Real Dangers of Walk to Emmaus - It Ruined My Marriage

[concernedhusband]

I know people who have attended and it was a very positive experience for them. I would be careful before denouncing them as evil. Rather I would pray that God would show me the truth about it. When doing that you need to keep your emotions in check so you don't hear your emotions answering instead of Gods answer

I'm not denouncing the people as evil. I believe the manner in which they are conducting themselves and that organization is wrong. I don't hate the sinners; I hate the sin.

 

[concernedhusband]

Again, thank you for your interest. I appreciate your concern and questions, but I'm not here seeking therapy. And, yes; the experience was very upsetting. I too, agree that there is something very wrong with this Emmaus organization. Emmaus is forming itself as a "church within a church," and this is wrong.

 

[justjan]

I know people who have attended and it was a very positive experience for them. I would be careful before denouncing them as evil. Rather I would pray that God would show me the truth about it. When doing that you need to keep your emotions in check so you don't hear your emotions answering instead of Gods answer

What an interesting justification of brainwashing.

I know people who will swear that Landmark Education is grand and their experience with it is totally positive. They use all the same techniques. Controlled communication, sleep deprivation that other cults use. The problem with Landmark is that it is just EST from the 70's repackaged. It is an evil thing because of what it teaches and how it teaches it. To say that the test of whether a program is good or bad should be based solely on the experiences of the attendant is DANGEROUS.

I don't know anything about Emmaus Road, but I do appreciate it when someone tells me that in the guise of Christian education a group is using brainwashing techniques to accomplish it. There is no precedent in scripture for us doing ANYTHING like this to take us down the path to spiritual maturity. This sort of activity is psychologically based.

You advise the OP not to rely on his emotions to make a decision about this ministry when the ministry itself is structured so that it causes emotional reaction in the attendants.

Thanks to the OP for the heads up about Emmaus.

 

[Sketcher]

That seems very strange because they claim that Emmaus is not intended for recent converts or non-Christians. It would appear that his Emmaus community doesn't follow their own rules either.

He was neither, actually. Some of us who have been forgiven much just have more issues to deal with.

 

[Law of Loud]

I'm not denouncing the people as evil. I believe the manner in which they are conducting themselves and that organization is wrong. I don't hate the sinners; I hate the sin.

Again, thank you for your interest. I appreciate your concern and questions, but I'm not here seeking therapy. And, yes; the experience was very upsetting. I too, agree that there is something very wrong with this Emmaus organization. Emmaus is forming itself as a "church within a church," and this is wrong.

Once again, you're claiming that Walk to Emmaus is a sin, but you're not backing up that statement. Communications were mismanaged and it becomes an automatic insult to Christ everytime it happens, whether it goes right or wrong in the future? Just because you didn't manage to communicate with your wife doesn't mean Emmaus is some diabolical scheme hatched by the Devil. Seriously, what blasphemy or heresy did your wife come home and start spouting? Chrysalis and Emmaus aren't especially heavy on theology in the first place, and that theology which is provided isn't stuff you'd be concerned about, rather being fairly basic Methodist theology.

This is what I'm telling you: Walk to Emmaus is not a sin, and you're imagining things that don't exist about it.

Sleep-deprivation? Not at all. There's plenty of sleeping time at these events. I imagine if you were a person who needed tremendous amounts of sleep, you might get mildly deprived, but it's not as if they're abusing that. I've had much greater sleep deprivation on weekend retreats and summer camps.

If you have evidence to the contrary I welcome it! Tell me about how your wife came home and started spewing out Satanic prayers or such nonsense.

-----

I'm very tired of this bash on a good Christian effort to encourage involvement and participation in the Church by claiming that it is a cult.

Your wife mismanaged communications with you, and this entire program which has done so much for so many people (myself included) is now branded as a "cult" so that you have something easy to blame.

 

[concernedhusband]

Once again, you're claiming that Walk to Emmaus is a sin, but you're not backing up that statement. Communications were mismanaged and it becomes an automatic insult to Christ everytime it happens, whether it goes right or wrong in the future? Just because you didn't manage to communicate with your wife doesn't mean Emmaus is some diabolical scheme hatched by the Devil. Seriously, what blasphemy or heresy did your wife come home and start spouting? Chrysalis and Emmaus aren't especially heavy on theology in the first place, and that theology which is provided isn't stuff you'd be concerned about, rather being fairly basic Methodist theology.

