Was Ellen a fulfillment of Joel 2?

Leaf473 · Jul 7, 2023

Hi Everyone,

This thread is basically a continuation of this discussion from the Sabbath and the Law.

Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

Joel 2 sounds like it's talking about a lot of people. Who are the other people who are doing that in modern times? You might be interested in reading Rene Noorbergen's book Prophet of Destiny. He was a reporter for the US army and wrote a number of books including books on Jeane Dixon and...

www.christianforums.com

Everyone welcome to participate, of course

Was Ellen a fulfillment of this prophecy found in Joel 2?

Bible Gateway passage: Joel 2:28-29 - New International Reader's Version

The Day of the LORD Is Coming - “After that, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your old men will have dreams. Your young men will have visions. In those days I will pour out my Spirit on those who serve me, men and women alike.

www.biblegateway.com

If prophecy "...is an identifying mark of the remnant church...", who besides Ellen is demonstrating it? The prophecy in Joel makes it sound like it's a lot of people.

Gary K · Jul 7, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Hi Everyone,

This thread is basically a continuation of this discussion from the Sabbath and the Law.

Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

Joel 2 sounds like it's talking about a lot of people. Who are the other people who are doing that in modern times? You might be interested in reading Rene Noorbergen's book Prophet of Destiny. He was a reporter for the US army and wrote a number of books including books on Jeane Dixon and...

www.christianforums.com

Everyone welcome to participate, of course

Was Ellen a fulfillment of this prophecy found in Joel 2?

Bible Gateway passage: Joel 2:28-29 - New International Reader's Version

The Day of the LORD Is Coming - “After that, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your old men will have dreams. Your young men will have visions. In those days I will pour out my Spirit on those who serve me, men and women alike.

www.biblegateway.com

If prophecy "...is an identifying mark of the remnant church...", who besides Ellen is demonstrating it? The prophecy in Joel makes it sound like it's a lot of people.

The spirit of prophecy is spoken of in Revelation as an identifying mark of God's people at the end of time.

Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Leaf473 · Jul 7, 2023

Gary K said:
The spirit of prophecy is spoken of in Revelation as an identifying mark of God's people at the end of time.

Ellen White died in 1915. Have other people since then been identified as having the gift of prophecy?

pasifika · Jul 7, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Hi Everyone,

This thread is basically a continuation of this discussion from the Sabbath and the Law.

Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

Joel 2 sounds like it's talking about a lot of people. Who are the other people who are doing that in modern times? You might be interested in reading Rene Noorbergen's book Prophet of Destiny. He was a reporter for the US army and wrote a number of books including books on Jeane Dixon and...

www.christianforums.com

Everyone welcome to participate, of course

Was Ellen a fulfillment of this prophecy found in Joel 2?

Bible Gateway passage: Joel 2:28-29 - New International Reader's Version

The Day of the LORD Is Coming - “After that, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your old men will have dreams. Your young men will have visions. In those days I will pour out my Spirit on those who serve me, men and women alike.

www.biblegateway.com

If prophecy "...is an identifying mark of the remnant church...", who besides Ellen is demonstrating it? The prophecy in Joel makes it sound like it's a lot of people.

Acts 2:17 is the fulfillment of Joel 2

Gary K · Jul 8, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Ellen White died in 1915. Have other people since then been identified as having the gift of prophecy?

Not that I know of. But that she is dead makes no difference in the authenticity of the spiritual gifts God gave her. God's timing is always perfect and He knows when things need to happen to accomplish His purposes. I know that by personal experience from what He has done in my life. Human nature hasn't changed and the advice and warnings given are still relevant even though those to whom her writings were addressed have long since passed away. Sin is still sin. Righteousness is still righteousness.

Gary K · Jul 8, 2023

pasifika said:
Acts 2:17 is the fulfillment of Joel 2

There are prophecies that have dual fulfilments such as Malachi's prophecy of the coming of Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord as Jesus' first coming cannot be considered a dreadful event. Yet Jesus considered John the Baptist a fulfillment of that prophecy.

pasifika · Jul 8, 2023

Gary K said:
There are prophecies that have dual fulfilments such as Malachi's prophecy of the coming of Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord as Jesus' first coming cannot be considered a dreadful event. Yet Jesus considered John the Baptist a fulfillment of that prophecy.

Hi, Peter was certain that the event of Pentecost (outpouring of the the Holy Spirit on the people) is what Joel was prophesied about. Acts 2:16

I don't think there is any other fulfillment of Joel 2 event. But it was for the event of Pentecost.

Leaf473 · Jul 8, 2023

Gary K said:
Not that I know of. But that she is dead makes no difference in the authenticity of the spiritual gifts God gave her. God's timing is always perfect and He knows when things need to happen to accomplish His purposes. I know that by personal experience from what He has done in my life. Human nature hasn't changed and the advice and warnings given are still relevant even though those to whom her writings were addressed have long since passed away. Sin is still sin. Righteousness is still righteousness.

I agree 100%

Now... fundamental belief 18:
"This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White."

What We Believe

Official online home of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, a Christian denomination devoted to helping people understand the Bible & find freedom, healing & hope in Jesus.

www.adventist.org

If the SDA Church hasn't had that identifying mark for over 100 years, a reasonable conclusion would be that they are not the remnant Church.

Didn't you say that they have lost their first love? Maybe this has happened:

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 2:5 - New International Version

Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

www.biblegateway.com

Gary K · Jul 8, 2023

Leaf473 said:
I agree 100%

Now... fundamental belief 18:
"This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White."

