Well, it finally happened.

[LovebirdsFlying]

I was banned from a Facebook page for "making insensitive remarks."

What were those insensitive remarks?

That I am a Christian, and I believe Jesus Christ is the way to salvation.

Which garnered answers of, "I'm atheist, and I'm just as moral as you are," prompting my explanation that Christianity is not about us being more moral, but about Jesus Christ being our savior. Since the initial discussion was a conflict with my daughter, this led to, "What does religion have to do with things?"

My answer was that my daughter was the one bringing in religion. We're having her evicted from the mobile home she lives in, but we are the legal owners of, because she's had too many people living there unauthorized, lying to us about whether or not the park authorized it, and then lying to the park manager about them living there. Besides this there is drug activity, and goodness knows what else. We don't want that stuff happening there. She is of the opinion that this is only so we can boot out the pagan daughter and sell that home to our Christian daughter, but that isn't happening, and "pagan" has nothing to do with it.

But, "Shouldn't your relationship with your daughter be more important than your religion?"

My answer, frankly, no. Jesus Christ comes first above everyone else, even my husband. I would prefer to have a loving relationship with all of my family members, but if it's ever a conflict between the two, Jesus wins.

Then I quit the group.

Not realizing I had already quit, an admin of that page told me sorry, they have no choice but to ban me until I get professional help. What I had said was insensitive to atheists, pagans, wiccans, and any others who don't believe as I do.

So I guess it's true what they say, all paths are valid unless you're a Christian who believes only Jesus Christ can save from sin.

And I'm sure if anyone were to ask my husband how he feels about being only the second most important man in my life, and I would choose my relationship with Jesus Christ first over my relationship with him, my husband would say, "Great. That's exactly how I want it to be." I've told my younger daughter since then, that the same applies to her, and she didn't seem to mind it.

 

[katautumn]

(((((HUGS)))))) Always remember, narrow is the gate, sister. People will persecute and ridicule you for speaking the truth. The Gospel is offensive, because the truth hurts. When Christians speak to the depravity and helplessness of mankind outside of Christ, their pride causes them to lash out in anger.

As a side note, I am so sorry about the situation with your daughter. I cannot imagine how stressful that must be for you and your family. I will be praying that God will speak to her heart and that there can be peace and healing for all of you.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

LOL, younger daughter has just now read from her own Facebook page, "Better to be slapped with the truth, than kissed with a lie." I'm taking that as a confirmation from God.

Thanks for the prayers.

 

[Sketcher]

It's all about how you word things. The truth itself is offensive, we don't need to add the offense of our sin and shortcomings. If someone is offended because of the truth I say, then they can be offended until they get over it. If I added to the offense of that truth in any way, then that is my problem. The point is not to be careless. It's always hard to judge these situations without seeing the discussions involved. However, do not post the FB discussion without blurring out the names and pictures of everyone, even names mentioned in the comments. Ever.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Good counsel, Sketcher.

Interestingly, at the prayer meeting and choir practice tonight, my newly adopted spiritual Mom pulled me aside. I don't think I've mentioned her yet. She's not quite old enough to be my mother, but she's close. On Mother's Day when she said she didn't feel like much of a mother anymore, since everybody's grown and gone, I blurted out impulsively, "I need a new mother. Will you be my mother?" And she agreed to it and has been treating me like her daughter ever since. My own mother is not a healthy or Godly influence, but that's a whole other issue. Anyway we adopted each other, lightheartedly, but it might just be from God after all.

So my new Mom was praying for me (that's what all good moms do) and she tells me God put it on her heart I need to stop associating online with non-believers. Basically I need to stay around believers right now, which means even here on CF I need to confine my activity to interacting with believers. How that will affect my being on staff, we don't know yet. I may need to resign. Spiritual Mom says to pray about it. The reason for this is, I'm a wounded warrior. If a soldier is shot in battle, he doesn't keep fighting. He goes to the infirmary. I can't handle any more skeptics right now. The world throws one more clump of mud at me, and my response in trying to defend God's kingdom will do it more harm than good, simply (as Sketcher notes) because of the tone in which I put it.

I'd just had an emergency therapy session earlier today, before the prayer meeting. In that session it had been decided that I would suspend my Facebook account until further notice, because I'm very likely to be triggered by something a pagan/wiccan or atheist says to me.

So I did that.

But my spiritual Mom didn't know any of this. She didn't know about my daughter or Facebook, and she didn't know about the emergency therapy session. I take this to mean her counsel did come from God, and I should heed it.

