Was the Book of Revelation a Christian book?

[Duvduv]

I have read parts of it, and read ABOUT it. Nevertheless I still cannot get my head around the fine theological distinctions of denominations arising from its content. Much of discussion about it reminds me of Midrash or Kabbalah, and is similar to so-called kabbalistic or Hassidic apocalyptic theories about the coming of the Messiah son of Joseph, Messiah son of David, preceded by Elijah - when and how and who, which is all rather confusing even to many Jews.
And of course it seems to be clear that in its original form Revelation was not a Christian book at all, but belonged to some pietistic Jewish sect in its original form.

 

[☦Marius☦]

I have read parts of it, and read ABOUT it. Nevertheless I still cannot get my head around the fine theological distinctions of denominations arising from its content. Much of discussion about it reminds me of Midrash or Kabbalah, and is similar to so-called kabbalistic or Hassidic apocalyptic theories about the coming of the Messiah son of Joseph, Messiah son of David, preceded by Elijah - when and how and who, which is all rather confusing even to many Jews.
And of course it seems to be clear that in its original form Revelation was not a Christian book at all, but belonged to some pietistic Jewish sect in its original form.

I've also wondered this, as well as the early church. It look centuries for it to be canonized long after the other books, and even then the Church approached it with utmost caution, unlike today where it seems to be the majority of what people from evangelical communities discuss.

 

[rockytopva]

I believe that Revelation foretells future events, including what would be the future of the Christian church...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

 

[☦Marius☦]

I believe that Revelation foretells future events, including what would be the future of the Christian church...


Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Interesting.

 

[rockytopva]

I am also wondering if we are at what Christ called the, "fullness of the gentiles"

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. - Luke 21:24

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. - Romans 11:25

I believe that the Laodicean church age is coming to a close, the fullness of the times of the Gentiles is at hand, and God the Father will once again eye Israel favorably.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

I have read parts of it, and read ABOUT it. Nevertheless I still cannot get my head around the fine theological distinctions of denominations arising from its content. Much of discussion about it reminds me of Midrash or Kabbalah, and is similar to so-called kabbalistic or Hassidic apocalyptic theories about the coming of the Messiah son of Joseph, Messiah son of David, preceded by Elijah - when and how and who, which is all rather confusing even to many Jews.
And of course it seems to be clear that in its original form Revelation was not a Christian book at all, but belonged to some pietistic Jewish sect in its original form.

Revelation actually goes with the Pre Christian Book of Enoch very closely in it's descriptions and themes.

 

[dreadnought]

I have read parts of it, and read ABOUT it. Nevertheless I still cannot get my head around the fine theological distinctions of denominations arising from its content. Much of discussion about it reminds me of Midrash or Kabbalah, and is similar to so-called kabbalistic or Hassidic apocalyptic theories about the coming of the Messiah son of Joseph, Messiah son of David, preceded by Elijah - when and how and who, which is all rather confusing even to many Jews.
And of course it seems to be clear that in its original form Revelation was not a Christian book at all, but belonged to some pietistic Jewish sect in its original form.

I believe it was written by a Christian and would have to assume it was written for Christians.

 

[mark kennedy]

Revelations has less manuscripts then just about any of the other books, makes it kind of suspect. It almost didn't make it in for a number of reasons, one of which is it's written in crude Greek, unlike the Gospel of John and the epistles. It was written so much later then the other books, some say as late as 80-90 AD. Even among super conservative evangelicals this raises some eyebrows, when you stop to consider the bulk of the New Testament was written between 60-70 AD.

Yes it belongs in there but I can understand how it raises some rather thorny questions.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Revelation actually goes with the Pre Christian Book of Enoch very closely in it's descriptions and themes.

Both of which are latched on to by occultists and gnostics.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Both of which are latched on to by occultists and gnostics.

Revelation ?

 

[☦Marius☦]

The only reason I consider the book of Enoch to be possible is because of it's description of the nephalim. I think this explains why alot of archaeology around the world points to one technologically and spiritually advanced civilization spanning the globe. Fits in with all the pre cataclysm pyramid theories and such.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Revelation ?

Sure! It inspires alot of writings about sacred numbers and angels.

