We're all animals; define morality.

[Ymeg]

Recently, in my quest to become a Christian, I have questioned the aspect of morality. What is this? Why, from the common human eye, is stealing a sin? Animals, our equal, do all these things. Some species of Rhino's will kill younger ones just to show their dominance This is not a sin? Animals have shown signs of homosexuality (yet, this is not a sin. Prove that to me) link. So why is it acceptable for a god allowing such behavior among his species.

Please note that this paragraph is from ID thoughts.

 

[Confess]

God only created one being with a soul.

That is man.

Since the fall, the world fell into sin - hence animals act like animals.

 

[Johnnz]

Because only mankind is made in God's image i.e. with true freedom to act independently to moral principles.

John
NZ

 

[DArceri]

Recently, in my quest to become a Christian, I have questioned the aspect of morality. What is this? Why, from the common human eye, is stealing a sin? Animals, our equal, do all these things. Some species of Rhino's will kill younger ones just to show their dominance This is not a sin? Animals have shown signs of homosexuality (yet, this is not a sin. Prove that to me) link. So why is it acceptable for a god allowing such behavior among his species.

Please note that this paragraph is from ID thoughts.

GEN 1:27
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

 

[Calminian]

Recently, in my quest to become a Christian, I have questioned the aspect of morality. What is this? Why, from the common human eye, is stealing a sin? Animals, our equal, do all these things. Some species of Rhino's will kill younger ones just to show their dominance This is not a sin? Animals have shown signs of homosexuality (yet, this is not a sin. Prove that to me) link. So why is it acceptable for a god allowing such behavior among his species.

Please note that this paragraph is from ID thoughts.

This actually should help you understand why atheism is flawed. Do you not believe in morality of any kind. Is racism immoral? If you agree, please try to explain how, without the idea of a moral God. If nature is all there is, how can one say racism is wrong?

 

[heron]

Instead of facing it from the law enforcement aspect, picture it from the victim aspect, then work backward.

That is-- what do you want to make sure no one does to you.

Each person needs a certain amount of autonomy, space, respect, and fairness. When another person pushes into that space and imposes control, or demands something for themselves, that is an offense to our person.

We retain the right to use judgment on issues that concern ourselves, and to do that, the moral codes need to be agreed upon outside of ourselves.

Moral and religious laws are also relational, health-related, and economic. The concepts that Jesus taught are even more relational -- do unto others. He restored a sense of logic to the moral and religious codes at a time when leaders used these codes of conduct to oppress others.

 

[heron]

I read your thread title again, and thought about how animals adjust to each other. Two dogs in a house usually get along after the first month or so. Wild animals in our back yard aren't after each other (Just the blue jays.) The aggression is food-related.

Even if animals establish a heirachy or boundaries, it seems animals who occupy one space eventually co-exist fairly well. Some eat each other, but hey.

I would ask what you're thinking on the subject, but last time I did that it ended up appearing that I was baiting someone to get reported on their own thread... so just imagine that I asked you. (-;

 

[MikeMcK]

Recently, in my quest to become a Christian, I have questioned the aspect of morality. What is this? Why, from the common human eye, is stealing a sin? Animals, our equal, do all these things. Some species of Rhino's will kill younger ones just to show their dominance This is not a sin? Animals have shown signs of homosexuality (yet, this is not a sin. Prove that to me) link. So why is it acceptable for a god allowing such behavior among his species.

Please note that this paragraph is from ID thoughts.

If animals are sinners, then they'll have to answer to God for that.

However, you're not an animal and you have to answer to God for your own sins. What do you plan to do about that?

 

[rocklife]

there is a verse I heard on my bible walkmen tapes, in Genesis somewhere saying animals will also be held accountable (Genesis 9:5). I do agree with the verses shared here that show humans are different than animals though (Genesis 9:6). There is that serpent in the Beginning, he is given a curse for his evil, so I believe God does care about animals too, but we are not judge of that, God is.

 

[rocklife]

Recently, in my quest to become a Christian,

one encouragement I give you to really learn what is a christian, is read the New Testament and really think about Jesus and His teachings. His teachings have unfortunately often been misrepresented among churches over the centuries and even nowadays, but this is also a warning of His to watch out for. I was quite surprised at Jesus and His teachings from what I saw from my church experiences. So many tell me bible is not that important, and we don't have to do what Jesus says. Jesus has much different teachings than that, if you sincerely look for the Truth.

Jesus is our savior, not anyone else. We need to take Him (Christ) seriously if we are going to claim to be a Christian. I just want to encourage you in this. God bless your search for truth. God is good and gives us hope, I am so thankful.

 

[heron]

I was quite surprised at Jesus and His teachings from what I saw from my church experiences.

You have a good point there! We're in a phase with a lot of pop religiosity, and more focus on numbers and accomplishments, than depth and thoughtfulness.

 

[Ymeg]

This actually should help you understand why atheism is flawed. Do you not believe in morality of any kind. Is racism immoral? If you agree, please try to explain how, without the idea of a moral God. If nature is all there is, how can one say racism is wrong?

No, it's not - I'm not a racist or bigot of any kind, however I do not condone these type of actions.

Racism is an illogical point of view from an intelligent animal. Our complex evolved brain have lead to such problems.

Is killing immoral? No, however, I would not do it - Why you may ask? Human society has created it's own rules on conduct. I follow these because I have my own philosophical mind set. Do I believe killers should be in prisoned? Yes, I do - because of a "moral" stand point? No.