Now the good news. Just before I deactivated my Facebook account, I had posted a mini-vent. I can't see it now, but it went something like this:

I'm tired of hearing, "I'm an atheist, and I'm just as moral as you are." Being a Christian is not about being more moral, because we are all sinners. It's about Jesus Christ dying for our sins. People want to pick apart my behavior and look for some little flaw they can point to for "proof" that I'm no better than they are, which I didn't claim to be anyway. Of course atheists and other non-Christians can be just as moral as I am. But good luck on the day of Judgment, if all you've got is your own morality.​

And amid the response, I noted one little comment shining through: "Truer words were never spoken."

It was my own brother. The same brother who used to tease me mercilessly when we were younger. The same brother who used to be the FIRST to point out any and all of my flaws, to tell me I'm no better just because I'm a Christian. He's been saved.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

This post has been edited. I took out parts that were no longer necessary, but I wanted to leave this part in because I think it's important.

Does Jesus want me to love Him more than I love my children? Yes, He does. Observe Matthew 10:35-37, "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

Bold for emphasis mine.

 

[Sketcher]

I will add to what I said earlier:

You also need to communicate the whole truth to people clearly. You can communicate to your daughter that what she is doing is wrong clearly. But have you also communicated to her that you love her clearly? Unbelievers especially need to see that. It is easy to be caught up in the mentality of good vs. evil at the expense of good ambassadorship. That doesn't mean we don't call out evil deeds when needed, but we need to do so in the manner and the measure which are needed - along with effectively communicating love to the person in the manner and measure which are needed.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I will add to what I said earlier:

You also need to communicate the whole truth to people clearly. You can communicate to your daughter that what she is doing is wrong clearly. But have you also communicated to her that you love her clearly?

I said it. I hope it was "communicated" to her. She had told me she would leave me alone so I could "hate" my pagan daughter in peace, and I replied, "I don't hate you at all. I love you, and that's why I want you to stop this nonsense, straighten up, and fly right." Sadly, I don't think she believes me.

 

[CrystalJael]

LoveBirdsFlying,

I am appalled at the words of AfterDoubt. Their knowledge of scripture is so far out of whack with reality that it is disgusting. Please ignore everything they said. The post came across to me as incredibly demeaning, and again I was personally appalled. Did your daughter (or her friends) whom you are at issue with, know of your posting on these forums? My first instinct is that this is her or one of them.

My second instinct is to tell you to pray for protection over your home and family. Being that you mentioned they are a lot of pagan, witchcraft, etc. this can be some real evil that these types play with because they are dumb enough to think they can control it or even that it is a joke. These people are no good and you did right by removing them from your facebook and your property (home).

I like that you are brave and truthful enough to admit that Jesus comes first for you. This is EXACTLY what is commanded of us. My husband and I had a talk a few months ago that we needed to dedicate ourselves further to Him, so that He is #1 and not #2 to each other. Good job walking the walking.

I am sorry to hear of your relationship with your one daughter and your mother. I only have one child and it is my nephew we got custody of just a few months back. So I can't really know the hurt you are experiencing with your daughter. I do know the hurt you are feeling with your mother though. My earthly mother is funny and beautiful, but is of the mind that good works will get her into Heaven. So we have had large fights over this. It's all quite draining and hurtful.

I am going to pray for your protection, your peace, and your family. God Bless.

 

[Touchemama]

LBF,
I don't know what your daughter has done or is doing. Name calling is not the answer because it just causes that person to run further away and then when she does hit rock bottom and needs help she will not feel she can come to you.
If she is selling drugs out of your house then I would use tough love by selling the house out from under her if need be. Just remember that her thinking is all fouled up because of her drug use.
Take a page out of Jesus book. He loved the Pharissee's but he certainly did not like what they were doing against the people and He let them know it. Tough Love.
You let her know you love her but do not like her actions and will not tolerate it and then you get down on your knees taking it to the Lord and let Him handle it. Here is something I found that helped me to get through my darkest days when raising kids.

Broken Dreams
As children bring their broken toys
With tears for us to mend,
I brought my broken dreams to God
Because He was my Friend.
But instead of leaving Him
In peace to work alone.
I hung around and tried to help
With ways that were my own.
At last I snatched them back and cried.
"How can You be so slow?"
"My child," He said, "What could I do?
You never let go."

I hope this will help you as it has me by reminding me to leave it alone and let Him work on it.
All I can say is to put her in God's hands and pray about her. I know this sounds simple but it isn't as I have been through it.
So far as facebook goes it is better not to respond to someones nasty remarks. I have told someone to believe what they want to believe but I know what I believe and let it go at that and not respond any more.
I am praying for you and your daughter.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Without divulging anything, I was privvy to these facebook conversations, and everything LBF said was delivered in love. Nothing more.

There WAS a lot of "I'm done replying to this conversation" from her daughter, and yet she still continued to reply in very hurtful ways.

