Was Satan Bound Already?

Saucy said:

So I was looking through Revelation 20 for another thread, and something hit me.

"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time." v.1-3, NASB

As par with what I was taught, this was a future thing after Christ returns. But then I saw this:

"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them." v. 7-9, NASB

I believe things are setting up for the Gog/Magog war now and we will potentially see it in our lifetime. If that is true, does this mean Satan was already bound for a thousand years? Perhaps when Christ died the enemy was bound and released after a thousand years to prepare the nations for the Gog/Magog war?

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Binding doesn't necessarily mean completely bound. Only restrained. Satan is restrained for a time. Remember that the Church is amillennialist.

Saucy said:

So I was looking through Revelation 20 for another thread, and something hit me.

"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time." v.1-3, NASB

As par with what I was taught, this was a future thing after Christ returns. But then I saw this:

"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them." v. 7-9, NASB

I believe things are setting up for the Gog/Magog war now and we will potentially see it in our lifetime. If that is true, does this mean Satan was already bound for a thousand years? Perhaps when Christ died the enemy was bound and released after a thousand years to prepare the nations for the Gog/Magog war?

Click to expand...

The thousand years of Rev 20 is future - and it begins with the world-wide event of Rev 19 - which is the appearing of Christ and rapture of the saints.

The saints a focused on the future event described in Rev 19, and in 2Thess 1, and in Matt 24:29-31 and in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and in John 14:1-3.

That event begins the 1000 years of Rev 20.

HTacianas said:

B. Remember that the Church is amillennialist.

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Isn't that imposing interpretations ... even as to what composes the church.

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Citizen of the Kingdom said:

Isn't that imposing interpretations ... even as to what composes the church.

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

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The Church abrogated chiliasm (millenialism) around 400 AD or so.

HTacianas said:

The Church abrogated chiliasm (millenialism) around 400 AD or so.

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The Church meaning the POPE? Sorry, I don't follow, but that doesn't make me not the Church fyi.

The ECF all belong to every part of the complete church before the chisms happened but what has happened since holds to Ttraditions that don't exclude each other on issues not relating to salvation.

amillennialism is a belief system, nothing more.

Saucy said:

I believe things are setting up for the Gog/Magog war now and we will potentially see it in our lifetime. If that is true, does this mean Satan was already bound for a thousand years?

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You are right about the setting up of the Gog/Magog event is taking place now.

But it does not mean that Satan has been bound - because the reference to Gog/Magog at the end of the thousand years - is not the Ezekiel 38/39 event - but is referring to those same nations of our day, also taking part in the final rebellion at the end of the thousand years.

Satan is not currently bound, but he is denied access to the third heaven, unless summoned by God.

Ezekiel 28:16-19, tells the end of Satan's free run in this current age. He will be cast down to earth, which is the event in Revelation 12:7-9.

He will be engulfed in flames, and turned to ashes - and exposed to the kings of the earth to behold him... i.e. see him, just as Daniel saw Gabriel.

How is that going to happen?

When Satan is cast down to earth, he will incarnate the AoD statue image, making it appear to come to life and speak - and will be worshiped.

At Jesus's return, Jesus will look to the statue image, Satan within, and cause it to burst into flames, turning it to ashes.... and there will be Satan exposed on the temple mount for everyone to see.

And as it says in Ezekiel 28:19 - to be a terror no more.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Saucy said:

So I was looking through Revelation 20 for another thread, and something hit me.

"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time." v.1-3, NASB

As par with what I was taught, this was a future thing after Christ returns. But then I saw this:

"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them." v. 7-9, NASB

I believe things are setting up for the Gog/Magog war now and we will potentially see it in our lifetime. If that is true, does this mean Satan was already bound for a thousand years? Perhaps when Christ died the enemy was bound and released after a thousand years to prepare the nations for the Gog/Magog war?

Click to expand...

Let's assume he is already bound a thousand years. What does the text indicate he is unable to do during the thousand years? This---that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled.

What about all these then, meaning during the thousand years---the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth---the number of whom is as the sand of the sea(Revelation 20:8)?

Obviously, assuming the thousand years are now, this means these recorded in Revelation 20:8 are literally alive and well during the final years of the millennium. What is their status during the millennium, though? Are they believers or unbelievers? The former would imply that they are not being deceived by satan during the millennium. Yet, the latter implies that satan would be deceiving them during the millennium if they are unbelievers instead. Which means the latter would be contradicting this during the millennium---that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled.

Is one going to argue, not only are believers not deceived by satan, unbelievers are not deceived by satan either?

