Was Jesus born without sin?

[reddogs]

We have the following to use as base for this discussion...

Man and woman were made in the image of God with individuality, the power and freedom to think and to do. Though created free beings, each is an indivisible unity of body, mind, and spirit, dependent upon God for life and breath and all else. When our first parents disobeyed God, they denied their dependence upon Him and fell from their high position under God. The image of God in them was marred and they became subject to death. Their descendants share this fallen nature and its consequences. They are born with weaknesses and tendencies to evil. But God in Christ reconciled the world to Himself and by His Spirit restores in penitent mortals the image of their Maker. Created for the glory of God, they are called to love Him and one another, and to care for their environment.—Fundamental Beliefs, 7

Adam's descendants share the sinfulness of his nature. In prayer, David said, "In Your sight no one living is righteous" (Ps. 143:2; cf. 14:3). "'There is no one who does not sin'" (1 Kings 8:46). And Solomon said, "Who can say, 'I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin'?" (Prov. 20:9); "There is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin" (Eccl. 7:20). The New Testament is equally clear, stating that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Rom. 3:23) and that "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8).

So if man, though created perfect and in God's image, and placed in a perfect environment, through Adam and Eve became transgressors of Gods Law and inherited sin, how did Jesus not have sin at birth.

 

[AndrewK788]

So if man, though created perfect and in God's image, and placed in a perfect environment, through Adam and Eve became transgressors of Gods Law and inherited sin, how did Jesus not have sin at birth.

Good question.

This looks like its treading around the doctrine of original sin, though you never specifically mention that term. Adventism has traditionally not held this view, whereas the Roman Catholic Church has written volumes on it. It originated with Augustine I believe.

Adam and Eve sinned and became sinners. Their children inherited all the degeneracy and backwardness that sin caused. However, it would be incorrect to say they inherited Adam's sin in the sense of his guilt. Their guilt was their own. This is the fundamental issue original sin wrestles with, and I believe the biblical answer is clear:

• Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."
• John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."

The point is it seems from a biblical perspective what we inherit is the sinful nature, but not the guilt itself. Though we do bear guilt--however, it is OUR OWN guilt, not Adam's specifically. Without a Savior, our degenerate, fallen nature is such that it is impossible for us to break free. As soon as our hearts and minds are mature enough to function as independent human beings, iniquity is a given.

• Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
• Romans 8:7, 8 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
• Ephesians 2:3 "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

Christ did come in the nature of sinful flesh, and by living sinlessly and dying upon Calvary he condemned sin in said sinful flesh (Rom. 8:3). But I believe EGW explains that Christ's mind never consented to sin. This is biblical when we understand that sin is a choice against conscience:

• James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin"
• Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves."
• 1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

So to answer your original question: how did Jesus not have sin at birth?

What he did have was the fallen, sinful, human nature. But he also had a character, a mind, that never consented to sin. The consent of a man's heart makes him guilty or otherwise. Proverbs 23:7 "For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he."

Thus, even though Christ had our fallen nature, He never once consented to sin. Despite the degeneracy of his flesh, he walked uprightly with God and lived an entire earthly life in sinful flesh, and yet without once sinning, thus condemning sin in the flesh.

 

[reddogs]

Good question.

This looks like its treading around the doctrine of original sin, though you never specifically mention that term. Adventism has traditionally not held this view, whereas the Roman Catholic Church has written volumes on it. It originated with Augustine I believe.

Adam and Eve sinned and became sinners. Their children inherited all the degeneracy and backwardness that sin caused. However, it would be incorrect to say they inherited Adam's sin in the sense of his guilt. Their guilt was their own. This is the fundamental issue original sin wrestles with, and I believe the biblical answer is clear:

• Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."
• John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."

The point is it seems from a biblical perspective what we inherit is the sinful nature, but not the guilt itself. Though we do bear guilt--however, it is OUR OWN guilt, not Adam's specifically. Without a Savior, our degenerate, fallen nature is such that it is impossible for us to break free. As soon as our hearts and minds are mature enough to function as independent human beings, iniquity is a given.

• Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
• Romans 8:7, 8 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
• Ephesians 2:3 "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

Christ did come in the nature of sinful flesh, and by living sinlessly and dying upon Calvary he condemned sin in said sinful flesh (Rom. 8:3). But I believe EGW explains that Christ's mind never consented to sin. This is biblical when we understand that sin is a choice against conscience:

• James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin"
• Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves."
• 1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

So to answer your original question: how did Jesus not have sin at birth?

What he did have was the fallen, sinful, human nature. But he also had a character, a mind, that never consented to sin. The consent of a man's heart makes him guilty or otherwise. Proverbs 23:7 "For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he."

Thus, even though Christ had our fallen nature, He never once consented to sin. Despite the degeneracy of his flesh, he walked uprightly with God and lived an entire earthly life in sinful flesh, and yet without once sinning, thus condemning sin in the flesh.