Children are a blessing from God, but children are also supposed to obey and honor their parents. I don't expect my son to "obey" me, but I expect him to honor me. What happened here was not honoring a parent at all.

I continue to pray for both LBF and her daughter.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thank you, Beckie.

Yes, my daughter is 29 years old. She'll do what she wants. But my husband and I don't want certain things done from a home with his name attached to it. He could be held criminally liable.

I blame myself, actually, because when she was a teenager, she saw me make the same decisions she's making now. She saw me "take in strays" and let them sponge off the disability check I no longer qualify for, because my husband is gainfully employed and acts responsibly with his income. She saw me be her friend rather than her mother, even allowing her 20-something year old boyfriend to move in with us when she was 14, and sleep in her room because I believed them when they told me they weren't doing anything. For that I should have been shot. I was absolutely incompetent as her mother, and she is paying for it now. Come to think of it, my own boyfriend (later husband, not the one I'm married to now) was approved and on the lease, but her boyfriend who would otherwise have been homeless was living there unauthorized by the landlord. Sound familiar? My daughter is only doing now what I did then. I wish I could spare her from going down the same road.

ETA: Crystal, I also suspect that the posts you mention were made by one of my daughter's friends. I'm not worried about any "curse" they might put on me, though. Proverbs 26:2, KJV: "As the bird by wandering, as the swallow by flying, so the curse causeless shall not come." A curse has to be deserved, or else it won't stick. And my God is more powerful than anything they can throw at me.

And my earthly mother is like yours, "all paths are valid, all religions are true, just live a good life and you'll go to Heaven." She and my other brother are more likely to quote Deepak Chopra or Edgar Cayce than the Bible. We've had numerous discussions over that too.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

You do NOT deserve to be shot. We all make mistakes. We can only just hope that our children don't have to learn from the same ones. And when they do, it's NOT our fault, it's their own.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

^^ Well, Jesus got "shot" for me, praise His name, so I can go free and unpunished--unless there is no statute of limitations on child neglect, and I can still by this confession be held criminally liable for letting it happen 15 years ago. If that's the case, even though I'm off the hook with God, I believe I should still pay a debt to society if I owe one, just the same as a person caught stealing can be forgiven by God but still has to make restitution and face the earthly court system.

 

[Angeldove97]

Just throwing this in here that I fully support your love for the Lord over any family member or friend. I was willing to give up my own Mom when she clearly was standing in the way of what the Lord was calling me to do - I'm praising God now that He heard my prayers to work on her heart and she changed how she was behaving. That was one of the most difficult struggles I've been through but it reminded me of how much the Lord loves me and who my first love is, Him - not my parents, not my sister, not my husband - it is my Lord and Savior.

Non-believers will never understand that - without the Holy Spirit they won't ever really get why we're faithful believers or why the Lord's love for us is what keeps us going. And no real words can come from our mouths to explain that to them either.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thank you for the support I'm getting here.

To clear up any confusion there happens to be: In addition to the Facebook conversation on my own page, which Beckie (PreachersWife) saw, there was another one in a private support group for survivors of abusive mothers, which Beckie didn't see because it was a closed page. Essentially it was more of the same, except that my daughter didn't participate. I got "your daughter should be more important to you than your religion" and "I'm an atheist but I'm just as moral as you are" there too, on top of what was on my own page.

Also, I was taken to task in that group for quoting Scripture in the conversation with my daughter. If the other person doesn't believe the same way you do, I was told, then quoting Scripture to back up your position is arrogant and in-your-face. "I'm right and you're wrong, my God says so, nyah, nyah!" Well, when Jesus was in the wilderness, tempted by the devil, He kept answering with, "It is written..." so I was doing that too.

Specifically, that group is for survivors of narcissistic mothers. This type of parenting isn't about teaching your child right from wrong so that they will grow up to be healthy, productive members of society. If you're a narcissistic mother, your motherhood serves one purpose only, and that's to have someone on this planet that you're better and bigger than, and who has to do everything you say. (Think Joan Crawford of "Mommie Dearest.") Well, when I stated that Jesus Christ comes first before anybody else, including my family, the members of that group began to accuse me of *being* that kind of mother. That's why I quit, followed immediately by that message that I was to be banned for my "insensitive remarks."

 

[ActionJ]

I was banned from a Facebook page for "making insensitive remarks."

What were those insensitive remarks?

That I am a Christian, and I believe Jesus Christ is the way to salvation.

Which garnered answers of, "I'm atheist, and I'm just as moral as you are," prompting my explanation that Christianity is not about us being more moral, but about Jesus Christ being our savior. Since the initial discussion was a conflict with my daughter, this led to, "What does religion have to do with things?"

