what abortion actually is!

[MoNiCa4316]

hello everyone... I think when we talk about abortion, it is important to have the correct understanding of what it actually is..and what actually takes place during an abortion. I doubt the politicians are keeping this in mind when they are discussing "human rights"...and everyone has a right to life, including the unborn.

Please watch these videos, they are pretty short.... Fr. Frank Pavone describes how abortions are done and reads from abortionists' own textbooks. He shows the instruments that were actually used to perform real abortions.

I think we can all agree that it is a horrible procedure, and causes the baby unimaginable pain. It is also very hard on the mother, and many women regret having abortions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us_y9GP_-DA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBOAPleF1t0&feature=related

Also please check out this link about the effects abortions have on women:

http://www.abortionfacts.com/effects/effects.asp

This is the harsh reality.

Peace

monica

 

[selfintercession]

Thank you for posting this Monica. It shouldn't matter what denomination you are, or even if you're Christian at all when it comes to this issue -- abortion is wrong plain and simple and the reasons are not only limited to the religious. 28 weeks? I can't believe this stuff... it actually sends shivers down my spine...

 

[MoNiCa4316]

indeed

and in Canada, where I live, there isn't any law against abortion...so basically, a person could get an abortion at any time during the 9 months of pregnancy

 

[selfintercession]

Not to mention the fact that abortions are paid for by the government just like most other medical procedures... how sad is it that they'll pay for murdering babies but not for eye exams (at least here in Ontario)?

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I just realized you also live in Canada! hehe...

and I didn't know that

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

I think we can all agree that it is a horrible procedure, and causes the baby unimaginable pain

That has never been proven. There is a great debate over whether a fetus can feel pain. So, no we don't all agree on that. For instance, one study that was published in JAMA (Journal of the Amnerican Medical Association) says

Evidence Synthesis Pain perception requires conscious recognition or awareness of a noxious stimulus. Neither withdrawal reflexes nor hormonal stress responses to invasive procedures prove the existence of fetal pain, because they can be elicited by nonpainful stimuli and occur without conscious cortical processing. Fetal awareness of noxious stimuli requires functional thalamocortical connections. Thalamocortical fibers begin appearing between 23 to 30 weeks’ gestational age, while electroencephalography suggests the capacity for functional pain perception in preterm neonates probably does not exist before 29 or 30 weeks.
Conclusions Evidence regarding the capacity for fetal pain is limited but indicates that fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third trimester. Little or no evidence addresses the effectiveness of direct fetal anesthetic or analgesic techniques. Similarly, limited or no data exist on the safety of such techniques for pregnant women in the context of abortion. Anesthetic techniques currently used during fetal surgery are not directly applicable to abortion procedures.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/294/8/947
Most abortions, at least in the US, occur in the first trimester, usually 12 weeks or less. So, if this is correct, fetuses don't feel anything most of the time.

I realize that not everyone agrees with the JAMA article, and even some medical personell disagree. However, the issue of fetal pain is still being debated. What you said is an opinion, not a proven fact.

It is also very hard on the mother

So is pregnancy and birth.

and many women regret having abortions.

Yes, but there are many women with no regrets whatsoever. It may seem like every woman who has a abortion regrets it, but that's not true. Check out this website
http://www.imnotsorry.net/whythis.htm

 

[selfintercession]

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I believe that unborn babies are conscious and can feel pain.

But even if this is not true...it still remains that since we can not create life, we have no right to take it away from anyone. Our bodies are not our own, whether we like it or not, and whether we know it or not...and we can not do whatever we want with them. The original sin was people wanting to be 'their own masters'. Sure we have free will, but people use free will to do evil all the time, and that doesn't change what good is and what evil is. That is determined by God. Taking away life can not be something that God supports.

Many pro-choice people say that abortion can 'help' women who can't afford to raise a child, etc. Well, there is solution to this that does not involve killing: give the baby up for adoption! Of course that is difficult too, but at least the baby would be alive and have the chance to experience life on earth, develop a relationship with God, and contribute to this world. I believe that all aborted babies (and in fact all infants who die) automatically go to heaven. But I believe that abortion grieves God... I think that Jesus is very sad when He sees His little ones being torn apart in their mothers womb by so-called "doctors".

I am not blaming the women, btw. I think that mostly, they are misinformed. Probably if they realized what abortion truly is, and what it means, fewer of them would choose to go through with it. I think that we must increase awareness in our society of what actually takes place during an abortion....that is what Fr. Frank Pavone is trying to do. And of course, we should show mercy and love to women who went through the procedure, and remember that God wants to forgive them, if only they'd ask Him. But as long as we continue the lie that abortion is something good and acceptable, these women would not see the reason to ask God for forgiveness, and would attribute the guilt they feel to things like "religious upbringing", etc.

And yes there are many women who regret abortions later on, who suffer from depression and other problems... many women who get abortions can never have a baby again!!!

So is pregnancy and birth.

hmmmmm the difference is that pregnancy and birth result in a new child who brings joy to the mother and others. Abortion results in one thing: death. And what's horrible is that this death is not natural, but the baby is murdered by the doctor in the way that Fr. Provone described.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

This is something I feel rather strongly about, because I believe that ALL people have the right to life, born and unborn. I also believe that God really loves children - you can see that very clearly from the Bible.

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
Matthew 19:14

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

my problem with your point NDNgirl4ever, is exactly what you said

There is a great debate over whether a fetus can feel pain.