If the thousand years are after the 2nd coming, we can then make sense out of Revelation 20:8 and their status during the millennium. Prior to the 2nd coming they would be among the unsaved that are spared rather than destroyed at the time(Zechariah 14:16 for one). And since satan would be in the pit, the beast and false prophet in the LOF, and that Christ and His saints are ruling and governing the entire planet, there is no one to any longer deceive anyone, meaning during the millennium. Therefore, during the millennium no one on the entire planet is still being deceived by anyone, which then agrees with this---that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled.

To sum it up, if the thousand years are now, satan would be deceiving someone after the thousand years that he is already deceiving during the thousand years. If the thousand years are after the 2nd coming, satan would be deceiving someone after the thousand years that he was unable to deceive during the thousand years because he is bound in the pit instead.

Those that take the thousand years to be meaning now do not take this---that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled--to be meaning exactly what it says. What part of--no more---do they not comprehend? If someone were to say a drunk driver was arrested and placed in prison for 10 years, so that he can no more drive around drunk these same 10 years, what part of no more does one fail to grasp? No more means exactly what it says. It means to completely stop doing what one was previously doing.

Saucy said:

So I was looking through Revelation 20 for another thread, and something hit me.

"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time." v.1-3, NASB

As par with what I was taught, this was a future thing after Christ returns. But then I saw this:

"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them." v. 7-9, NASB

I believe things are setting up for the Gog/Magog war now and we will potentially see it in our lifetime. If that is true, does this mean Satan was already bound for a thousand years? Perhaps when Christ died the enemy was bound and released after a thousand years to prepare the nations for the Gog/Magog war?

Click to expand...

Saucy, how are the nations deceived when Satan is bound? Did the Gentile nations of the earth have knowledge of a Savior who would come to redeem them from sin and give eternal life before Christ came and sent the Gospel unto all the nations of the world? Since the Gospel has been sent unto all the nations of earth are Gentiles hearing the Gospel of salvation, believing and receiving eternal life through Christ?

DavidPT said:

Let's assume he is already bound a thousand years. What does the text indicate he is unable to do during the thousand years? This---that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled.

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Are the nations of the earth who hear the Gospel of Christ and believe no longer in deception?

DavidPT said:

Those that take the thousand years to be meaning now do not take this---that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled--to be meaning exactly what it says. What part of--no more---do they not comprehend?

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Are you promoting universalism? If "that he should deceive the nations no more" means no people from the nations of the world will be deceived, would that not mean that all people will be saved?

rwb said:

Are you promoting universalism? If "that he should deceive the nations no more" means no people from the nations of the world will be deceived, would that not mean that all people will be saved?

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First we need to determine what is meant by nations.

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


Obviously, there can't be nations, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Yet, there can be nations where their numbers combined, total the number of whom is as the sand of the sea, meaning the ppl making up the nations. IOW, 100 nations, for example. That does not equal the number of whom is as the sand of the sea, since 100 is not a number like that. But if in 100 nations combined there are billions of ppl living in these 100 nations, billions of people would be the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Regardless where one places the millennium, these in Revelation 20:8 just don't come out of nowhere all of a sudden, as if they weren't present during the millennium, but are now present after the millennium. Clearly, they are present during the millennium if they are seen coming against the camp of saints after the millennium.

And once again, brings this point up. What is their status during the millennium, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea, which would have to be equally true during the millennium, pertaining to the number of them? Are they being deceived by satan during the millennium, or is their status during the millennium agreeing with the following text---that he should deceive the nations no more--meaning during the millennium?

Granted, during the millennium, per your view, satan would not be deceiving some, yet he would still be deceiving the lost, though. The latter does not equal this then---no more. How can no more mean satan is still doing what his binding is supposed to be preventing him from doing, deceiving the nations no more during the millennium, if he is still deceiving the lost during the millennium, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea?

rwb said:

Are you promoting universalism? If "that he should deceive the nations no more" means no people from the nations of the world will be deceived, would that not mean that all people will be saved?

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Of course I'm not promoting universalism. I'm simply agreeing with what 'no more' means in general. Take the following passage, for instance.

Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.


This same phrase 'no more' is used in this passage as well. Though, these passages are unrelated, the point has to do with how one should take 'no more' to mean. Can you demonstrate by using this passage, how no more in Revelation 7:16 means what you take no more to mean in Revelation 20:3? Why would no more mean something entirely different in Revelation 20:3 than it means in Revelation 7:16? What does it mean when it says They shall hunger no more? Does it mean they will still hunger, just less than before? Or does it mean they shall never hunger no more ever again?