Other animal groups have feared the "top dog" and stood their own ground. Killing/Stealing ect. is a way that animal culture is and there is rules in most of these societies to punish these actions. This is why humans believe we are different from humans. Our rules are more apparent then others.

 

[DArceri]

No, it's not - I'm not a racist or bigot of any kind, however I do not condone these type of actions.

Racism is an illogical point of view from an intelligent animal. Our complex evolved brain have lead to such problems.

Is killing immoral? No, however, I would not do it - Why you may ask? Human society has created it's own rules on conduct. I follow these because I have my own philosophical mind set. Do I believe killers should be in prisoned? Yes, I do - because of a "moral" stand point? No.

Other animal groups have feared the "top dog" and stood their own ground. Killing/Stealing ect. is a way that animal culture is and there is rules in most of these societies to punish these actions. This is why humans believe we are different from humans. Our rules are more apparent then others.

If self-righteousness and no morality is the norm in society, then there would be chaos and no law. Man has a moral character and is supreme over all creation because God made him that way. Let me ask you, why did man's intellect develope over the thousands of years, yet apes intellect hasn't? Why is ape and, for that matter, any animal still as "intellectual stagnant" now as thousands of years ago? What does evolutionists say about that?

 

[Ymeg]

yet apes intellect hasn't? Why is ape and, for that matter, any animal still as "intellectual stagnant" now as thousands of years ago? What does evolutionists say about that?

There are different environmental factors (and animals) that will lead to different outcome of evolution. No primates shared the exact evolutionary path as humans.


link

 

[DArceri]

There are different environmental factors (and animals) that will lead to different outcome of evolution. No primates shared the exact evolutionary path as humans.


link

WHY ONLY HUMANS INTELLECT HAS EXPLODED? If earth has been around for a so-called billion years, how can that be? Surely, if you believe in math, statistics, and reason, the odds say that can't happen. WOW...what would be the odds that only humans would develope intellectually. Apes can't even multiply 2x2.

 

[Stinker]

The New testament says we humans have an animal nature that is called carnal. We Christians are commanded to keep our animal nature under subjection.

I do not see how we humans could have an animal nature yet not be of the animal family ourselves.


How this affects whether morality is subjective or objective is interesting. None of us want to be stolen from, taken advantage of, or hurt in any way. We all want enough food and drink, clothing and shelter, and and good health.

If anyone in the rest of the world are, or become, in such a way as to be extremely deficient in any or all of these areas, would it be immoral for the rest of us not to restore them? If the world were all Christian, then yes, it would be. Would it be immoral for non-Christians not to restore those others in the world? Many of them might say that without a world-wide objective standard, such as a law from a controlling world power nation, it would not be immoral because there could be very many reasons why each person thought they should not restore those people. Though they may sympathize with them.

Sadly, only Christians believe there is in existence a moral objective standard addressed to everyone....the New Testament.

 

[Fortuna]

Recently, in my quest to become a Christian, I have questioned the aspect of morality. What is this? Why, from the common human eye, is stealing a sin? Animals, our equal, do all these things. Some species of Rhino's will kill younger ones just to show their dominance This is not a sin? Animals have shown signs of homosexuality (yet, this is not a sin. Prove that to me) link. So why is it acceptable for a god allowing such behavior among his species.

Please note that this paragraph is from ID thoughts.

Hi Ymeg!

Moral codes are nothing new. Christians did not invent morality.

Ever hear of the Code of Hammurabi or the 42 purifications of the Ancient Egyptians, or Confucius, and of course the 613 laws or commandments of Judaism.

There have been and are many moral codes, religious and secular. Ever since man has been on earth he has had a moral code imposed upon him by his peers, his kings or his religion. We only know that the Code of Hammurabi is the first written evidence of one, at least I think it is the oldest.

This proves the fact that man was born into sin from the earliest times we have evidence of this.

God gave humans self-awareness. Animals do not have self-awareness. They have no conscious thought process that allows them to understand that someday they will die.

We have a God given consciousness that allows us to make choices for the growth of our spirit and soul. And, we are allowed to make these choices in this lifetime. We are allowed to know that we will some day die and that there is a Kingdom waiting for us.

The only moral code that I know of that offer grace, salvation and the love of God are the Ten Commandments and Christian doctrine. God gave us the free will to follow them or not and Jesus has offered to be our Lord and Saviour. It is up to us to overcome our animal instincts to become like Him and to be with Him.

God does not necessarily allow behavior, we allow it. God gives us the right to choose.

Blessings, Fortuna

 

[Ymeg]

Apes can't even multiply 2x2.

Primates have been taught many "human only" concepts.

Dr. Francine Patterson spent almost two decades teaching American Sign Language to Koko, a lowland gorilla. Koko has a sign language vocabulary of over 600 words

 

[DArceri]

Primates have been taught many "human only" concepts.

Come on Ymeg....Lets get serious here. Primates are trained through behavioral methods. They have no intellectual capacity to grow beyond what they are taught or what instincts they are born with. Why can't you admit man is uniquely set apart from any other creation.

 

[Seekermeister]

While the human body has an animallike form, and even the human mind has some animallike traits, the soul has nothing akin to animals. If a person's "eye" is blind to anything other than what can be physically seen, then this perception will be lost on them.

Morality is simply a term to label a behavior based on love. Animals do have a form of love, but this should never be confused with the kind of love that a human is capable of.