My answer was that my daughter was the one bringing in religion. We're having her evicted from the mobile home she lives in, but we are the legal owners of, because she's had too many people living there unauthorized, lying to us about whether or not the park authorized it, and then lying to the park manager about them living there. Besides this there is drug activity, and goodness knows what else. We don't want that stuff happening there. She is of the opinion that this is only so we can boot out the pagan daughter and sell that home to our Christian daughter, but that isn't happening, and "pagan" has nothing to do with it.

But, "Shouldn't your relationship with your daughter be more important than your religion?"

My answer, frankly, no. Jesus Christ comes first above everyone else, even my husband. I would prefer to have a loving relationship with all of my family members, but if it's ever a conflict between the two, Jesus wins.

Then I quit the group.

Not realizing I had already quit, an admin of that page told me sorry, they have no choice but to ban me until I get professional help. What I had said was insensitive to atheists, pagans, wiccans, and any others who don't believe as I do.

So I guess it's true what they say, all paths are valid unless you're a Christian who believes only Jesus Christ can save from sin.

And I'm sure if anyone were to ask my husband how he feels about being only the second most important man in my life, and I would choose my relationship with Jesus Christ first over my relationship with him, my husband would say, "Great. That's exactly how I want it to be." I've told my younger daughter since then, that the same applies to her, and she didn't seem to mind it.

Who needs Facebook anyway? I cancelled my membership several years ago. Way too much gossip and empty chatter in the first place!!

The Bible warns us of a time when good would be called evil and vice versa:

Isaiah 5:20-23, "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!"

Christians shall be persecuted and "spat upon" in the final days. We'll be looked down upon and hated for Christ's namesake. If and when we find ourselves in that position then we can consider ourselves blessed indeed.

Mark 13:13, "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Well said, sir. Isaiah 5:20 is one of the verses I quoted in our conversation, but not the whole passage, just the one verse. The others fit in nicely too.

By the way, I want to document something. My daughter has just called here. If my husband doesn't return her bicycle to her, she will press charges and get a restraining order on him for the way he has been circling around the mobile home, and then broke in, and has stolen her property. I'm thinking her reasoning is, if her bicycle is missing, then she probably thinks since he bought it for her in the first place, he might have taken it back and reclaimed it to punish her. There's only one thing wrong with that theory. He didn't take it, and he doesn't have it.

Breaking in might refer to him delivering the notice to vacate. When she didn't answer the door, the park manager told him since he was the legal owner of the mobile home, he had the right to enter, so he did. That turned out to be legally erroneous, but that will be sorted out. As for circling around her home, not happening. It so happens it's on the route between his work and our house. He drives by there a couple of times a day, but he doesn't enter park property. He's only going to and from work.

Of course, nobody can give legal counsel here on CF, qualified or not, but I'm pretty sure no judge is going to grant a restraining order saying Mike has to stay away from a mobile home he owns himself. I think my daughter is cracking up.

 

[CrystalJael]

Jeez you poor thing. Praying for you and your family!

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thank you. We need all the prayers we can get.

I was thinking about the irony of the situation. My daughter's vitriol against me is primarily that she can't stand my husband. I'll admit he can be rigid and insensitive sometimes, but we've had a few discussions, including this afternoon when I felt I should tell him, "Let's use the word bipolar, not lunatic." So he's learning to be a bit more understanding, and in return he is teaching me about standing up for my beliefs.

She can't stand him mostly because he is a conservative Christian who calls sin what it is and won't look the other way when those things happen on his property. He won't have her friends visiting here, where we live, and rightly so because we've had money and food disappear when they come over. They feel entitled to it. We have more than they do, and as Christians, we should have freely offered it anyway, or else we're not practicing our faith. Nor do they see a need to be careful not to damage property. The loss of some object won't make us any worse off than they are; what are we whining about? Make them pay to replace it? Gasp! That's just greedy. Look at us, middle-class and all, demanding payment from some poor urchin who doesn't have anything. So, he told her she couldn't bring her friends over here anymore. Wow, what a hypocrite that makes him. After all, Jesus hung out with thieves and prostitutes, so how can we say we're too good to have her friends in our house? Yeah, but Jesus wasn't telling the thieves and prostitutes it's OK to keep on stealing and hooking, right? He was telling them, sin no more.

The irony? Along with my mother and my sister, I taught my daughters by example to choose dysfunctional men. Most of the men in our lives have been alcoholics and/or drug addicts, or had other mental illnesses. They were abusive verbally, physically, and some even sexually. Criminal records are not uncommon among them. Few of them are capable of providing a stable income or a loving home.

I finally break that pattern and marry a Godly, stable man who does everything a husband should do. And for the resulting collapse of the relationship with my daughter, she blames HIM.