This is what I'm telling you: Walk to Emmaus is not a sin, and you're imagining things that don't exist about it.

Sleep-deprivation? Not at all. There's plenty of sleeping time at these events. I imagine if you were a person who needed tremendous amounts of sleep, you might get mildly deprived, but it's not as if they're abusing that. I've had much greater sleep deprivation on weekend retreats and summer camps.

If you have evidence to the contrary I welcome it! Tell me about how your wife came home and started spewing out Satanic prayers or such nonsense.

-----

I'm very tired of this bash on a good Christian effort to encourage involvement and participation in the Church by claiming that it is a cult.

Your wife mismanaged communications with you, and this entire program which has done so much for so many people (myself included) is now branded as a "cult" so that you have something easy to blame.

I can see that you are quite sincere in your desire to defend the Emmaus movement. While it may be convenient to think otherwise, I am not imagining anything. These events occurred as described in the original posting.

I object to Emmaus on two main points. First, on the treatment received during my wife's walk. Egregious errors were made, and those responsible should be held accountable. And, while I can forgive those who committed the wrongs, I cannot abide them as leaders in the church for, “an overseer must be above reproach.”

Second, the manner in which the Emmaus walks are conducted is not based upon Scripture. Secrecy has no place in our faith and worship. After all, the New Testament tells us, “No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar… Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light.”

How does a group encourage participation by setting itself apart from the remainder of a congregation? Recall that Paul wrote, “make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way.” Likewise, “if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love.” And, he’s not just talking about food, there.

 

[Law of Loud]

I object to Emmaus on two main points. First, on the treatment received during my wife's walk. Egregious errors were made, and those responsible should be held accountable. And, while I can forgive those who committed the wrongs, I cannot abide them as leaders in the church for, “an overseer must be above reproach.”

On the same note if an "overseer must be above reproach", then perhaps there should be no overseers in the Church. After all, nobody is impeccable. Not even the Catholics believe the Pope is impeccable. Even the best among us can sin, and our reaction should be to forgive other's failings.

If you haven't done so I'd suggest that you contact your local Emmaus organization and lodge a complaint about your experience with the organization. Hopefully they'll address the matter and safeguard against it happening again.

Second, the manner in which the Emmaus walks are conducted is not based upon Scripture. Secrecy has no place in our faith and worship. After all, the New Testament tells us, “No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar… Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light.”

How does a group encourage participation by setting itself apart from the remainder of a congregation? Recall that Paul wrote, “make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way.” Likewise, “if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love.” And, he’s not just talking about food, there.

Now, all sorts of groups within the United Methodist Church set themselves apart at least somewhat from the general congregation. In fact, that might almost be a good definition of the word "group". Think about it, United Methodist Men, United Methodist Women, United Methodist Youth, etc... All of these groups are at least somewhat exclusive. Chrysalis/Journey/Emmaus are exactly the same way, in that they're a group bonded together by a shared experience of having some involvement with the aforementioned programs. You don't even need to go on a Chrysalis/Journey/Emmaus. You could volunteer straight off (though you'd never get the opportunity to go on one after you've volunteered, so they really don't encourage that).

The verse you provided equates more to not hiding the fact that you're a Christian. Even then, Chrysalis/Journey/Emmaus aren't exclusive... in fact anybody could go on on, including yourself.

And remember, countless times throughout the Bible the Apostles were surprised. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a bit of secrecy so as to create fantastic surprises such as my experience with the Candlelight Vigil... like I said, that's one of my clearest memories of my uncle.

And as you have already experienced, anybody who really wants to know can figure out all they would want to about Chrysalis/Journey/Emmaus. It's just not considered the norm because it ruins several very special surprises on a very unique weekend.

Pax,
John

 

[Lil'_Miss_Princess_Aimz]

ok.. i dunno if Emmaus is run differently over here in Aus... but i have friends, and friends of my mum who have done this.. an it has only changed their life for the better... wot i have been told is nothing like wot has been said... so yea.. as i said originally, maybe its the place?

 

[wonderwaleye]

Dear Concernedhusband



There seems to be real concern on both sides of the fence of this issue. The same might or could also to applied to CHRISTIAN RETREATS so it is important to establish: 1. Was it wrong?
2. Is this customary?
3. Did the program fail?
4. Did the folks fail?
5. Are you wrong?



