We are getting too tolerant.....

[JimfromOhio]

I was about to response this to a post of one thread but after writing and reading, I decided to post this in a new thread.

EACH of us are responsible to discipline not only our own lives but also the lives of those around us including our spiritual leaders. After examining our own hearts, we must be alert for sin in the Christian community. Ephesians 5:11 says, "Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but, rather reprove them." First Timothy 5:2O says, "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." In 1 Timothy 1:20 Paul mentions Hymenaeus and Alexander by name, saying they were "delivered unto Satan, that they [might] learn not to blaspheme." In Titus 1:13 Paul exhorts Titus to rebuke unruly believers "sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." In Luke 17:3 Jesus says, "If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him."

The Christian community must examine sin because purity is basic to evangelism and reaching out to outsiders who don't know Christ.

Are we so eager to be tolerant?

Think about this: If Christians lower the expectations on their leadership, they will be much more comfortable with their own sin. With lower moral standards, Christians becomes more tolerant of sin and less tolerant of holiness.

Satan is fighting very hard to lower our holiness standards in Churches and Christian community. In the Old Testament, whenever the living God revealed Himself in various ways, those who saw were in terror and amazement and they saw themselves as guilty and unclean by comparison. Today, there are Christians who are not really in knowledge of God's holiness that they have become spiritually ignorant to receive or to appreciate sound doctrine. Many people are always looking for something to give them a lift that have no relation whatsoever to true doctrines.

Holiness is the balance between each of us and the law of God as expressed in Jesus Christ within us spiritually. We need to guard our minds, emotions, and wills, "bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" (2 Cor. 10:5). Many Christians today rationalize away the demands (liberalism) which makes comfortable with their sins in their lives including their leaders' sins. When we trivialize the Scriptures doctrinally, we reduce God’s Commandments of our Christian lives to tolerancism. Tolerance means allowable deviation from higher standards which leads to hidden policy of permitting forms of behaviors not officially established.

After seeing threads and posts, I am disappointed how many (especially from one group) who are really so self-centered that they are willing to forsake God-centered doctrines and holiness. Today, Christians have lower the essentials of Christian life and practice of Christian doctrines. I am reminded of this verse: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. When a Christian have a selfish heart of greed is their master, not God's holiness. Our motives in our Christian lives should be both holy and genuine. Scriptures states that my own interests before God is sin, in God's point of view. The Word of God exposed the sin of self-interest and that I am to live God-centered and others-centered life.

Knowing your true enemy is important and that enemy is Satan who can easily become the tool of Satan, who is called the accuser who will find ways to lower God's holiness standards among Christians. To me, this is sad that this is really happening in my lifetime as the Bible said it would happen. The time is getting closer.

 

[ANM29]

What makes someone tolerant of a leaders sin? Not talking and gossiping about it.

Since when did any of us become the Holy Spirit that is responsible for convicting one of their sins and changing their hearts.

It is not my job to hold someone accountable for their sins that I don't even know personally. It is even more not my job to beat the hell out of a subject that none of us has any control over. It is our job as Christians, lest we fall, is to pray for and pick up our brothers when they fall. If we are talking about Todd, I will go ahead and say, what he is dealing with, GOD WILL DEAL WITH HIM, NOT MAN!

What we can do is learn from him in whatever errors he has made, pray for him, and ask God to show us our own BEAMS in our own eyes so that we can die to our own flesh lest something like this happens to us..Because it surely can. None of us has arrived.

He has been held accountable by those around him and God. The whole world sees his fall, what more does he need? The rest of CF actually knocking on his door to beat him?

We need to be held accountable and grieved in our own spirits to sit here and call ourselves Spirit-filled and bashing the hell out of this man like we are sitting in God's place.

Each one of you men on here, could be in his position right now. How many of you have had affairs or came close to them? Or had emotional affairs or looked at a woman with lust in your eye? Or had impure thoughts of another woman/man? Or masturbated thinking about another woman? Or was tempted to, so on and so on.

These self-righteous attitudes on this board just stink to death.

As soon as something happens to someone here, "Pray for me" threads are open. Where are the pray for me threads for TODD?

HYPOCRITES!!!!

 

[ANM29]

If anything this is showing how the Body of Christ ( each believer ) in these 'end days' needs to make sure they are not lukewarm in the mouth of God themselves. If anything, this is an example for the rest of us to check our own selves, it is not in any way an indicator to jump and beat the hell out of anybody verbally.

The whole entire Body of Christ is lukewarm and so far off from what God wants for any of us. This should be maybe just one small indicator to start seeking the Kingdom of God and his righteousness and what God would have us to be and do in these last days. There are plenty of more 'signs' these are the last days, and it surely does not end or start with Todd Bentley.

 

[probinson]

What makes someone tolerant of a leaders sin? Not talking and gossiping about it.

Since when did any of us become the Holy Spirit that is responsible for convicting one of their sins and changing their hearts.

