Was Martin Luther saved?

[ImperatorWall]

How well do you know Martin Luther?

He believed that baptizing infants saved them.

In his writings and theology he removed the second commandment from the ten commandments to justify the use of icons in the church.

His radical and violent anti-Semitic rhetoric ended up becoming part of the foundation for Nazi Germany's racial cleansing philosophies.

It seems to me that any professing believer that were to teach similar things today would immediately be disavowed by any and all churches (except perhaps Westboro Baptist). Why then, is Luther given such latitude just because of his place in church history?

Which then brings up an even trickier question; were the actions and motivations of Luther in sparking the protestant reformation Biblical?

 

[Purge187]

I'm thankful for people like Luther for their efforts to break away from the apostate Catholic church, but yes, he was far from flawless. It seemed he crossed the line between Christ-centered faith and self-centered fanaticism towards the end of his life.

 

[crishmael]

I don't know. I leave judgment of one's salvation up to God.

You'll find very few Lutherans today justifying Luther's antisemitism. Nazi Germany tapped into a long history of Christian antisemitism that went back to the Roman Empire so I don't know whether Luther's contribution was anything more than extra fuel onto a long burning fire.

Biblical is an overused term. It usually means something one agrees with and wants to proof text.

 

[FearlessHeart]

Ohhhh alright. So you just come into this forum to bait people.

 

[Blank123]

.

 

[Strider1002]

You really should be worried about your own salvation, not that of someone who's already dead.

Thread over.

 

[Calvinator]

How well do you know Martin Luther?

He believed that baptizing infants saved them.

In his writings and theology he removed the second commandment from the ten commandments to justify the use of icons in the church.

His radical and violent anti-Semitic rhetoric ended up becoming part of the foundation for Nazi Germany's racial cleansing philosophies.

It seems to me that any professing believer that were to teach similar things today would immediately be disavowed by any and all churches (except perhaps Westboro Baptist). Why then, is Luther given such latitude just because of his place in church history?

Which then brings up an even trickier question; were the actions and motivations of Luther in sparking the protestant reformation Biblical?

Some of Luther's writings are shocking. I also feel that the subject of the Reformation is too big a subject for me to really express my thoughts on without really upsetting people. I understand why he did what he did. When corruption gets bad enough it causes splits.

Many of the Protestant Reformers looked on the "mother church" in Rome as the harlot from Revelation, and wrote openly about it. What they seem to have failed to realize is that this allegorical "woman" had children. Who are the children?

Luther being saved. I don't know. I believe it's not our calling to make that determination about anyone, no matter how many bad things they've done or how evil or twisted we think they are. One of the messages of Jesus is that we are to forgive "seventy times seven". If that is God's standard for us, I do not imagine His own standard is any less.

 

[FearlessHeart]

whose sock are you?

Um this is the only account I have on this messageboard.

 

[Calvinator]

Um this is the only account I have on this messageboard.

Some people like to hunt. It's fun for them. Me, I prefer driving to horseback.

 

[Blank123]

.

 

[FearlessHeart]

OK.

Your post just struck me as an odd comment considering Imperator doesn't post very much and you've only been here a month.

He posted a thread about the age of the earth yesterday

 

[Toro]

Some people like to hunt. It's fun for them. Me, I prefer driving to horseback.

I gotta pea.

See?

 

[Blank123]

.

 

[Rhye]

Hahahaha.

Pea.

 

[Calvinator]

I gotta pea.

See?

That, sir, would be perfect for subtly agitating a very large princess, but only if you put it down real deep in her stack of mattresses.

 

[Blackguard_]

How well do you know Martin Luther?

Better than you.

He believed that baptizing infants saved them.

Yes, and he also believed the body and blood of Christ is present in the bread and wine of the Eucharist like the entire Church up until the Radical Reformation with the likes of Zwingli and Calvin.

n his writings and theology he removed the second commandment from the ten commandments to justify the use of icons in the church.

You've obviously never read his theology.

His radical and violent anti-Semitic rhetoric ended up becoming part of the foundation for Nazi Germany's racial cleansing philosophies.

Nope. The Nazis didn't need Luther for their anti-semitism, which existed loooong before Luther. Not to excuse Luther, but he was hardly uniuqely anti-Jewish.

It seems to me that any professing believer that were to teach similar things today would immediately be disavowed by any and all churches. (except perhaps Westboro Baptist). Why then, is Luther given such latitude just because of his place in church history?

In other words, an ad homimem attack? Should we ignore everything Calvin said too because he turned Geneva into a theocracy? Pretty much everyone in the 16th-17th centuries did things moderns would find abhorant.

Just out of curiousity, what denomination or church group do you belong too?

Which then brings up an even trickier question; were the actions and motivations of Luther in sparking the protestant reformation Biblical?

Yes. He wasn't perfect, but he was right on a lot, including the Gospel, justification by faith through faith apart from works

But maybe you're an Arminian, who thinks he even got that wrong.

 

[fdsfndls]

I usually have to check how to spell anti-semitic, but you have to keep in mind - the jewish people are still waiting for the messiah so that they can rule the earth. If God had given them that power and the situations had been reversed between them and germany - how would they have treated the germans?

I wonder if Luther was spirit filled. I've read little of his actual writings, or haven't seen anything written about it anyway.

 

[Blackguard_]

It seemed he crossed the line between Christ-centered faith and self-centered fanaticism towards the end of his life.

He was in poor health and he was always rather caustic, so the last few years of his life is when things like "against the Jews and their lies" and "against the Papacy at Rome founded by the Devil" came out.

Thing is though, Lutheranism isn't "agreeing with what Luther wrote". He wrote some crazy and dumb stuff (he wrote reams of stuff). We're "Lutheran" as far as other people came together and signed his writings "yes, we agree with this".

You know the Book of Concord, the collection of writings the Lutherans in Germany in 1580 came together and said "this is what we agree on" and defines Lutheranism? Luther didn't write most of it.

"Lutheran" is what our opponents called us. The early Lutherans called themselves things like "evangelicals" or "theologians of the Augsburg Confession" (which was written by Phillip Melanchton).

 

[Blackguard_]

I wonder if Luther was spirit filled. I've read little of his actual writings, or haven't seen anything written about it anyway.

Of course he was spirit filled, all believers are.

if you mean the Charismatic/Pentecostal/Azuza Street Revival glossalia and slaying in the spirit type "spirit filled", he was against that sort of thing.

He called the Proto-Charismatics of his day "Schwarmerei", the "swarming ones".

I think this he wrote in the Smalcald Articles about sums up how he felt about that stuff...

"In short, enthusiasm clings to Adam and his descendants from the beginning to the end of the world. It is a poison implanted and inoculated in man by the old dragon, and is the source, strength, and power of all heresy, including that of the Papacy and Mohammedanism. Accordingly, we should and must constantly maintain that God will not deal with us except through his external Word and sacrament. Whatever is attributed to the Spirit apart from such Word and sacrament is of the devil."
-The Smalcald Articles, Part III, Article VIII

 

[fdsfndls]

Explains why he ended up with justified by faith alone.