What We Believe

Official online home of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, a Christian denomination devoted to helping people understand the Bible & find freedom, healing & hope in Jesus.

www.adventist.org

If the SDA Church hasn't had that identifying mark for over 100 years, a reasonable conclusion would be that they are not the remnant Church.

Didn't you say that they have lost their first love? Maybe this has happened:

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 2:5 - New International Version

Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

www.biblegateway.com

Hmmmm. How many centuries did God bear with the Israelites/Jews before He disowned them? Not until they murdered Jesus were they disowned. How often did Abraham fail to obey God before he finally met with God's approval by attempting to sacrifice Isaac?

We really need to understand the love and compassion God has for His people. I lived in rebellion against Him for decades after I walked away from my first love for Him even though He showed His love for me in miraculous ways. He has performed so many miracles in my life it's amazing and I still lived in rebellion against Him.

Leaf473 · Jul 8, 2023

Gary K said:
There are prophecies that have dual fulfilments such as Malachi's prophecy of the coming of Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord as Jesus' first coming cannot be considered a dreadful event. Yet Jesus considered John the Baptist a fulfillment of that prophecy.

Myself, I wouldn't take that as a given. Could dreadful mean like awesome? Like a metaphorical passing away of heaven and Earth that Jesus talks about?

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 3:10 - New American Standard Bible

And the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore, every tree that does not bear good fruit is being cut down and thrown into the fire.

www.biblegateway.com

Gary K · Jul 8, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Myself, I wouldn't take that as a given. Could dreadful mean like awesome? Like a metaphorical passing away of heaven and Earth that Jesus talks about?

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 3:10 - New American Standard Bible

And the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore, every tree that does not bear good fruit is being cut down and thrown into the fire.

www.biblegateway.com

Metaphorical? Peter tells us the elements will melt with fervent heat.

Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Both Peter and Isaiah tell us that God is going to make a new heavens and a new earth.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Leaf473 · Jul 8, 2023

Gary K said:
Hmmmm. How many centuries did God bear with the Israelites/Jews before He disowned them? Not until they murdered Jesus were they disowned. How often did Abraham fail to obey God before he finally met with God's approval by attempting to sacrifice Isaac?

We really need to understand the love and compassion God has for His people. I lived in rebellion against Him for decades after I walked away from my first love for Him even though He showed His love for me in miraculous ways. He has performed so many miracles in my life it's amazing and I still lived in rebellion against Him.

Well... How is the gift of prophecy an identifying mark, then?

Leaf473 · Jul 8, 2023

Gary K said:
Metaphorical? Peter tells us the elements will melt with fervent heat.

Both Peter and Isaiah tell us that God is going to make a new heavens and a new earth.

Right, however, that doesn't mean that every time have an Earth are spoken of it doesn't have a metaphorical meaning.

For example, this happened when Babylon fell

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 13:10 - New American Standard Bible

For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light.

www.biblegateway.com

Gary K · Jul 8, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Well... How is the gift of prophecy an identifying mark, then?

It is because prophecy says it is, Biblical prophecy.

Gary K · Jul 8, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Right, however, that doesn't mean that every time have an Earth are spoken of it doesn't have a metaphorical meaning.

For example, this happened when Babylon fell

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 13:10 - New American Standard Bible

For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light.

www.biblegateway.com

I don't believe that is what happened at the fall of Babylon,but even if it is it's another dual fulfillment prophecy. We can't take one verse out of the surrounding context and build a belief out of it.

Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

That is a prophecy of the last days of earth.

Leaf473 · Jul 8, 2023

Gary K said:
It is because prophecy says it is, Biblical prophecy.

Okay, but... How long does it last? How long can a church be without the gift before they are no longer identified as the remnant Church?

Leaf473 · Jul 8, 2023

Gary K said:
I don't believe that is what happened at the fall of Babylon,but even if it is it's another dual fulfillment prophecy. We can't take one verse out of the surrounding context and build a belief out of it.

That is a prophecy of the last days of earth.

It happened metaphorically at the fall of Babylon, yes?

Gary K · Jul 8, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Okay, but... How long does it last? How long can a church be without the gift before they are no longer identified as the remnant Church?

Only God knows the answer to that question remember Israel was rebellious from before they left Egypt.

Exo 5:20 And they met Moses and Aaron, who stood in the way, as they came forth from Pharaoh:
Exo 5:21 And they said unto them, The LORD look upon you, and judge; because ye have made our savour to be abhorred in the eyes of Pharaoh, and in the eyes of his servants, to put a sword in their hand to slay us.

Leaf473 · Jul 8, 2023

Gary K said:
Only God knows the answer to that question remember Israel was rebellious from before they left Egypt.

If no one knows how long it lasts, how can it be an identifying mark?

The SDA belief is that it is an identifying mark of the remnant Church. The early church had prophets. Can any church that traces their roots back to that early church claim to have the identifying mark of the gift of prophecy?

Gary K · Jul 8, 2023

Leaf473 said:
If no one knows how long it lasts, how can it be an identifying mark?

The SDA belief is that it is an identifying mark of the remnant Church. The early church had prophets. Can any church that traces their roots back to that early church claim to have the identifying mark of the gift of prophecy?

Like I said, God stuck with Israel for thousands of years and they had His mark of their relationship to Him on their bodies.

Can any church claim to have the identifying mark of the gift of prophecy? Yes. Just like anyone can claim to be a Christian. Claiming something doesn't make it true. I don't understand the point of your question as you obviously don't think the SDA church has the mark.

Was Ellen a fulfillment of Joel 2?

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