Was America really founded on Godly principles?

[joshuanazar]

I have recently hear a lot about how America has gotten away from the Godly principles that it was founded on. But, I have read the history books, and America was not founded on Godly principles. It was founded on greed and division.

 

[Xalith]

I have recently hear a lot about how America has gotten away from the Godly principles that it was founded on. But, I have read the history books, and America was not founded on Godly principles. It was founded on greed and division.

Some quick data from wikipedia...

After Columbus' first voyage to the New World in 1492, other explorers followed with settlement into the Floridas and the American Southwest.[58][59] There were also some French attempts to colonize the east coast, and later more successful settlements along the Mississippi River. Successful English settlement on the eastern coast of North America began with the Virginia Colony in 1607 at Jamestown and the Pilgrims' Plymouth Colony in 1620. Early experiments in communal living failed until the introduction of private farm holdings.[60] Many settlers were dissenting Christian groups who came seeking religious freedom. The continent's first elected legislative assembly, Virginia's House of Burgesses created in 1619, and the Mayflower Compact, signed by the Pilgrims before disembarking, established precedents for the pattern of representative self-government and constitutionalism that would develop throughout the American colonies.

So, the settlers who came shortly after Columbus were Christian dissenters who wanted more religious freedom (they didn't like what was going on in England during that time)

The American Revolutionary War was the first successful colonial war of independence against a European power. Americans had developed an ideology of "republicanism" asserting that government rested on the will of the people as expressed in their local legislatures. They demanded their rights as Englishmen, "no taxation without representation". The British insisted on administering the empire through Parliament, and the conflict escalated into war.[77] Following the passage of the Lee Resolution, on July 2, 1776, which was the actual vote for independence, the Congress adopted the Declaration of Independence, on July 4, which proclaimed, in a long preamble, that humanity is created equal in their unalienable rights and that those rights were not being protected by Great Britain, and finally declared, in the words of the resolution, that the Thirteen Colonies were independent states and had no allegiance to the British crown in the United States.

The settlers, who formed the colonies, did not enjoy Britain passing laws without their representation, but yet were taxing them anyways. You could claim greed there, sure. However, could you blame our forefathers for that? Would you want laws passed that you are forced to follow that you have no say in, even though you are paying the government taxes?

Now, obviously, the Bible calls Christians to follow the governments that we are under, and those who started the American Revolutionary War was indeed a sinful action, but yet God used it the Greater Good as He always does.

What followed was a Government centered on Freedoms, and the ability that all people (except women and slaves) had a say-so in government, through elected officials. Now, of course, the government was full of pride, and a self-righteousness and did a lot of things we'd see as Evil today (such as the slaughter of the Native Americans who they forced into reservations), but yet I still believe that at the core of the founding forefathers was Christianity; they wanted to found a "better way" to do government, so that humans could have rights and religious freedom (which was one of the major reasons why they left England in the first place).

Now, obviously, not everything the US Government has done was good. On the contrary, we (the nation collectively) did a lot of evil. However... were we not a huge benefactor of the Jews in WWII? Did God not use us for Good over the years our Nation has existed?

Sadly, we've plunged into a deep sin, and I fear that Judgment is coming sooner than a lot of people are thinking. I bet a majority of Americans aren't even aware of what is actually going on, when you see "Christians" going to Church for an hour a week, but for the rest of the 167 hours in their weeks, not a single thought goes to God or Christ.

I assume this thread was created in response to the "Hypocrisy" thread, and I'm going to say it slightly different in this thread:

If a Revival were to happen in the US today... it would require that "Christians" realize what they are doing, that they are Professing but not Doing the Commandments of Christ -- they are claiming to know Him, but not doing his will, and that is actually turning away from their sinful lives. They continue to live in idolatry, only this idolatry is not worshipping idols of stone; it is the worship of the idols of material gains. Buying a new phone every few months, even though the last one worked just fine. Buying a new car every few months, just to say they have a new car to compete with the Joneses. Trying to get a better job to accumulate more wealth. Busying themselves, working overtime, to gain more money to buy more things, to flaunt their wealth.