But how as a infant having no chance or as a small child before learning to read or study to gain understanding and discernment, could he know what sin was?

 

[AndrewK788]

But how as a infant having no chance or as a small child before learning to read or study to gain understanding and discernment, could he know what sin was?

If by this you mean have an intellectual understanding of the definition of sin, who said he did? A lot of the ground we're treading upon is speculative so I'm open to any new thoughts and I certainly don't proclaim to have right answers. One doesn't have to "know" what sin is to consent to it. Nor do they need to know what sin is to resist it. The point is I know he never once consented to sin, thus never sinned. How his intellectual development looked, I have no earthly idea and I wouldn't presume to guess. Maybe I missed what you were asking though...

 

[Christian7PraiseJesus]

JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER! JESUS IS THE FATHER! JESUS IS GOD!

(1) In Zechariah 12:10, God speaks of the future return of Christ and says, ". . . They shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourne for him, as one mourneth for his only son . . . ." This is spoken again in Revelation 1:7, which is clearly a reference to Christ Himself, but in Zechariah 12:10 GOD said, ". . . They shall look upon me whom they have pierced . . . ." The One that they pierced was Jesus Christ! So, in Zechariah 12:10, God is saying that He is Jesus Christ.


(2) In John 1:1, John 1:14, 1 John 1:1, and in 1 John 5:7, Jesus is called "the Word," and John 1:1 says that "the Word was God."

(3) Thomas referred to Jesus as "My Lord and my God" in John 20:28, and Jesus did not see the need to correct him.


(4) Isaiah 7:14 gives us the prophecy of the Virgin Birth of Christ and states that His name would be "Immanuel." Matthew 1:23 tells us that this word means "God with us."

(5) In Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is called "Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." The Bible certainly would not say this about anyone less than God.


(6) In John 10:30, Jesus says, "I and my Father are ONE." Jesus is not a lesser god; He is ONE with the Father.


(7) Micah 5:2 tells us that Jesus is "from everlasting."

(8) In John 8:58, Jesus tells the Pharisees, "Before Abraham was, I AM." He claimed to be the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14, which is God Almighty.


(9) Jesus allowed others to worship Him (John 9:38; Matt. 14:33; and Luke 24:52), which was forbidden, unless He was God (Rev. 22:9).


(10) Jesus forgave sins (Mark 2:5), which only God can do (Mark 2:7).


(11) The Lord Jesus Christ is omnipresent (Matt. 18:20; 28:20; II Cor. 13:14; I John 5:7). We know He is God because He is capable of being everywhere at once.


(12) Jesus is omniscient (Mark 11:2-6; Matt. 12:40). He is God because He knows all things.


(13) The Lord Jesus is also omnipotent (Rev. 19:6; Matt. 28:18). He has all power.


(14) According to John 1, 1 John 1, Colossians 1, and Hebrews 1, Jesus Christ is the Creator of Genesis 1!


(15) Jesus never sinned! Romans 3:23 says that ALL HAVE SINNED and come short of the glory of God, but Jesus did not sin (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Peter 3:18). So Jesus had to be God.


JESUS IS THE FATHER AND GOD! The perfect, sinless example given to HUMANkind as God in the flesh as a theophany

 

[AndrewK788]

JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER! JESUS IS THE FATHER! JESUS IS GOD!



JESUS IS THE FATHER AND GOD! The perfect, sinless example given to HUMANkind as God in the flesh as a theophany

You're right that Christ never sinned and that He was God. But when He came to earth He also took upon himself sinful flesh (Rom. 8:3), did He not?

 

[reddogs]

JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER! JESUS IS THE FATHER! JESUS IS GOD!

(1) In Zechariah 12:10, God speaks of the future return of Christ and says, ". . . They shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourne for him, as one mourneth for his only son . . . ." This is spoken again in Revelation 1:7, which is clearly a reference to Christ Himself, but in Zechariah 12:10 GOD said, ". . . They shall look upon me whom they have pierced . . . ." The One that they pierced was Jesus Christ! So, in Zechariah 12:10, God is saying that He is Jesus Christ.


(2) In John 1:1, John 1:14, 1 John 1:1, and in 1 John 5:7, Jesus is called "the Word," and John 1:1 says that "the Word was God."

(3) Thomas referred to Jesus as "My Lord and my God" in John 20:28, and Jesus did not see the need to correct him.


(4) Isaiah 7:14 gives us the prophecy of the Virgin Birth of Christ and states that His name would be "Immanuel." Matthew 1:23 tells us that this word means "God with us."

(5) In Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is called "Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." The Bible certainly would not say this about anyone less than God.


(6) In John 10:30, Jesus says, "I and my Father are ONE." Jesus is not a lesser god; He is ONE with the Father.


(7) Micah 5:2 tells us that Jesus is "from everlasting."

(8) In John 8:58, Jesus tells the Pharisees, "Before Abraham was, I AM." He claimed to be the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14, which is God Almighty.