You never did answer my questions on my post. I think it might help for us to all understand so I'm going to re post it again and I hope you will answer these questions.



" Dear Concernedhusband

I know your hurting and I want you to know I hurt with you.

" Both the Bible or the gun
can be used for good or
evil "

I have never attended or even know about these meetings.

When JESUS walked this earth
HE met with groups and then left and met privately with HIS Disciples.



I believe that even then someone could of written something similar to your post.


" The biggest mistake I ever made was letting her attend that walk. "


What was the alternative?



" The Emmaus weekend my wife attended was the worst experience of our marriage, and deeply damaged it "

Why? How?


Could it be possible that you lack trust or faith and therefore are unsecure?



The only way to determine a good homing pigeon is to let it go and see if it returns.



Just maybe your wife felt she needed the time alone with those that are striving to grow in their faith.



She could have even gave orders to others not to let you know where she was just because she knows what you would do.



I'm not judging either your wife, your pastor, or you, and I asked the HOLY SPIRIT to loose my hand in writing a reply to you.
Reading your post really bothered me and I knew not what to write.


We must put our complete faith and trust in the LORD because it is then that we know that no matter what happens on this earth, HE WILL SEE YOU THROUGH!!!


NEVER EVER FORGET:



XEven though you can't see Him, GOD is there!O
( click on the X and move to the O ) ( then feel who is around you )

"

 

[TheDag]

I object to Emmaus on two main points. First, on the treatment received during my wife's walk. Egregious errors were made, and those responsible should be held accountable. And, while I can forgive those who committed the wrongs, I cannot abide them as leaders in the church for, “an overseer must be above reproach.”

I agree. If those in charge of this particular weekend did wrong then they do need to be held accountable. However what you have done here is to condemn the entire organization (and everyone involved even if that wasn't your intention.) You have said it is a cult. Cults actually do their best to make sure you don't have involvement with other religious groups. So have they tried to convince your wife to stop attending the church she currently goes to.

As long as you and your wife are communicating then you can both learn and grow from this even if in you opinion it was a bad experience. The bible tells us that in all things God works for the good of those who love him. So even though you've had a bad experience God can work for your good anyway.

Second, the manner in which the Emmaus walks are conducted is not based upon Scripture. Secrecy has no place in our faith and worship. After all, the New Testament tells us, “No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar… Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light.”

Once again this was not the experience of my friends. There was not any secrecy about it.

One other question. In your OP you said that you mentioned the equal commitment rule which states that a spouse must "be informed and in agreement" for the other spouse to attend. You said no such courtesy was given to you. Could you please expand then on how you could agree to let your wife go if you wearn't consulted? Or in other words were you not consulted very well? As has been suggested maybe there was mis-communication somewhere where one person thought things had been explained properly whereas they hadn't. Or maybe it was explained and you didn't quite understand. I know that happens with my wife and I sometimes. Is it not possible that is what happened here?

 

[TheDag]

What an interesting justification of brainwashing.

This shows you did not understand what I wrote. Instead of making wild claims such as I'm trying to justify brainwashing how about asking questions. Maybe it wasn't your intention to make that accusation but that is what you have done. You have just taken the word of the OP as absolute unquestionable fact. My sister went to school one day with a bruised face. When asked what happened she responded by saying her brother hit her. What actually happened was that my brother was holding a small stool and spinning around in a circle and my sister walked too close. I would have asked questions but I noticed others had and therefore didn't want to repaeat those questions. We are still waiting for answers to those questions.

To say that the test of whether a program is good or bad should be based solely on the experiences of the attendant is DANGEROUS.

Just as well I have never advocated doing this

I don't know anything about Emmaus Road, but I do appreciate it when someone tells me that in the guise of Christian education a group is using brainwashing techniques to accomplish it. There is no precedent in scripture for us doing ANYTHING like this to take us down the path to spiritual maturity. This sort of activity is psychologically based.

Interesting how I know people who have not been on the course while their spouses have and haven't accused Emmaus of brainwashing. It could be that there is more to the story or maybe the OP is right. That is why we seek to understand. That is why I spoke to people who have been on the course as well as their spouses who haven't been on the course. From doing that I am getting a very different picture of Emmaus than the one the OP has given so please forgive me for having concerns that the problem is actuall something else or even a problem unrelated to emmaus but rather a problem that has been highlighted by this event taking place.

