We fiddle while the world burns....

reddogs · Feb 14, 2007

I was listening to the morning news, and heard of rampaging shooter who killed five people in a Salt Lake City mall.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/13/officer.utah/index.html

Everywhere you turn there are wars, rumors of wars, destruction and death, we see it in headlines ' Bloodiest days for civilians ' as evil comes out in the open and the world tears itself apart, it struck me the time has come for what Jesus said that many would "turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other", the end is here right before us and we fiddle with this distraction from our work of spreading the gospel.

Why are we so eager to fight among ourselves, if some Adventist want to go to their spiritual deaths, Christ made clear we must continue spreading the truth with the living: "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God." So when so many have not been given the truth and wait in faith, we must set aside those of who have known the truth and turned away, and give the healing of Gods truth to those with faith who desperately wait:

5When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6"Lord," he said, "my servant lies at home paralyzed and in terrible suffering."
7Jesus said to him, "I will go and heal him."
8The centurion replied, "Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, 'Go,' and he goes; and that one, 'Come,' and he comes. I say to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it." 10When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, "I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 8:3-12

Instead of spreading the gospel to others, Adventist tend to set up a sandbox to defend and bury the truth deep in the sand and fight about it among themselves, this is not spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We have all these truths, why is it we "seem" to hold back from teaching and sharing them from other denominations. I sense that "many" want only to get along with other denominations and be loving but keep any truth from them that they might not have received yet and are not following, or might disagree with. Is it better to just make other denominations feel good and keep the truth from them, or should we share what we have. I am deeply troubled by the infighting among Adventist here online and elsewhere, yet no one bothers to share any light to other believers from other churches, we definely are "hiding it under a bushel" or "fighting in the sandbox" as far as I can see...we'd rather fight among ourselves than follow God and what Jesus Christ have given us to do...

So my charge to you is this, we should post all these truths that we have on the GT and other open forums for other denomiations to share, let those who choose to turn away from truth continue on their path, that is for the Lord to decide. We fight the evil one for those seeking truth, not those that are already spiritualy dead. We must follow what we have been given to spread the gospel, do not let those who turn away distract you, continue on the mission we have been given by Jesus Christ to spread his truth and give the Gospel to all nations...

Do not let anything stop you, or distract you, surge forward as God has won the battle for us through his Son Jesus Christ, do not hesitate to ignore pockets of apostacy on your flanks as they have rejected the Holy Spirit, help the living seeking truth, and teach and encourage others as we go forward to reach the kingdom of God...

10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:10-14

tall73 · Feb 14, 2007

You might also want to check out "Questions by Non-Christians"

http://www.christianforums.com/f74-questions-by-non-christians.html

reddogs · Feb 14, 2007

I am thinking more comprehensively, instead of one person going and answering one or a few other persons questions. We pick a truth every month, and write up a "paper", post it in the Adventist forum to see if any issues, then post in the GT or the "questions by Non-Christians" forum and then monitor it for a week to help with any questions.

I know we have some small peripheral issues that are in disagreement so we keep it to the scriptural based truths on the "paper", only discussing outside material such as Ellen White views within our own Adventist forum. Each month we could have a new "paper", posted and supported by Adventist, working together to the advancement of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and learning ourselves as we see the Gods truth explained from the scriptures.

Before I studied them, the Sabbath truth was just a "word" with no meaning to me, the same with the study on the state of the dead. I am amazed at what I learned just from those and the others I have worked on, and I think we all should study and post what we have learned, so we can bring it and teach it to other denominations and forums in a systemactic way.

Eila · Feb 14, 2007

reddogs said:
Each month we could have a new "paper", posted and supported by Adventist, working together to the advancement of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and learning ourselves as we see the Gods truth explained from the scriptures... I think we all should study and post what we have learned, so we can bring it and teach it to other denominations and forums in a systemactic way.