Meanwhile the poor get poorer, there's very little compassion for the poor these days, those who are on welfare are scorned.

Church-going people who claim to be Christians, meanwhile, walk right past the beggars on the street, while wearing their expensive suits and ties, sit in the pews for an hour and then walk right past the beggars on the street and drive home in their $25,000+ car that they just bought a few months ago to replace their one-year-old car so that they can sit in front of the TV and take in several hours of filthy TV programming.

Of course, not everybody is like this, but many are.

For them to change, they have to acknowledge their sin. They have to acknowledge what they are doing is wrong. They have to acknowledge they are not giving enough of their lives to God. They have to acknowledge that they are not doing the will of Christ. They are living in habitual sin, not seeming to care or realize what they are doing.

 

[com7fy8]

I have been one to criticize America. But I would say we have had really Christian people here, though not everyone. So, this is what I think I can feed on. For one example, I read that there was a time when a lot of settlers had problems with tribal people and there was fighting, but one missionary had gone into Rhode Island and lived with a village of tribal people. While others were fighting and getting in trouble with tribals, he was making himself at home with his tribal neighbors.

I can see how it worked. Our Apostle Paul says,

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." (1 Corinthians 9:19-22)

So, I can see that the missionary and Paul possibly would join in the real lives of ones they were reaching to. As long as something was not anti-God, they would adopt it with the people they so loved and desired to have as their own brothers and sisters in Jesus.

So, now most of the locals of the fifty-state country on this continent are "Americans"; we can reach to them in their real lives It doesn't matter what label we give "America" . . . whether it be "Christian" or whatever. We personally care for each one, and God desires to adopt any sinner to become His own child.

And whether she was founded on greed or need or principles or politics or financial relief from English oppression . . . not all people have done things the same way. It is good not to do things out of greed and division; so it is right to say this is wrong. But, also, there are Christian principles which can benefit us, whether all want them or not > they can do us good.

Actually, the Bible says, "And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

I can't say I ever have heard or read of this being a Christian principle which was openly claimed as part of the foundation of the United States of America.

Possibly, the focus was not really on being attentive to God - - not submissive to how our Father rules us in His own peace. But, rather, the focus could have been more on what people wanted for themselves . . . of life and liberty and how they might see fit to pursue happiness. And now, it seems . . . I suspect . . . there is ministering which gives more attention to what we can get from God, versus how to please Him while we enjoy Him and discover how He has us loving one another Jesus people and caring for any and all people. It seems ones talk mostly about what I can get for myself, and which attitude about God will get what is for me. If this is the "Christian principle" that "America" was founded on . . . I would say, uh-uh and oh-oh and too bad.

"If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23)

 

[dragongunner]

Most of the first hundred to 200 years of America Christians came to America fleeing Catholic and religious persecution from not just England but all of Europe also. I have read that at that time 98% of Americans were christians or believed in God, with the other 2% being either catholic, jew or non-believers. I do not believe the Revolutionary war like one poster said was a SIN. They said we are to obey the govt. we are under, well guess what, America had formed a govt, our own govt. It was the British that were becoming less and less christian with their dealings and slowly taking freedom from us, and they started it like Samuel Adams had predicted and warned. One only has to read many, many of the founding fathers statement of belief in God and his involvement in their lives to understand we are a christian nation with Godly foundlings, to think or believe otherwise is not knowing the facts. But realize that in ALL generations their is always the presence of evil working in men, just as in ALL generation their is also God working in mens lives. Today I believe to many have left God for greed and their own ways, and as warned by godly men of old, who helped found our nation, what you sow is what we will reap.

I would encourage anyone wanting to know more about the truth of our country and our founding fathers to go to http://wallbuilders.com

Samuel Adams 1749
Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.

Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
John Adams 1814

Almost all people now believe America is a democracy, your news media and politicians all say it……well they are right in way, about 100 years ago the America was plagued with some very evil people who through govt, changed us from a Republic, to a Democracy, and that has led to very bad things. Until we return to God, the Constitution that I believe was a miracle given to our govt. by God and restore America back to a Republic I don't think we will get over the sickness, our blessing from God I believe are running out. But I pray and hope for revival that i believe is coming, I just don't know what condition we will be in when it does comes, we have drifted so far.

Benjamin Rush, 1806, signer of the Declaration of Independence.
The only foundation for a useful education is a Republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.

John Adams 1798
Our Constitution was made only for a morale and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

 

[Righttruth]

I have recently hear a lot about how America has gotten away from the Godly principles that it was founded on. But, I have read the history books, and America was not founded on Godly principles. It was founded on greed and division.

'The pursuit of happiness' enshrined in the constitution is not a Christian principle.

 

[joshuanazar]

I started this thread in regard to the hypocrisy thread but also because someone preached in my church that America needs to get back to its Godly principles. I think a lot of us are holding on to some idea of America that is not true and it is hindering them.

Of the thirteen original colonies, only three were founded by people escaping religious persecution. The first, Baltimore was a refuge for the Catholics because England under King James was not very tolerant of Catholics. The second, was the Plymouth colony for the Separatists who left Holland not because of persecution, but because they found it to corrupt. And the third were Quakers. Every other colony was established by joint exchange companies looking for for a profit, and proprietorships where the King gave land to his favorites in his court. Georgia was a penal colony to provide a buffer between the English colonies and Spanish Florida. So the majority of these colonies were not founded by those seeking religious freedom, and what can we say about the ones that were? What part of our Bible gave them the right to come take land that belonged to someone else? They were trying to escape persecution so they persecuted others.

I know that some of our founders were Christians, and I respect them. Most all said that they were Christian but that was generally what every European said. Also what part of the Bible says that we can rebel against the nation? The colonies all had governments, but these were all under the Crown. Jesus was clear on taxes. He said "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's". He didn't mention anything about representation. Also I want to point out that that the colonies paid less taxes than the rest of England, Ireland, and Scotland. Let's look at the Stamp Act, a tax placed on paper goods. The English mainland had been under this Stamp Act for years before it was introduced to the colonies. They cried "no taxation without representation", but the funny thing is that at this time. Benjamin Franklin was in London representing his colony. When asked about how the colonists would handle this Act, he said that he didn't see a problem. So, the colonies did in fact have representation. Why the taxes in the first place? To pay for the French and Indian War that Britain fought to protect the colonies. So seeing as these taxes were in response to their nation protecting them, that these taxes were lower than the rest of the British lands, and that there was representation; the revolt was unjustified. Even if that was not the case, the Bible is clear that rebellion is wrong.

Also, Thomas Jefferson, the man who wrote our Declaration of Independence, did not even believe that Jesus was the Son of God. Nor did he believe all of the Bible.

So, which part of our nation was founded on God's principles? I haven't even address how the vast majority of these people still believed that they had a right to enslave people. Well I guess I just did, ha ha.

 

[joshuanazar]

'The pursuit of happiness' enshrined in the constitution is not a Christian principle.

Though God certainly wants us to be happy, Jefferson was quoting John Locke when he posted that we have the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Though John Locke never said pursuit of happiness he said life, liberty, and property. Though Jefferson was a wealthy landowner and did not like the idea of other people having a right to property. Then he might have to give up some of his land to satisfy this right.

