobody will ever notice. Deluded might be a better word for his behavior.

I've wondered this when he denies tweets that are being quoted word-for-word to him. I think he just goes on angry rants in digital form and forgets what he said.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Most people get by from day to day only telling little white lies. That's different than telling black lies. Politicians are rightly held to a high standard regarding black lies, considering the importance of their offices.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Blondepudding]

Sure Trump and Hillary lie through their teeth, but don't all politicians, and most people as well? Cynical? What's the truth?

The truth is that politicians especially cannot tell the truth. Telling the truth about most anything would cost them election or re-election. But wait. The people also have little stomach for the truth, preferring "smooth things", having ears that "itch" for the lies of their leaders.

So we're all really just one big happy, lying family.

I think if the idea that lying is commensurate with political life, no society should be surprised by the politicians that are in office in their respective country.
People typically are treated the way they allow themselves to be treated.
Voting for the same old party type garners the same old reasons to complain about that party member.

 

[Blondepudding]

Most people get by from day to day only telling little white lies. That's different than telling black lies. Politicians are rightly held to a high standard regarding black lies, considering the importance of their offices.


eudaimonia,

Mark

I don't think someone can make a most people observation like that. An encompassing indictment isn't defensible really. More like a personal testimony would be appropriate for the disclosure itself. But not in any way afforded the capacity to speak for anyone else.


I don't get through my day telling little white lies.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I don't think someone can make a most people observation like that.

Then you can't say that I'm mistaken. But I will grant that this is my personal impression.

I don't get through my day telling little white lies.

Good! Well, maybe. I hope that you don't mean that you tell black lies, and I hope that you don't mean that you would fail to tell white lies and end up hurting someone else as a result.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Blondepudding]

Then you can't say that I'm mistaken.

I just did.

But I will grant that this is my personal impression.

That is the rational pov

Good! Well, maybe. I hope that you don't mean that you tell black lies, and I hope that you don't mean that you would fail to tell white lies and end up hurting someone else as a result.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Try not to speak for others or even imply such.
I meant exactly what I said. And in the context of what was said, a pretext such as what you've authored is not reasonable.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I just did.

I had you confused with OldWiseGuy.

Try not to speak for others or even imply such. [...] I meant exactly what I said.

I meant what I said too. And I wasn't speaking for you. I was trying to figure out what you meant, and I said what I hoped you weren't saying. All that you had to do was clarify what you meant.

And in the context of what was said, a pretext such as what you've authored is not reasonable.

I still don't know what you actually meant. I'm not a mindreader, and your words didn't narrow down your actual intent.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Blondepudding]

I had you confused with OldWiseGuy.

OK

I meant what I said too. And I wasn't speaking for you. I was trying to figure out what you meant, and I said what I hoped you weren't saying. All that you had to do was clarify what you meant.

I spoke clearly. All you had to do was think.

I still don't know what you actually meant. I'm not a mindreader, and your words didn't narrow down your actual intent.

Please!

 

[Eudaimonist]

I spoke clearly. All you had to do was think.

I did think. I thought that you weren't being clear. Sorry, but that's the case.


eudaimonia,

Mark