You don't think other denominations have the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

reddogs · Feb 14, 2007

Read what is written, "scriptural based truths" not traditions of man, or false beliefs based on creeds, or dogma, or pagan beliefs, nothing added or taken out as some do to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.......

tall73 · Feb 14, 2007

Reddogs, the questions by non-Christians section is a place to answer questions from seekers. It is the best place to help with evangelism on this site.

I don't have a problem with comparing notes on truth with other Christians either mind you. But you seem interested in the burning world. And they are there asking questions.

reddogs · Feb 14, 2007

Do you feel that churches of the Reformation should be left out from advancing their knowledge of Gods truth as they only have one foot in the 'fire'? What about the Catholic Church and the Greek Orthodox, shall we leave them in the dark on present truth we have uncovered? Remember, Jesus Christ corrected the spiritual leaders of Isreal and told them directly they were wrong in following "tradition" and not Gods truth.......

tall73 · Feb 14, 2007

reddogs said:
Do you feel that churches of the Reformation should be left out from advancing their knowledge of Gods truth as they only have one foot in the 'fire'? What about the Catholic Church and the Greek Orthodox, shall we leave them in the dark on present truth we have uncovered? Remember, Jesus Christ corrected the spiritual leaders of Isreal and told them directly they were wrong in following "tradition" and not Gods truth.......

Those posts of mine that you are copy and pasting in the death thread were drawn up by me specifically for use in GT. I suggested that you reach out to non-Christians. Did I say not to discuss in GT?

But I think your whole approach will be fruitless as you are doing it.

Who is it that are in Babylon? They are God's people. They are sincerely following Him in all they know. THEY are your audience. And if we are truly correct about our interpretation they will hear it. And if we cannot show that we are correct from the Scriptures, why should they hear it? But if God calls them His people, why are you suggesting they are not? Those who are His people will hear His voice. Remember when you speak that you are speaking to God's people. Be dierct, but be kind. And don't think that they are any less holy than you. God is not ashamed of them.

tall73 · Feb 14, 2007

One more thing, perhaps more directly to your point.

Are not those who have left the Adventist church still worth our efforts to try to win them back?

reddogs · Feb 15, 2007

tall73 said:
Those posts of mine that you are copy and pasting in the death thread were drawn up by me specifically for use in GT. I suggested that you reach out to non-Christians. Did I say not to discuss in GT?

But I think your whole approach will be fruitless as you are doing it.

Who is it that are in Babylon? They are God's people. They are sincerely following Him in all they know. THEY are your audience. And if we are truly correct about our interpretation they will hear it. And if we cannot show that we are correct from the Scriptures, why should they hear it? But if God calls them His people, why are you suggesting they are not? Those who are His people will hear His voice. Remember when you speak that you are speaking to God's people. Be dierct, but be kind. And don't think that they are any less holy than you. God is not ashamed of them.

The other parts are your opinion so I will leave them alone as I have tried to carefully answer in GT and not give them reason to feel a lesser christian or any less holy. But that is neither here nor there as I know I have room for improvement in handling that, but I do not agree with your main contention that "But I think your whole approach will be fruitless as you are doing it." If there is a better way, then share it and I will listen and learn, if you think you would be better to answer questions then tell me and I humbly will pass over the studies I have begun for you to use in posting, if however, you think we cannot study the scriptures and properly understand or comprehend His truth then we have a problem. Who then can follow what Christ has given if it is not understandable even to the most simple Christian, I dont think the concepts in the scripture were only for the theologians or intellectuals to be able to discern as I fully believe thats why the Holy Spirit is there to help those who ask in prayer. I feel Jesus meant for His Gospel to be spread even among those who were considered "Gods people" or the Jews back then, so I dont see how we leave out those of "Gods people" in Babylon.

If you want to answer me privately and we can discuss it by email that would be fine.

Red

(As for those that have left the Adventist church that is not my mission, they have seen the truth and have left it of there own freewill. God will send someone to minister to them with a lighter touch than mine, just as David refrained from building the Temple as he was a man of war, and Solomon was given the task.)