 

[dragongunner]

Amazing the lack of truth on subject, but those that hate America seems to only grow. Must be the liberal agenda. Do we have the freedom to worship God in America? Hmmmm wonder how that came about. Every few months someone gets on board and makes themselves the judge to crucify our country, they pick a person or something and because of that we have always been Godless. So which nation on earth was founded on Christian values, lets just pack up and move there. Was it India…..maybe Africa…? Lets just sit back and judge America's faults but are we doing anything to change what we say is or was wrong from the past we claim was wrong or not right. I'm really growing tired of the America bashers that would rather spend time condemning the country….as my pastor once said, "if you can't love the country God gave you, don't tell me your love of God then." And with that I'm off this thread. And we won't even talk about how Paul said.."I wish above all that ye prosper." Oh the ungodliness…..

Wallbuilders.com shining the light on the Truth.

 

[joshuanazar]

Even if you do not come back and read this I still want to make my stance clear. I am not trying to bash this country, I am merely stating the truth. Obviously the truth offends. Now all of my information came from credited sources such as history professors at various universities some christian universities. You cannot try to discredit my statements just because you do not agree with them. And I am definitely not liberal, nor am I conservative. The only nation that was founded on Godly principles that I can name is Israel. I am not saying that our country is full of Godless people, as I said before some of our founders I deeply respect. But I see people so convinced in this view of America that they link their faith to it. Our primary allegiance is to the kingdom of God, not America. Regardless of what you believe about the origin of this nation, you cannot deny that God is not in it now. So you mention freedoms that we have, that other places do not. So I ask knowing that God is not present in our government or courtrooms, can there be any freedom without Christ? What this nation has is the illusion of freedoms. Have you checked out any of the threads here regarding homosexuality? One statement that keeps reappearing is that Christians really don't have freedom to speak their on their beliefs.

The entire point of this thread is to show that we need to put our identity in Christ instead of national pride.

 

[thesunisout]

I have recently hear a lot about how America has gotten away from the Godly principles that it was founded on. But, I have read the history books, and America was not founded on Godly principles. It was founded on greed and division.

All I know for sure is that the Lord has used America to spread the gospel on a scale never before seen in the world.

 

[Xalith]

All I know for sure is that the Lord has used America to spread the gospel on a scale never before seen in the world.

He uses all things, Evil or Good, to do His work. He does not create Evil, nor does He condone it, but He will use it all the same, in ways we could never comprehend.

 

[joshuanazar]

Question. What does Matthew 7:13-14 mean by many people go down the broad path to destruction? Does it mean that the majority of mankind is heading toward destruction? Cause that's what i get from it. Does anybody else agree?

 

[Xalith]

Question. What does Matthew 7:13-14 mean by many people go down the broad path to destruction? Does it mean that the majority of mankind is heading toward destruction? Cause that's what i get from it. Does anybody else agree?

I think that's exactly what it means.

There are many, many unsaved people in the world (Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, Atheism, Heretical "Christianity", and I even know/knew a friend or two who believe in Egyptian gods, if you can believe that).

There are many, many Church-goers (people who profess Christ but are not truly saved) who will say in the Last Day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not do wondrous miracles in your name?" and He will say "Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity; I never knew you". (paraphrasing from the Bible).

The people who go "Lord, Lord" are the ones who claim to know Christ, the people who attend Church regularly, but are those who continue in their habitual sin and don't Repent or make any effort to turn away from their sins.

So... to wrap up... all the Unsaved, and all of the False Christians are heading towards the broad path to destruction. The gate is narrow -- ONLY Saving Faith and Repentance will get you through the Narrow Gate.

This tells me that a small percentage of people will actually make it, sadly.

 

[joshuanazar]

So, if the majority of people are going down the path to destruction, then why would a Godly nation put the power to decide the course of the nation in the hands of the majority. America is proof that the majority will lead us to destruction. If these founders were founding this nation on God's word, then why not found the nation on this verse? Did they pick and choose which principle of God was fit for them while rejecting the rest?

I do not hate America, nor do I love it. I am not trying to bash this country, I just want people to see it for what it is and stop glorifying it for something that it never was.