(9) Jesus allowed others to worship Him (John 9:38; Matt. 14:33; and Luke 24:52), which was forbidden, unless He was God (Rev. 22:9).


(10) Jesus forgave sins (Mark 2:5), which only God can do (Mark 2:7).


(11) The Lord Jesus Christ is omnipresent (Matt. 18:20; 28:20; II Cor. 13:14; I John 5:7). We know He is God because He is capable of being everywhere at once.


(12) Jesus is omniscient (Mark 11:2-6; Matt. 12:40). He is God because He knows all things.


(13) The Lord Jesus is also omnipotent (Rev. 19:6; Matt. 28:18). He has all power.


(14) According to John 1, 1 John 1, Colossians 1, and Hebrews 1, Jesus Christ is the Creator of Genesis 1!


(15) Jesus never sinned! Romans 3:23 says that ALL HAVE SINNED and come short of the glory of God, but Jesus did not sin (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Peter 3:18). So Jesus had to be God.


JESUS IS THE FATHER AND GOD! The perfect, sinless example given to HUMANkind as God in the flesh as a theophany

He set aside his divinity and became flesh as you or I, so thus we have to dig below the surface a bit to gain understanding of this issue.

 

[reddogs]

If by this you mean have an intellectual understanding of the definition of sin, who said he did? A lot of the ground we're treading upon is speculative so I'm open to any new thoughts and I certainly don't proclaim to have right answers. One doesn't have to "know" what sin is to consent to it. Nor do they need to know what sin is to resist it. The point is I know he never once consented to sin, thus never sinned. How his intellectual development looked, I have no earthly idea and I wouldn't presume to guess. Maybe I missed what you were asking though...

Lets look at the following, and see if we can agree on the understanding. The power of God can do much more than we realize and even from birth.......

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Christ had no advantage if we have the same power to fill and sanctify and help us overcome, and we do...

John 3
King James Version (KJV)
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Whether it happens at the womb or after you are born, we have the same power available to us. Thus Christ had no advantage..

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Thus, even though Christ had our fallen nature, He never once consented to sin. Despite the degeneracy of his flesh, he walked uprightly with God and lived an entire earthly life in sinful flesh, and yet without once sinning, thus condemning sin in the flesh.

Andrew
_________

I agree. Jesus lived a sinless life in sinful flesh.

sky

 

[AndrewK788]

Lets look at the following, and see if we can agree on the understanding. The power of God can do much more than we realize and even from birth.......

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Christ had no advantage if we have the same power to fill and sanctify and help us overcome, and we do...

John 3
King James Version (KJV)
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Whether it happens at the womb or after you are born, we have the same power available to us. Thus Christ had no advantage..

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Sounds right to me.

 

[Castaway57]

He set aside his divinity and became flesh as you or I, so thus we have to dig below the surface a bit to gain understanding of this issue.

So, let me see. You must be trying to say that Jesus condemned Himself? Check out what I have bolded in red.

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Jesus came "in the likeness of" NOT exactly like "sinful flesh."

 

[Castaway57]

Thus, even though Christ had our fallen nature, He never once consented to sin. Despite the degeneracy of his flesh, he walked uprightly with God and lived an entire earthly life in sinful flesh, and yet without once sinning, thus condemning sin in the flesh.

Andrew
_________

I agree. Jesus lived a sinless life in sinful flesh.

sky

No; He did this "in the likeness of" not exactly like.

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

 

[Castaway57]

So if man, though created perfect and in God's image, and placed in a perfect environment, through Adam and Eve became transgressors of Gods Law and inherited sin, how did Jesus not have sin at birth.

The Incarnation is not something we will ever be able to fully understand or answer on this side of heaven. In our Fundamental belief #9 we can read the essentials in the first few paragraphs:

The Scriptures reveal a God who has an overwhelming concern for the salvation of humanity. The members of the Godhead are allied in the work of bringing people back into a union with their Creator. Jesus highlighted God's saving love, saying, "'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life'" (Joh_3:16).

The Scriptures declare that "God is love" (1Jo_4:8). He reaches out to humanity "'with an everlasting love'" (Jer_31:3). The God who extends the invitation to salvation is all-powerful, but His love necessitates His permitting each person to have freedom of choice in responding (Rev_3:20-21). Coercion, a method contrary to His character, can have no part in His strategy.

The Divine Initiative. When Adam and Eve sinned, God took the initiative in searching for them. The guilty pair, hearing the sound of their Creator, did not run joyfully to meet Him as they had done before. Instead, they hid. But God did not abandon them. Ever so persistently He called, "Where are you?"

With deep sorrow, God outlined the consequences of their disobedience-the pain, the difficulties that they would encounter. Yet in their absolutely hopeless situation He revealed a wonderful plan promising ultimate victory over sin and death (Gen_3:15).

We should only worry about what we do know - not what we don't.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

We do know that Jesus lived a sinless life in sinful flesh.

sky