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Was it Pharoah's Fault?

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EspressoDuck

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I have a question. I was reading in Exodus the other night and I came across this passage-

(Exodus 10:1, NIV) Then the Lord said to Moses, "Go to Pharoah, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them, that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the Lord."

God hardened Pharoah's heart so that he would not let the Isrealites go. Besides other obvious reasons, would Pharoah go to Hell for that, if it was God almost controlling Pharoah? If you dont understand my question I could make it more clear. Will Pharoah be punished for what God did, hardening his heart and all? This is simply a curious question, and I would appreciate all your responses.

Thanks. ;)
 

Reformationist

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Originally posted by CelandineBaggins
I have a question. I was reading in Exodus the other night and I came across this passage-

(Exodus 10:1, NIV) Then the Lord said to Moses, "Go to Pharoah, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them, that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the Lord."

God hardened Pharoah's heart so that he would not let the Isrealites go. Besides other obvious reasons, would Pharoah go to Hell for that, if it was God almost controlling Pharoah? If you dont understand my question I could make it more clear. Will Pharoah be punished for what God did, hardening his heart and all? This is simply a curious question, and I would appreciate all your responses.

Thanks. ;)

Before I get to the meat of a proper understanding of this issue you must first understand that, due to the Fall, man is naturally rebellious.  It is his nature to rebel against God.  We are, by nature, children of God's wrath (Ephesians 2:3).  If God does not intervene into the nature of man he will naturally rebel.

Now, as to the passage you cite, when the Bible says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, or anyone's heart for that matter, it just means that He withheld His grace and Pharaoh responded to the Israelites according to his fallen nature.  It served God's purpose to have the most powerful man in the world oppose Him.  Pharaoh was the closest example to a sovereign man the world has ever known.  He basically said what would happen and pretty much made it happen.  One of the differences between God and Pharaoh was that things come to pass according to the sovereign Will of God, whereas Pharaoh must do something to make his desires come to pass and even then there is no guarantee.  What shows that he was actually not sovereign was exactly what God showed.  God plainly states that the reason that He put Pharaoh in the position of power was to show the world that God, not Pharaoh, was in charge.  It was to show that God, not Pharaoh, was the one with power.  It was to show that the most powerful human being on the face of the earth was totally, completely, 100% subject to God's sovereign design.

Romans 9:17,18
For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."  Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

To make this verse clearer I will make some substitutions in bolded italics:

Romans 9:17,18
For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."  Therefore He gives grace to whom He wills, and to whom He wills He withholds His grace."

In closing let me restate, God does not work a hardness of heart into anyone's obedient heart.  All that God does is withhold His grace, which He is not obligated to give in the first place, hence the term "grace," and man acts according to his fallen nature.  This, for God's children, is one of the methods by which God exposes us to unrighteousness to conform us to the image of His Son.  Think about it.  How can you learn patience if you never have to exhibit patience?  God brings certain things about by His sovereign control of all creation for the purpose of exposing our weaknesses so that by being exposed we may rid ourselves, through His grace, of these iniquities.  IOW, if you see that you have a problem with anger, God will continually bring about situations wherein you are challenged to respond in a godly way rather than in an ungodly, angry way.  You ever notice that those things that you struggle with continually seem to come into your life?  There's a reason for that.  It is how God shows us our weakness and helps us overcome those weaknesses by recognizing that God's love has covered the multitude of our sins.  We learn what His grace truly is by our weakness.  And, just like Jesus, we learn obedience through our sufferings (Hebrews 5:8).

I hope this helps. :)

God bless
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by Amy
Very good explanation, Reformationist, thanks. We've just discussed a similar topic in our Sunday school class, and that was a deeeeeeep one! :)

Actually, I think I got a bit more indepth than I should have.  CelandineBaggins, let me just sum it up for you.  When the Bible says that God "hardens" someone's heart it just means that God does not give them the grace to overcome their fallen nature that is already in rebellion to God.  It does not mean that He actively does something to change a nature that is trying to be obedient.  Pharaoh's natural response to God, and God's people, was one of enmity. 

God bless
 
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Outspoken

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Personally I think God hardened his heart just like he dealt with people in romans 1, he gave him over to his evil desires...Pharo wanted to be right and make others feel he was right and God gave him over to that. God's wrath is letting you have your own way and dealing with the consequences of your actions.
 
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It doesnt say God left Pharoah alone to his own nature, it says that God actively hardened his heart.

Pharaoh's natural response to God, and God's people, was one of enmity.

So we are to believe that God is now burning him in Hell for doing what is only natural, huh?
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by s0uljah
It doesnt say God left Pharoah alone to his own nature, it says that God actively hardened his heart.

