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So you've answered your own question.We are NT Christians not OT Israelites. Hence Jesus is our example to follow, not David.
It might include that. But I am very skeptical that Bathsheba was a willing participant. She did not need to be in order for David to do whatever he wanted to her.
Of course David wanted Uriah to go home and sleep with Bathsheba in the hopes that he and others would assume the baby was conceived while he was home from war. Clearly that concern trumped the one about her telling Uriah about it. Given how hard it is for victims of sexual assault to speak up even today, I am guessing that David wasn’t so worried about that. By the way, the “wash your feet” language that David uses over and over when speaking to Uriah was a euphemism for having sex, or at least that is what I was taught by a Jewish Studies professor.
The connections in Hebrews 11 are not made explicit but let's say for argument's sake, it means David by faith "routed foreign armies". But, as has been written elsewhere in this thread, David was a man of violence who spent a lot of time smiting i.e. killing. Is that a good example for Christians to aspire to? "Bad" is not a word I have used. But what does it mean in this context? "All have sinned". We are all "bad".David is also used as a positive example in the new testament (Hebrews 11:32)
Good people in the Old Testament don't become bad people after the coming of Christ. Why would they?
Rather Christ allows us to even more perfectly appreciate the virtue of His servants that came before Him.
"Have you read" questions are a subtle kind of genetic fallacy; attacking me rather than addressing the issues. I had referred to the Philistines "fleeing" in the OP. There is no mention of "several battles". in this passage before they return to Jerusalem. That is your assumption.I quoted it to show that David did other things and had other battles etc, rather than being accredited with killing tens of thousands, after killing only Goliath.
"As the troops were returning home ..... " - you seem to be assuming that that was the same day, or the day after, at least. Have you read 1 Samuel 17:52-53? David killed Goliath, the Israelites chased the Philistines, and scattered the dead bodies all along the road, then they plundered the camp. This, and 1 Sam 18:5, clearly implies there were several battles and victories for David.
I didn't comment on Acts 1:6-8, and it is irrelevant.
The question of your thread is whether or not David was a good example for Christians. The short answer - which most people have said - is that Jesus is a way better example for Christians.
We can learn from David's story: he was chosen by God, called a man after God's own heart, sinned, big time - but repented and continued to believe in, and serve, God. But I wouldn't follow his example of lust, seduction and murder. He wasn't perfect; only Jesus has been that.
No, but King David was living around 3-4000 years ago. He lived in a time when they went to war on, and killed, their enemies; this was the only way of being rid of them.
Things might be a tad different now; don't you think?
Well obviously.
Again, what has that got to do with whether or not we can learn from King David's example or his story?
When the king sends messengers to fetch her what choice did Bathsheba have? There may have been no need to hold a knife to her throat but that is not the same as Bathsheba having a free choice in the matter.I just don't see any reason from the text to believe that it wasn't consensual.
Well exactly. I don't even know what this discussion is about - nor why I entered it.We are NT Christians not OT Israelites and so we should live according to the kingdom principles espoused by Jesus.
The reason for why i started the thread is given in the OP.Well exactly. I don't even know what this discussion is about - nor why I entered it.
"Was King David a good example for Christians?"
There weren't any Christians around at the time, and not for about 3000 years afterwards.
Do we follow David? No, we follow Jesus.
David was called, by God, a man after God's own heart. We can learn from his mistakes - especially when he tried to hide his sin from God. We can follow his example and his zeal for standing up for God against a blaspheming pagan, not caring that others laugh at us.
But our ultimate, and immediate, example is Jesus; of course it is.
Did you have a particular reason for asking, or did you just want us to say, "no, David was a rotten sinner"?
The title of the thread is "Was King David a good example for Christians?" That implies "was he a good example for Christians of that time?" which clearly doesn't make sense."There weren't any Christians around at the time" What is the relevance of this remark?
No, but you agreed with someone who said that he was "downright repugnant".I haven't called David a "rotten sinner" despite your quotation marks. But aren't we all rotten sinners?
About all the battles and things keep in mind they were called by God to drive out the inhabitants of the land and much could be said about that.I recently read The Making of a Man of God by Alan Redpath which is a series of homilies drawn from the life of David. Now to be fair, Redpath says in his introduction that the Bible doesn't flatter its heroes, and he does make frequent reference to the life of the much greater Son of David i.e. Jesus in the gospels. Each homily is preceded by extracts of accounts in 1 and 2 Samuel, but as I read these accounts I started to think more and more that David was not so much an example to be followed but in many ways an example to be avoided.
Fee and Stuart make a good point in their How to Read the Bible for all its Worth that the OT narratives are not intended to be moralising but as an account of God's dealings with his chosen people (which is still profitable for us).
A good example that shows the difference between David and Jesus is
As they danced, they sang: “Saul has slain his thousands, and David his tens of thousands.” 1 Sam 18:7
An odd verse since it follows on from David killing Goliath and the Philistines fleeing. So at this point we only know that David had killed one person not tens of thousands, though that one person's demise led to many other Philistines dying as they fled the scene. Maybe we can take this as exaggeration by the women of Israel - the point of which is to start the theme of Saul's jealousy of David.
Contrast this with:
So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:6-8
The disciples could well have added "as in King David's time". But it is clear that Jesus' idea of the kingdom is very different from that of his disciples. But surely the disciples' idea of the kingdom follows on naturally from the accounts in the OT - their view is reasonable in that context, but shows they, as yet, hadn't fully grasped the significance of Jesus' life and teachings.
There are other examples in David's life which are certainly not to be followed by Christians today but I'll leave those for later.
I always thought the song was sung AFTER David had , by Yahweh's Direction, killed tens of thousands of the enemy , or at least seemingly that many. I never thought it was just after killing Goliath.So at this point we only know that David had killed one person not tens of thousands, though that one person's demise led to many other Philistines dying as they fled the scene. Maybe we can take this as exaggeration by the women of Israel - the point of which is to start the theme of Saul's jealousy of David.
It was a sin, but not repugnant. Perhaps the word has different definitions though ?Do you think that sleeping with his wife, Bathsheba, and having Uriah killed not repugnant?
To me that is a modern, or more modern, way, a wrong way, of thinking that was not.sort of goes against the soldiers standing with all other soldiers having each other's back. There's just something about that where the whole army and those who serve would feel betrayed.
It looks in Scripture like God chose her to be in the genealogy of Jesus.It might include that. But I am very skeptical that Bathsheba was a willing participant. She did not need to be in order for David to do whatever he wanted to her.
Not at all.That was an ongoing sin against her, not just a one-time event. Imagine her misery.
There ya' go, yes.Or am I misunderstanding?
Do you think or believe that everyone following Jesus, abiding in Jesus' Life today,There are other examples in David's life which are certainly not to be followed by Christians today but I'll leave those for later.
Most people everywhere have no heart after / no heart seeking/ the Creator, and when I question anyone, they usually admit it without too much if any hesitation.If the LORD would examine all of us could he find less matters on us than David?
Only a few in Scripture come to mind, the most famous being Saul who became Paul the messenger of Yahweh.If that be the case then David could have us all beat, because who could say that over the course of our entire lives we have been more obedient to the LORD then David?
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