God will never stop loving them and still tries to save them, because in 2 Peter 3:9 it says, “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

However, it is a very hard task as the scriptures makes clear:
2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

freeindeed2 · Feb 15, 2007

reddogs said:
(As for those that have left the Adventist church that is not my mission, they have seen the truth and have left...

If you had stopped your sentence here I would agree with you. Of course you didn't.

I understand your thoughts on this matter though. I would have probably said something similar a few years ago because I believed that the SDA church was the 'remnant' one-true church. I believed that the SDA message was "THE TRUTH".

reddogs said:
...it of there own freewill. God will send someone to minister to them with a lighter touch than mine, just as David refrained from building the Temple as he was a man of war, and Solomon was given the task.)

Other Christians who are not SDA are not LOST. They are not a "lower class" of Christians. They are ministering to others because the Holy Spirit lives in them (God himself). Why would you or other SDA's need to minister to them?

Do you really know many people who are Christians but not SDA? Do you know very many former SDA's? I was surprised to find most of them on fire for Christ and more active in their churches than when they were SDA. When you talk to them you'll find that they have experienced huge growth since selling out to Christ alone. I always taught that people that leave the SDA church really had no place to land, that they didn't join other churches (because of the Sabbath), that most didn't have much to do with going to church anymore, and that they knew their way back to the truth. That mentality is built on a myth though. It's not true. And most people do not leave SDAism because they've been hurt either. Almost everyone I know who left did so over theological problems with SDA doctrines. According to SDA's 2005 statistics, 1.5 million people have left the church over the past 5 years.

reddogs said:
God will never stop loving them and still tries to save them, because in 2 Peter 3:9 it says, “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

Why do you say that non-SDA Christians are lost and in need of being saved?

"I assure you, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life." Jn 5:24

reddogs said:
However, it is a very hard task as the scriptures makes clear:
2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

This is NOT referring to those who have the Holy Spirit (God himself) living in them. Those abiding in Christ are not 'entangled' in the corruption of the world.

Do you know how this mindset sounds to the larger Christian world? It comes across as arrogance because it sounds like SDA's see themselves as better than other Christians. The fact is, at the cross the ground is level and we are all sinners in need of a Savior. There is no status and ALL who believe in the Son for their salvation ARE saved!

God bless!

reddogs · Feb 15, 2007

Keep trying, but as long as you just want to twist what I say and draw a confrontation I will not be drawn in as Christ set the example before the high priest, and there is nothing I can say to enlighten you......

Eila · Feb 15, 2007

reddogs said:
(As for those that have left the Adventist church that is not my mission, they have seen the truth and have left it of there own freewill. God will send someone to minister to them with a lighter touch than mine, just as David refrained from building the Temple as he was a man of war, and Solomon was given the task.)

God will never stop loving them and still tries to save them, because in 2 Peter 3:9 it says, The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

However, it is a very hard task as the scriptures makes clear:
2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

So if someone leaves your church he is lost??? So when someone leaves your church you believe he leaves Jesus??? What part of your doctrine does someone need to believe to be saved?

freeindeed2 · Feb 15, 2007

reddogs said:
Keep trying, but as long as you just want to twist what I say and draw a confrontation I will not be drawn in as Christ set the example before the high priest, and there is nothing I can say to enlighten you......

I've asked questions based on the accusations in your posts toward former SDA's. You have chosen to not answer any of those questions, yet you keep making further comments and accusations. Do you expect to promote lies about others without them calling you on it? (BTW, lying is breaking one of the 10 too!)

catlover · Feb 15, 2007

Eila said:
So if someone leaves your church he is lost??? So when someone leaves your church you believe he leaves Jesus??? What part of your doctrine does someone need to believe to be saved?

I am not a Seventh Day Adventist but as their name implies, they believe in keeping The Sabbath Day holy.

Sophia7 · Feb 15, 2007

Closed at the request of the original poster.

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