 

[Sketcher]

Revelation is said to have a lot of parallels to Daniel. Still, it is very clear from the first few chapters that it is in fact a Christian book.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

Revelation is said to have a lot of parallels to Daniel. Still, it is very clear from the first few chapters that it is in fact a Christian book.

I'd go along with that - the last chapter in Daniel also says it is sealed until the end times. In a similar way everybody is guessing and arguing what the full interpretation of Revelation is. The conclusion could be that the full meaning of the book of Revelation is still awaiting to be revealed near the end time. One with understanding may well "unlock it". The book of Revelation itself doesn't say that it is sealed so I guess we don't HEAR or SEE very well.

Daniel 12

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end

The ending of Revelation is very similar. There is a distinction between being wise and having knowledge.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I have read parts of it, and read ABOUT it. Nevertheless I still cannot get my head around the fine theological distinctions of denominations arising from its content. Much of discussion about it reminds me of Midrash or Kabbalah, and is similar to so-called kabbalistic or Hassidic apocalyptic theories about the coming of the Messiah son of Joseph, Messiah son of David, preceded by Elijah - when and how and who, which is all rather confusing even to many Jews.
And of course it seems to be clear that in its original form Revelation was not a Christian book at all, but belonged to some pietistic Jewish sect in its original form.

The Revelation is the most controversial book of the Bible, and always has been. It was widely accepted in the Christian West, but was regarded with a lot more suspicion by the Christian East. As such it is basically the last book which found widespread canonical acceptance, in the high middle ages in some places (Armenian Bibles from the 12th century still didn't have it, indicating a really late acceptance in some places).

It doesn't help that there is no widespread consensus as to how to interpret the text, and most of the historic churches and mainstream denominations tend to avoid having any kind of official interpretation, simply because the text is a difficult one to try and parse. I personally read it through an historical, preterist lens as describing things from the time it was written in the form of an apocalyptic; and that is a common view, but obviously not the only view as just as common are futurist and historicist readings.

Is it Christian? Yes. Is it easy to understand? Hardly. And I would never recommend someone new to the faith going anywhere near it unless they want a massive headache.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I've also wondered this, as well as the early church. It look centuries for it to be canonized long after the other books, and even then the Church approached it with utmost caution, unlike today where it seems to be the majority of what people from evangelical communities discuss.

The way some groups obsess over the Revelation of St. John seems, at the very least, very unhealthy. I generally follow a principle that, when it comes to the New Testament, Homologoumena should rule over Antilegomena; Antilegomena is useful to corroborate Homologoumena, but not establish theology all on its own. This is doubly true in regard to the Revelation.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[FIRESTORM314]

The way some groups obsess over the Revelation of St. John seems, at the very least, very unhealthy. I generally follow a principle that, when it comes to the New Testament, Homologoumena should rule over Antilegomena; Antilegomena is useful to corroborate Homologoumena, but not establish theology all on its own. This is doubly true in regard to the Revelation.

-CryptoLutheran

You missed one vital ingredient - the holy Spirit will guide you into all Truth
Wasn't John the Author of the book of Revelation?

JOHN 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You missed one vital ingredient - the holy Spirit will guide you into all Truth
Wasn't John the Author of the book of Revelation?

JOHN 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

The author of the the Revelation is named John, which John isn't clear. There's as many as three Johns: John the Apostle, John the Presbyter, and John the Revelator. And it depends on whether or not these are different people or not.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Radagast]

And of course it seems to be clear that in its original form Revelation was not a Christian book at all, but belonged to some pietistic Jewish sect in its original form.

OK, that's just silly. There's far to much Jesus in it to be anything other than Christian.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

The author of the the Revelation is named John, which John isn't clear. There's as many as three Johns: John the Apostle, John the Presbyter, and John the Revelator. And it depends on whether or not these are different people or not.

-CryptoLutheran

I've never done any study on it's origins. It's not a book I've done much "work" on either. To crack those symbols would take some in depth study of the rest of the bible. There's quite a few writing styles thrown in there. "John" was very familiar with the OT and the New Testament books we have.

He leaves a challenge to us to use our wisdom though