. There are many unknowns still in fetal development, and medical advances mean younger and younger babies are saved (my pastor's 20th grandchild was born at 24weeks, and he is doing great today - 2 years later). The fact that there are unknowns should alone mean that abortion should not be a routinely perfomed procedure - in my opinion. pregnant women are told to be careful of alcohol and caffiene intake because there is no known safe level, yet we have no idea of the 'safe' level's for painlessly killing a fetus - yet do it anyway...

I haven't watched the above clips, nor will I, I have had children, seen their ultrasounds, and I can't stomach watching clips like that.
There is a confronting documentary called 'my foetus' made by Julia Black (who remains pro-choice). I haven't watched it, though it is in my cupboard, but my friend who is a teacher really recommends it... even though we're both pro-life.

 

[Ave Maria]

Indeed. Nothing can convince the pro-abortion people it seems.

 

[karisma]

^That's because we are not pro-abortion. We are pro-choice.

A vast difference.

 

[selfintercession]

^That's because we are not pro-abortion. We are pro-choice.

A vast difference.

I'm pro-choice too, it's just that you've already made the choice to risk getting pregnant when you've chosen to have sex. You don't gamble at the casino and then burn the place down when you lose. Or do you?

 

[karisma]

I'm pro-choice too, it's just that you've already made the choice to risk getting pregnant when you've chosen to have sex. You don't gamble at the casino and then burn the place down when you lose. Or do you?

Consenting to sex is not the same as consenting to pregnancy.

 

[selfintercession]

Consenting to sex is not the same as consenting to pregnancy.

Not these days, that's for sure.

 

[selfintercession]

People have to start realizing that whether you believe in God or not, the primary purpose of sex is to reproduce. If you have sex, you might get pregnant, so instead of killing your child, take some responsibility for your actions. If you aren't ready to raise the kid yourself, you're free to put him or her up for adoption -- not the nicest option for a child, but certainly better than being torn apart by a doctor while still in your mother's womb.

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

And yes there are many women who regret abortions later on, who suffer from depression and other problems... many women who get abortions can never have a baby again!!!

Yes, of course there are risks to the procedure. There are risks to every type of surgery. Just because there are side effects and risks does not mean that the procedure should not be availible. For the most part, abortion is a safe procedure. Only about one in 100 women who have an abortion will have a serious complication.http://women.webmd.com/tc/abortion-topic-overview?page=2 The risk of infertility is quite low.http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/pregnancyandchildbirth/205237.html

You must remember that some people tend to play up and overstate the risks. We must keep these things in their proper persceptive.

The point is that just because their are risks to abortion, that doesn't mean that you should outlaw the procedure. If you were to do that, you have to stop every elective surgery.

I do agree that women should be given full and accurate medical information before they undergo the procedure. They do have a right to know what might happen. Sadly, a lot of the state mandated counseling is biased.

I think that we must increase awareness in our society of what actually takes place during an abortion....that is what Fr. Frank Pavone is trying to do.

He didn't say anything that isn't already widely availible through books and the internet. Many pro-choice and netural medical information websites will explain the procedure. It's not a secret, you just have to do a few minutes of easy research.

The fact that there are unknowns should alone mean that abortion should not be a routinely perfomed procedure - in my opinion

There are MANY unknowns in A LOT of areas of medicine, not just gynecology. That's why it's called the PRACTICE of medicine. There are also many things we don't know about psychology treatment. Should we stop all the current depression treatments because of that(despite the many people who benefit from the anti-depressants)? Again, if we were to do what you are suggesting, we'd have to halt a lot of good procedures and research, not just abortions. Unknowns alone are not a good enough reason to stop a procedure.

That's because we are not pro-abortion. We are pro-choice.

A vast difference.

That's true.

 

[selfintercession]

There are MANY unknowns in A LOT of areas of medicine, not just gynecology. That's why it's called the PRACTICE of medicine.

Actually, to practice something simply means to do it... right now I am practicing the art of typing on my computer, but there really aren't a lot of unknowns in that area as far as I know.

There are also many things we don't know about psychology treatment. Should we stop all the current depression treatments because of that? Again, if we were to do what you are suggesting, we'd have to halt a lot of good procedures and research, not just abortions.

The difference here is that the unknowns with abortion are whether or not the murder in question actually causes physical pain to the victim... the murder itself is still a known. Psychology and depression treatments don't generally include the intended ending of a life.

 

[karisma]

People have to start realizing that whether you believe in God or not, the primary purpose of sex is to reproduce. If you have sex, you might get pregnant, so instead of killing your child, take some responsibility for your actions. If you aren't ready to raise the kid yourself, you're free to put him or her up for adoption -- not the nicest option for a child, but certainly better than being torn apart by a doctor while still in your mother's womb.

For some people, having an abortion is the best option for them and most responsible thing to do.

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

Actually, to practice something simply means to do it... right now I am practicing the art of typing on my computer, but there really aren't a lot of unknowns in that area as far as I know.

Actually, to practice something simply means to do it... right now I am practicing the art of typing on my computer, but there really aren't a lot of unknowns in that area as far as I know.

Actually, practice means more than that. Webster's also defines the word as

2 a: to perform or work at repeatedly so as to become proficient

It also means to pursue a profession
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/practice

In medicine, a doctor is always working to improve his/her skill. There are always ways to improve, so you can never say that you've completely 100% mastered everything about a procedure. They are learning new skills and information all the time. In medicine you are always a student, always practicing your skills in order to get better.