Wels?

[Tigger45]

Hi I just realized we have a WELS Lutheran church in our area. I was thinking about visiting them this Sunday but I have some quick questions. I used to attend an ELCA Lutheran church in the mid to late 90's but they were a bit liberal for me evan back then. No offense to my ELCA brothers and sisters. So I am familiar with the Lutheran church in general.

First question. Why are they not in communion with the LCMS?
#2. Dose the WELS have both traditional and contemporary worship styles?
#3. What is their teachings on the Eucharist, symbolic, the spiritual presence or the real presence of the body and the blood?
#4. Are the communion elements served to all professing christians or only WELS members?

And any other points of interest you might think of would be appreciated. THX!

 

[bach90]

There are probably a few LCMS/WELS differences forums around here, but:

1) The LCMS views the Pastoral office as the only divinely instituted office, with others being man-made. WELS views one divinely office that takes many forms (Pastor, Sunday school teacher, music minister etc.)

2) The LCMS allows women to vote in congregational meetings, or rather permits it (about 4% of LCMS congregations do not allow women's suffrage). WELS does not allow it at all.

3) Different issues about fellowship, who can pray with who, etc. In general the LCMS allows more opportunities for prayer with other Christians, however, neither allows for public prayer in any way with non-Christians.

There was also an issue in the late 1800s about predestination which is largely defunct.

 

[Moses Medina]

Hi I just realized we have a WELS Lutheran church in our area. I was thinking about visiting them this Sunday but I have some quick questions. I used to attend an ELCA Lutheran church in the mid to late 90's but they were a bit liberal for me evan back then. No offense to my ELCA brothers and sisters. So I am familiar with the Lutheran church in general.

First question. Why are they not in communion with the LCMS?
#2. Dose the WELS have both traditional and contemporary worship styles?
#3. What is their teachings on the Eucharist, symbolic, the spiritual presence or the real presence of the body and the blood?
#4. Are the communion elements served to all professing christians or only WELS members?

And any other points of interest you might think of would be appreciated. THX!

I know a WELS brother or sister in Christ will come along to better explain this then I am about to but here goes nothing. Also take note I am LCMS.

1. Preacherswife which is a member of the WELS told me that there are many discussions and lengthy ones at that on why there is the split, however both LCMS and WELS rejoice in each others salvation, also DaREV which is a LCMS Rev. has said before that both are very similar but both also apply certain doctrines differently.

2. WELS has both traditional and contemporary, traditional is the way to go. ;-)

3. WELS is confessional and hold to the teachings of Real Presence.

4.The Eucharist is both closed and close depending on the congregation. Meaning you have to be confirmed in the WELS synod or hold to the doctrine of real presence respectively. From my understanding many WELS congregations actually practice closed and even further some only to members of their own church. This is I believe at the discretion of the Senior Pastor on what he can do in good conscience.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Hi I just realized we have a WELS Lutheran church in our area. I was thinking about visiting them this Sunday but I have some quick questions. I used to attend an ELCA Lutheran church in the mid to late 90's but they were a bit liberal for me evan back then. No offense to my ELCA brothers and sisters. So I am familiar with the Lutheran church in general.

First question. Why are they not in communion with the LCMS?
#2. Dose the WELS have both traditional and contemporary worship styles?
#3. What is their teachings on the Eucharist, symbolic, the spiritual presence or the real presence of the body and the blood?
#4. Are the communion elements served to all professing christians or only WELS members?

And any other points of interest you might think of would be appreciated. THX!

Hi! Your interest in a WELS church is wonderful to hear. WELS is pretty conservative, although not the most conservative synod (I personally believe that goes to the CLC but that's just me). I'll answer your questions pretty much in order.

1. We're not in fellowship with the LCMS because of some minute doctrinal differences, mainly dealing with the pastoral office and women's suffrage. There's some issues with fellowship, too. As has already been posted, we refer to these as happy inconsistencies and we look forward to seeing our LCMS brothers and sisters in heaven as well.

2. Most WELS churches may only have the traditional liturgical service, but you'll find more and more WELS churches are adding a second, contemporary service. The style of worship may be a bit more relaxed and informal, but the message should be the same. I will say that it's hard to do a contemporary service correctly, and I often ask people what their motivation is for wanting a contemporary service.

3. We believe in Real Presence. That is, we believe that the bread and wine is both bread and wine AND the body and blood of Christ.

4. Generally, WELS churches practice close(d) communion. One must be a member of WELS to receive communion.

Let me know if you have other questions. I'd be more than happy to help, and I have a pretty good reference point to work with since my husband is a WELS pastor.

God's blessings on your journey.

 

[Tigger45]

Hi PreachersWife and thank you for responding. Now I know that Lutherans use a liturical service structure but when you say that it is hard to do a contemporary service correctly what do you mean by that? Thanks again.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Hi PreachersWife and thank you for responding. Now I know that Lutherans use a liturical service structure but when you say that it is hard to do a contemporary service correctly what do you mean by that? Thanks again.

By their very nature, they're hard to do correct. Most people want contemporary because they want a modern feel to the service. It's hard to find modern music that doesn't put an emphasis on our feelings and our actions versus the actions of God. And sometimes, contemporary services are 'shortened' services, so you lose A LOT of the liturgical element. I'm aware of a church where the contemporary service basically did away with the first half of the liturgy - they have the gospel reading and the sermon text, but pretty much nothing else. No confession of sins. It's weird.

There are churches that get it right, though. They're just rare, and to me that's a talented Pastor being totally led by the Spirit for that to work. My husband, while he is talented, has no desire to bring forth a contemporary service. I don't think anyone in our congregation wants it either.