It is not my job to hold someone accountable for their sins that I don't even know personally. It is even more not my job to beat the hell out of a subject that none of us has any control over. It is our job as Christians, lest we fall, is to pray for and pick up our brothers when they fall. If we are talking about Todd, I will go ahead and say, what he is dealing with, GOD WILL DEAL WITH HIM, NOT MAN!

What we can do is learn from him in whatever errors he has made, pray for him, and ask God to show us our own BEAMS in our own eyes so that we can die to our own flesh lest something like this happens to us..Because it surely can. None of us has arrived.

He has been held accountable by those around him and God. The whole world sees his fall, what more does he need? The rest of CF actually knocking on his door to beat him?

We need to be held accountable and grieved in our own spirits to sit here and call ourselves Spirit-filled and bashing the hell out of this man like we are sitting in God's place.

Each one of you men on here, could be in his position right now. How many of you have had affairs or came close to them? Or had emotional affairs or looked at a woman with lust in your eye? Or had impure thoughts of another woman/man? Or masturbated thinking about another woman? Or was tempted to, so on and so on.

These self-righteous attitudes on this board just stink to death.

As soon as something happens to someone here, "Pray for me" threads are open. Where are the pray for me threads for TODD?

HYPOCRITES!!!!

I don't often get a chance to say that I agree with you, but this post is spot on!

And actually, I think it's good that we don't share the same beliefs, because maybe it will help us start to put to rest these ridiculous claims that only "one group" of Christians feels this way.

Religious hypocrisy stinks no matter what "group" you're in.

 

[Tamara224]

Think about this: If Christians lower the expectations on their leadership, they will be much more comfortable with their own sin. With lower moral standards, Christians becomes more tolerant of sin and less tolerant of holiness.

Yeah, I think this is the root of tolerance. "I'll tolerate your sin and you tolerate mine."

I think that all of us are prone to it at times.... it's carnal human nature. We all want to hide in the dark together.

But how can we be a light to the world if we are ourselves hiding in darkness?

19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God." (John 3:19-21).
​

 

[~RENEE~]

Yes we are way to tolerant of those that claim evil is good and good is evil. Yes we are way to telerant of those that attribute Godily things to Satan and Satanic things to God.

 

[ANM29]

I don't often get a chance to say that I agree with you, but this post is spot on!

And actually, I think it's good that we don't share the same beliefs, because maybe it will help us start to put to rest these ridiculous claims that only "one group" of Christians feels this way.

Religious hypocrisy stinks no matter what "group" you're in.

It just stinks.

I don't know who told us that God has placed us in positions to put someone in their place when they sin. I thought that was the job of the Holy Spirit. You can remove the person from their position, yeah, but that is about all you can do. The Holy Spirit does the actual convicting of the heart. The rest is between God and that person to get things right.

He is not in his position anymore, I am assuming. So, what is left? An actual physical stoning of the man. As we use the disguise of "not tolerating sin in another as being a sign of somebody who knows the Lord" to justify our stone throwing. Give me a break...

 

[ANM29]

BTW, I would like to add. The first time I ever heard of Todd Bentley was not long ago. Never watched an entire taping of the revival. Maybe watched about 10 to 15 minutes 3 times to be exact. Have not kept up with the revival, anything I did know I mostly got from third hand sources. So, you know what. This is not about me knowing him or taking up for him, I don't know him and never him to say I know anything about him. Don't read up on him either except from what I see around here.

Had it been anybody else, I would say the exact same thing.

( Whew..The world is watching to see not only Todd, but how we so-called Christians are treating Todd as well. No wonder people don't want anything to do with the 'church', can't blame them...It it has more to do with hypocrisy, than falling preachers Ok, I'm done...I think.....)

 

[Tamara224]

Why is Todd Bentley being drug into this thread?

The OP made no mention of him.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Yeah, I think this is the root of tolerance. "I'll tolerate your sin and you tolerate mine."

I think that all of us are prone to it at times.... it's carnal human nature. We all want to hide in the dark together.

But how can we be a light to the world if we are ourselves hiding in darkness?

19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God." (John 3:19-21).
​

Yes, I agree and I want to add that in spiritual leadership, we have to understand that they are to follow Christ examples as "shepherds". Pastors are sinners like us however, they have to live in higher standards than regular Christians because they are our spiritual leaders. We do not expect our pastors to be the only ones who are acting like-Christ and live in a blameless life. ALL members of the Church must live in a blameless life, be the shining light to the lost and bring them to Christ. The pastor should be known as a man of Christian character and conduct and there should be demonstrable evidence of his mature, Christian character. God is obviously concerned with the character of the men put in the office of pastor.

Remember, it was our sin that sent Christ to the cross, it was for our sin that He died. And when WE acknowledge the Holy Spirit's conviction, we asked Him to forgive our sin, we asked Him to become our Lord and your Savior and our Redeemer.