He did actively harden Pharaoh's heat.  He did it by not giving Pharaoh His grace. 

So we are to believe that God is now burning him in Hell for doing what is only natural, huh?

Don't know what you're talking about.  For the record, I know I'm not Catholic so my interpretation carries little weight with you, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong and you always have to argue with what I say.

God bless
 
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EPHRIAM777

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Originally posted by CelandineBaggins
I have a question. I was reading in Exodus the other night and I came across this passage-

(Exodus 10:1, NIV) Then the Lord said to Moses, "Go to Pharoah, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them, that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the Lord."

God hardened Pharoah's heart so that he would not let the Isrealites go. Besides other obvious reasons, would Pharoah go to Hell for that, if it was God almost controlling Pharoah? If you dont understand my question I could make it more clear. Will Pharoah be punished for what God did, hardening his heart and all? This is simply a curious question, and I would appreciate all your responses.

Thanks.


Eph writes...

God did not "harden" Pharoah's heart in that way...!

God knew what Pharoah was like and what he would do before he did it...!

What God allowed was Pharoah to contiune to be himself...he didn't stop him or restrict him...From being what he already was going to be...!

God doesn't somehow get the ultimate blame for it...So Pharoah wasn't "pushed in that direction" by God in any way...!
 
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God doesn't somehow get the ultimate blame for it...So Pharoah wasn't "pushed in that direction" by God in any way...!

I tend to agree. But why do you think Pharoah was the way he was, was it his own fault? Or was it, as Ref would agrue, because of Original Sin?
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by s0uljah
Just offering another opinion to a 13 year old that asked a question.

Never said you shouldn't offer your opinion.  I was referring to the fact that, in offering your opinion, you felt the need to try to directly refute what I said.  If you have a different opinion, post it.  The problem, as I see it, is that you don't seem to think your post serves a purpose unless you are refuting another's post.  Just post your opinion.

God bless
 
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Outspoken

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"It doesnt say God left Pharoah alone to his own nature, it says that God actively hardened his heart."

Yes and if you notice nonaction can result in action. God doesn't sent people to hell, he allows them to choose it by their sin. Nonaction causes consequences.


"He did actively harden Pharaoh's heat. He did it by not giving Pharaoh His grace.
"

EXACTLY!!! Action by nonaction. You go to the bonus round ;)
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by Outspoken
Yes and if you notice nonaction can result in action. God doesn't sent people to hell, he allows them to choose it by their sin. Nonaction causes consequences.

And we were doing so well. ;)

Sorry bro, I'm going to have to disagree with this.  Granted, those who go to hell deserve to, but there is only one Judge, and He's the one who sends people to hell.

God bless
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by Outspoken
"He's the one who sends people to hell. "

Yup, he ALLOWS them to go their by their own sin. He allows them to make their own choice. they sin and it seperates them from God and will continue to do so in hell, for that's what hell is.

People don't "go" to hell.  People are condemned to hell.  Part of that is the judgment of God.  The other part is Him sending them there.  People don't "choose" to go to hell.  To "choose" to go to hell they have to have the option to not go to hell.  When judgment comes, there ain't no choosing.

Please don't turn this into "they choose to sin so they choose to go to hell."  Hell is the the result of God's judgment on the wicked.  Yes they earned it, but no, they did not "choose" hell.  Unbelievers don't even believe in a biblical hell.  How in the world would they choose it?

God bless
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by Outspoken
"People are condemned to hell. "

By their sin as a judgement of God. Correct. Its their sin that sends them there.

"People don't "choose" to go to hell. "

Yeah, they do, they choose to be apart from God. Remember the old saying, "actions speak louder then words."

Okay.  Later.

God bless
 
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EPHRIAM777

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Originally posted by s0uljah
I tend to agree. But why do you think Pharoah was the way he was, was it his own fault? Or was it, as Ref would agrue, because of Original Sin?


Eph says...

My best guess would be...Pharoah was just that type of person..."bull headed" would best describe him...!

His mindset was..."My way or else"....PLUS the fact that "Pharoah" was consided a God in his own right...So a power play of "wills" was involved too...!

We all can be that way at times...but this guy WAS literally the "king" of bull headedness...!

...again my swing at a guess on this...!
 
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Originally posted by Reformationist
Never said you shouldn't offer your opinion.  I was referring to the fact that, in offering your opinion, you felt the need to try to directly refute what I said.  If you have a different opinion, post it.  The problem, as I see it, is that you don't seem to think your post serves a purpose unless you are refuting another's post.  Just post your opinion.

God bless

Ok, you and Gabriel complain if I start threads, and now you are complaining if I respond to threads. I think you would only he happy if I wasn't here to counter your opinions.
 
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