 

[Exodus20]

Hi I just realized we have a WELS Lutheran church in our area. I was thinking about visiting them this Sunday but I have some quick questions. I used to attend an ELCA Lutheran church in the mid to late 90's but they were a bit liberal for me evan back then. No offense to my ELCA brothers and sisters. So I am familiar with the Lutheran church in general.

First question. Why are they not in communion with the LCMS?
#2. Dose the WELS have both traditional and contemporary worship styles?
#3. What is their teachings on the Eucharist, symbolic, the spiritual presence or the real presence of the body and the blood?
#4. Are the communion elements served to all professing christians or only WELS members?

And any other points of interest you might think of would be appreciated. THX!

Hello tigger45 ---

Good to see another Utahn post here on C-F . Born in S.L.C. and Christened at St. Marks Episcopal Catherdral back when... I'm in Santaquin , btw. A very long drive to a solid Liturgical/Evangelical/Bible-Believing Church...{ people not living in Utah have NO clue about the situation here... }

Good news for yaa tigger45 :

There is a WELS Church in Taylorsville: "Prince of Peace Lutheran" near 4500 South and they have a website - www dot popslc dot org with much information , including a link to the WELS homepage , and they have a You Tube link to watch the Pastor & sermon. I've talked to him on the phone , but never made it over there yet - just about an hour and 1/4 drive length. . WELS & ELC folks are conservative Lutherans. Call them and ask questions or check out the website.

More good news if you want a conservative Lutheran Church; Try also "Hope Lutheran Church" ( ELC ) in West Jordan. On 9000 South between 2700 West and 3200 West ...[ almost across the road from a mormon ward - with really bad drivers... ]

They have a website also: http: // west jordan lutherans dot com ( run the words together for the link - C-F will not let me do links because I'm a 'Newbie' ) .

I have talked with the Pastor on the Phone and by e-mail... seems like a solid guy. Check their website for more info. He also has some sermons on audio links , but not the whole service. ELC Evangelical Lutheran Synod is the new name for iirc , The older Norwegian Lutheran in America. They are smaller than WELS , but may actually grow as more folks get disgusted with liberalism from other denominations.

 

[DaRev]

ELC Evangelical Lutheran Synod is the new name for iirc , The older Norwegian Lutheran in America.

Evangelical Lutheran Synod = ELS.

 

[Tigger45]

Thx Exodus20 I did end up visiting Prince of Peace lutheran church because it is fairly close to where I live. My GF and I have been attending a LCMC which we found the congregation to be very friendly. Our main draw back is this later service is contemporary and we would prefer a more liturgical service. Is there any if at all differances between WELS and ELS? I read where the pastor faces the alter which I believe is closer to the ancient church service but not a big deal to me either way. Also I know they don't ordain woman but can women vote in church affairs?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Thx Exodus20 I did end up visiting Prince of Peace lutheran church because it is fairly close to where I live. My GF and I have been attending a LCMC which we found the congregation to be very friendly. Our main draw back is this later service is contemporary and we would prefer a more liturgical service. Is there any if at all differances between WELS and ELS? I read where the pastor faces the alter which I believe is closer to the ancient church service but not a big deal to me either way. Also I know they don't ordain woman but can women vote in church affairs?

WELS and ELS are in full fellowship with each other.

 

[Moses Medina]

WELS and ELS are in full fellowship with each other.

Confessional Lutherans need to join together and crush... well... others... darn you human stubborness!!! (Half joking)

 

[Exodus20]

Thx Exodus20 I did end up visiting Prince of Peace lutheran church because it is fairly close to where I live. My GF and I have been attending a LCMC which we found the congregation to be very friendly. Our main draw back is this later service is contemporary and we would prefer a more liturgical service. Is there any if at all differances between WELS and ELS? I read where the pastor faces the alter which I believe is closer to the ancient church service but not a big deal to me either way. Also I know they don't ordain woman but can women vote in church affairs?

Don't know the answers ...

[ actually I R a Baptist. ]

iirc - ( and this is 30 some years ago [ Yikes! ] ) at the WELS Church I got hitched at ,,, the communicant members ( Did & passed Catechism & received Holy Communion & joined that congregation ... Male and females could vote on congregational issues/problems/funding etc.. In my experience - usually churches ( different flavors/varietes ) with a joined membership roll will have active participation of the members. Many / most will have Elders & Deacons who are elected by the members to help the church run smoothly.

Your best bet is to go to both of the websites I mentioned P. O. P. in Taylorsville (WELS) , and Hope ( West Jordan Lutherans ( ELS ) and just start pointing and clicking and reading all the info tabs and links. I think the Hope Church in West Jordan will have a traditional conservative service.. may as well give them a try.

I think that the main difference is basically the Wisconsin (WELS) bunch had many German descendants , so as late as the 1930's ( iirc ) they required a catechist to learn German before taking Holy Communion. { No joke. } There are/were several more Germans that crossed over the Atlantic that did Norwegians.The ELS folks were mostly descended from Norwegians. Usually people/langauge groups tend to flock together.

Sadly - the group made up of folks with surnames like mine ( from the land of Volvos and Saabs ) - Can you say "Svenska" ? are what made 'elca' and they have gone liberal-extreme ! ) boo-hiss. Whenever liberalism creeps into a denomination ... the more conservative / Bible-believing folks wind-up leaving and looking for some church that is solid , not wishy-washy.

 

[cerette]

Sadly - the group made up of folks with surnames like mine ( from the land of Volvos and Saabs ) - Can you say "Svenska" ? are what made 'elca' and they have gone liberal-extreme ! ) .

I can say 'svenska' and I can speak it too