We became Christians when we repented of our sin and we embraced our forgiveness and His salvation. To do that and then carry on in a sinful manner willfully is to treat lightly the sacrifice of Christ. It’s a measure of hypocrisy to do that. Christ who died in our place to deal with our sin, to confess Him as Lord and tell Him that we want to obey Him and live for Him, and then to hold on to sin is indeed a duplicity that speaks of hypocrisy and hypocrisy is a sin, of course, that dishonors God.

 

[ANM29]

Why is Todd Bentley being drug into this thread?

The OP made no mention of him.

Just in case he was talking about him. I don't know what other leaders are in the spotlight right now. If he was not talking about him, what I said still needed to be said either way.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Why is Todd Bentley being drug into this thread?

The OP made no mention of him.

You are right, I didn't mention anyone by name.

I was trying to point out to all spiritual-leaders who fell in the past and may fall one day in near future. Also, for those who try to protect those spiritual leaders (or leaders in general) with reasonings. We need to look at this carefully.

 

[Tamara224]

Just in case he was talking about him. I don't know what other leaders are in the spotlight right now. If he was not talking about him, what I said still needed to be said either way.

Well, it seems to me that it isn't only one side of the "debate" who wants to keep gossipping about TB. Or, at least, gossipping about the so-called gossippers.

 

[ANM29]

Well, it seems to me that it isn't only one side of the "debate" who wants to keep gossipping about TB. Or, at least, gossipping about the so-called gossippers.

lol!

I am not gossiping nor will I get into a personal debate about who is gossiping about gossipers. I made my point, and I am pretty much done. If the shoe fits, wear it. I guess that can go over with all the post in this thread huh...?

Enough is enough, if that is gossip...So, be it.....

 

[Tamara224]

lol!

I am not gossiping nor will I get into a personal debate about who is gossiping about gossipers. I made my point, and I am pretty much done. If the shoe fits, wear it. I guess that can go over with all the post in this thread huh...?

Enough is enough, if that is gossip...So, be it.....

Hey ANM, that's cool. We won't fight about it. We'll both wear shoes that fit.

Personally, I'm getting sick of it all and when I read Jim's thread I thought it was constructive... until I saw TB getting dragged into it again.

So... if you don't think we should be talking about him, then quit talking about him.

 

[ANM29]

Hey ANM, that's cool. We won't fight about it. We'll both wear shoes that fit.

Personally, I'm getting sick of it all and when I read Jim's thread I thought it was constructive... until I saw TB getting dragged into it again.

So... if you don't think we should be talking about him, then quit talking about him.

I am sure many see the difference..

 

[jeolmstead]

I think at times we are too tolerant. Other times I think we desire to address an issue, but end up doing something else.

I believe this is the pattern to follow in dealing with any believer’s stumbling (including leaders: )


Mat 18:15

.1-“If your brother sins against you go and show him his fault, just between the two of you”

.2- “16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.”

.3-“ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church;

.4- “and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.”

This pattern limits collateral damage as much as possible. The scope (and consequences) widen at each step of the process. The ultimate goal is restoration.

If I am not part of the problem and not part of the solution I do not need to be involved.

John O.

 

[geetrue]

Since when did any of us become the Holy Spirit that is responsible for convicting one of their sins and changing their hearts.

It is not my job to hold someone accountable for their sins that I don't even know personally. It is even more not my job to beat the hell out of a subject that none of us has any control over. It is our job as Christians, lest we fall, is to pray for and pick up our brothers when they fall. If we are talking about Todd, I will go ahead and say, what he is dealing with, GOD WILL DEAL WITH HIM, NOT MAN!

Not true the word of God says that we are to admoish one another in several places ... plus we are to confess our faluts to one another in the book of St James.

Each one of you men on here, could be in his position right now. How many of you have had affairs or came close to them? Or had emotional affairs or looked at a woman with lust in your eye? Or had impure thoughts of another woman/man? Or masturbated thinking about another woman? Or was tempted to, so on and so on.

Please pray for me I sinned doing one of those things last week ,
but give me a break lady I'm not a hypocrite ...

 

[ARBITER01]

Apart from talking about hirelings, hypocrits, being drunk in the blood of the saints, and the harlot church,... let's get back to the subject,...

We became Christians when we repented of our sin and we embraced our forgiveness and His salvation. To do that and then carry on in a sinful manner willfully is to treat lightly the sacrifice of Christ. It’s a measure of hypocrisy to do that. Christ who died in our place to deal with our sin, to confess Him as Lord and tell Him that we want to obey Him and live for Him, and then to hold on to sin is indeed a duplicity that speaks of hypocrisy and hypocrisy is a sin, of course, that dishonors God.

Sanctification is a very overlooked aspect of leadership in the body of Christ. It follows our justification, but there are people who think that their "self-life" was placed on that cross with their sin also, and scripture never depicts that.

Our standards need to be raised, and there is only one listed in the bible, the one that Jesus gave us, and no one is going to attain it if they refuse to put the work into being sanctified.

 

[Angel*Eyes]

( Whew..The world is watching to see not only Todd, but how we so-called Christians are treating Todd as well. No wonder people don't want anything to do with the 'church', can't blame them.

I agree.