 

[Xalith]

So, if the majority of people are going down the path to destruction, then why would a Godly nation put the power to decide the course of the nation in the hands of the majority. America is proof that the majority will lead us to destruction. If these founders were founding this nation on God's word, then why not found the nation on this verse? Did they pick and choose which principle of God was fit for them while rejecting the rest?

I do not hate America, nor do I love it. I am not trying to bash this country, I just want people to see it for what it is and stop glorifying it for something that it never was.

Well, today, America is indeed a huge pot of sin. I think everybody (or at least any true Christian) is in agreement there. As far as America as it was back during the late 1700s, well... they wanted a Nation where Freedom was had by all (except for slaves, but that was abolished later). They wanted both Political and Religious freedom.

IMO, I view it like this:

They knew that there were those who were "Godless", and they probably figured that "Religious Freedom" should include them too, as "Religious Freedom" should include people of all faiths, including no faith. That's why "Separation of Church and State" was written into the Constitution, right? They wanted the government and the church to be separate entities, and they wanted a "majority rule" system (aka democracy), as they saw that's the only fair way to do secular government (in their opinion, anyways).

Is it really "founded upon Christianity"? Not really, though I still believe that there are strong Christian roots behind America's beginnings. The fact that they strove towards religious freedom and the separation of church and state made the USA a good place for Christianity to thrive (at least at first).

These days, though, as the sins grow, and science has advanced, and there are athiests everywhere, and there are plenty of heretics around spreading their vile poison, Christianity is suffering in the USA. As Christianity suffers, the Godless are increasing in number and going deeper and deeper into depravity while the Church backslides and apostatizes. Most of those who aren't into heresy or apostasy are arguing over pointless little details instead of loving one another as Jesus commanded us to.

The whole thing is sadly a mess, and I still fear the Second Coming is the only thing that could possibly cleanse it.

 

[NewEnglandGirl]

Everything that I have personally read that comes from before the "politically correct" modern era tells me "YES". Today there are many trying to rewrite and revise our country's past so they can control it's destiny. If you control the past you can dictate the future. There are many today reinterpreting our nation's history to say that we were never a Christian nation or a Christian people.

 

[joshuanazar]

Well, today, America is indeed a huge pot of sin. I think everybody (or at least any true Christian) is in agreement there. As far as America as it was back during the late 1700s, well... they wanted a Nation where Freedom was had by all (except for slaves, but that was abolished later). They wanted both Political and Religious freedom.

IMO, I view it like this:

They knew that there were those who were "Godless", and they probably figured that "Religious Freedom" should include them too, as "Religious Freedom" should include people of all faiths, including no faith. That's why "Separation of Church and State" was written into the Constitution, right? They wanted the government and the church to be separate entities, and they wanted a "majority rule" system (aka democracy), as they saw that's the only fair way to do secular government (in their opinion, anyways).

Is it really "founded upon Christianity"? Not really, though I still believe that there are strong Christian roots behind America's beginnings. The fact that they strove towards religious freedom and the separation of church and state made the USA a good place for Christianity to thrive (at least at first).

These days, though, as the sins grow, and science has advanced, and there are athiests everywhere, and there are plenty of heretics around spreading their vile poison, Christianity is suffering in the USA. As Christianity suffers, the Godless are increasing in number and going deeper and deeper into depravity while the Church backslides and apostatizes. Most of those who aren't into heresy or apostasy are arguing over pointless little details instead of loving one another as Jesus commanded us to.

The whole thing is sadly a mess, and I still fear the Second Coming is the only thing that could possibly cleanse it.

Separation of church and state is not apart of our constitution, Thomas Jefferson wrote about it in a letter to a friend of his. It is not apart of the U.S. constitution.

 

[joshuanazar]

Everything that I have personally read that comes from before the "politically correct" modern era tells me "YES". Today there are many trying to rewrite and revise our country's past so they can control it's destiny. If you control the past you can dictate the future. There are many today reinterpreting our nation's history to say that we were never a Christian nation or a Christian people.

Control the past to control the future? Satan controlled my past. I am not defined by my past.