Saucy said:

So I was looking through Revelation 20 for another thread, and something hit me.

"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time." v.1-3, NASB

As par with what I was taught, this was a future thing after Christ returns. But then I saw this:

"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them." v. 7-9, NASB

I believe things are setting up for the Gog/Magog war now and we will potentially see it in our lifetime. If that is true, does this mean Satan was already bound for a thousand years? Perhaps when Christ died the enemy was bound and released after a thousand years to prepare the nations for the Gog/Magog war?

Click to expand...

NO.. Christ all see Him coming sets foot on the earth and Christ it not here.. no sheep and goats split. Evil is more wicked today and growing. I Know some blame everything on Satan yet the same can be said for thinking man is this evil. The Church is still here. See for me I have been given all power all authority over the enemy. Satan will never have power given to him over me. How can God give Satan power/authority over God,Christ and sweet sweet holy Spirit that are in me for ever?

There is no Antichrist out there doing lying wonders that we have never seen. The lawless one that does not believe in the gods of his fathers or any god for he will say he is god. That has not happened. No false prophet. but the main for me is we are still here. WE are the righteous. And the wrath of God is not coming on a few cities and God will protect us. That is not written. His wrath is coming on the whole world and all in it. He can never do this as long as we are here. Lot had to be gone. Not hidden but went to a different city. Again whats coming is on the whole world all in it. As God said to Lot "as long as you are still here I can do nothing". We are still here we have CHRIST in us and we are the righteousness of God

HTacianas said:

Satan is restrained for a time

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If Satan is restrained, then how do events like Holocaust and wars happen?

Saucy said:

I guess what came to mind is the rapid expansion of the church throughout the world. Rome converted, the Vikings converted, the Greeks converted, the Britons converted...all of these once strongly pagan nations were enlightened by the gospel. Even now the church is rapidly expanding in China and India.

So, for a time, Satan was bound so the church could expand throughout the world. But then he was released again. Deception has begun to creep in for a while now. The rise of Islam, universalism, and atheism. Look at the state of the church now in Europe and the U.S.

This is just what came to mind.

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These are all Gentile nations of the world being converted to Christianity by the Gospel. Christianity has even impacted nations like Iran, and Communist China. This conversion to Christianity began from the very beginning of the Church on earth, the first century AD, as the Gospel has gone unto all the world. The text does not say that every Gentile in the nations of the world will not be deceived even though they hear the Gospel. It only tells us the binding of Satan prevents him from keeping every Gentile from the nations deceived. How can this be if Satan, since Christ, defeated death, is no longer able to hold Gentiles who believe the Gospel in bondage to sin and death?

If Satan is not bound by Christ's resurrection from the dead how are any Gentiles among the nations being saved through the Gospel?

Satan's binding does not make him powerless in the world. His binding only prevents him from holding whosoever believes the Gospel in bondage to fear of death. The Gospel of Christ proves that Christ has defeated death, and all who believe the Gospel will never die. It is for this purpose that Christ's resurrection from the grave bound Satan. Nowhere does Scripture tell us that Satan is ever bound to bring peace on this earth.

DavidPT said:

Regardless where one places the millennium, these in Revelation 20:8 just don't come out of nowhere all of a sudden, as if they weren't present during the millennium, but are now present after the millennium. Clearly, they are present during the millennium if they are seen coming against the camp of saints after the millennium.

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Those being deceived from the nations are people who live and die on the earth from the beginning of the universal Church on earth until the Church or Kingdom of heaven is complete. These people live in time, likened to a thousand years. Since the time referenced is when Satan can no longer deceive the nations, it is the time when the Gospel through the Church is being sent unto the nations and those of the nations who believe are no longer deceived. So the binding of Satan during a thousand years began when Christ defeated death, and sent His Church unto all the nations of the earth to proclaim His Gospel. And whosoever believes the Gospel throughout the earth has eternal life.

DavidPT said:

Of course I'm not promoting universalism. I'm simply agreeing with what 'no more' means in general. Take the following passage, for instance.

Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

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You do realize this verse is speaking of those who have died in faith and are with the Lord in heaven? The nations of the world are deceived "no more" since the Gospel has gone unto all the nations of the world, and whosoever believes has everlasting life through Christ. The verse says nations to make a distinction between Jews and Gentiles. The verse does not say every Gentile will be deceived no more. Just as Scripture never says every Jew will not be deceived when Satan is bound.