You advise the OP not to rely on his emotions to make a decision about this ministry when the ministry itself is structured so that it causes emotional reaction in the attendants.

Are you trying to argue that two wrongs make a right here? Thats what it sounds like. If that is not what your saying why does this have to do with anything. Please bear in mind that church services are generally geared to some degree to get an emotional response. So are TV shows. So are commercials. So emotional responses aren't bad but it most certainly is dangerous to rely solely on emotional responses. That is what I said to the OP. I can pray to God and ask him for something and I can hear the answer come back as what I wanted it to be if I don't keep my emotions under control (in check).
However I would prefer to hear Gods answer rather than mine. All I was doing was advising the OP to pray about it and see if it was something wrong that was done or if there was some mis-communication (which could be misunderstanding the meaning of what is said) or if it is just a problem with the way this particular one was organised. I am very careful about saying that something is totally wrong and nobody should have anything to do with that organisation. There is a very fine line between legitimate christian groups and cults in terms of behaviour. Maybe in the area where the OP lives it has crossed that line but that doesn't mean it has done so everywhere else in the world.

 

[justjan]

This shows you did not understand what I wrote. Instead of making wild claims such as I'm trying to justify brainwashing how about asking questions. Maybe it wasn't your intention to make that accusation but that is what you have done. You have just taken the word of the OP as absolute unquestionable fact. My sister went to school one day with a bruised face. When asked what happened she responded by saying her brother hit her. What actually happened was that my brother was holding a small stool and spinning around in a circle and my sister walked too close. I would have asked questions but I noticed others had and therefore didn't want to repaeat those questions. We are still waiting for answers to those questions.


Just as well I have never advocated doing this


Interesting how I know people who have not been on the course while their spouses have and haven't accused Emmaus of brainwashing. It could be that there is more to the story or maybe the OP is right. That is why we seek to understand. That is why I spoke to people who have been on the course as well as their spouses who haven't been on the course. From doing that I am getting a very different picture of Emmaus than the one the OP has given so please forgive me for having concerns that the problem is actuall something else or even a problem unrelated to emmaus but rather a problem that has been highlighted by this event taking place.


Are you trying to argue that two wrongs make a right here? Thats what it sounds like. If that is not what your saying why does this have to do with anything. Please bear in mind that church services are generally geared to some degree to get an emotional response. So are TV shows. So are commercials. So emotional responses aren't bad but it most certainly is dangerous to rely solely on emotional responses. That is what I said to the OP. I can pray to God and ask him for something and I can hear the answer come back as what I wanted it to be if I don't keep my emotions under control (in check).
However I would prefer to hear Gods answer rather than mine. All I was doing was advising the OP to pray about it and see if it was something wrong that was done or if there was some mis-communication (which could be misunderstanding the meaning of what is said) or if it is just a problem with the way this particular one was organised. I am very careful about saying that something is totally wrong and nobody should have anything to do with that organisation. There is a very fine line between legitimate christian groups and cults in terms of behaviour. Maybe in the area where the OP lives it has crossed that line but that doesn't mean it has done so everywhere else in the world.

I was clear in my response that the test of any teaching or any teaching method ought to be Gods word.

If we test based on results we fail to recognize that our viewpoint, our emotions and our biases effect what we might consider a good outcome vs what we might consider a bad one. God has graciously given us a ruler to measure against and that ruler never changes.

I agree with you that it entirely possible that this one group made a rather severe error that doesn't mean the whole concept is flawed. However, it does speak to a the idea that one ought not to take any Christian training with the idea that they just go and soak everything up without testing it against the word.

My comments on emotion were directed at our tendency to seek after teachers who make us feel good, who play to our emotion. We tend to hold those people up as men of God even though they teach very little from God's word. Some of the most popular "churches" here in the US aren't really churches at all. They do not teach about God, they do not worship God. They use God's word for the purpose of self-help and to the extent that they make people self-centered and lift their confidence they are INCREDIBLY popular.

We need to recognize as Christians that we have a tendency to do that and be wary of feeding that need for emotion under the guise of spiritual growth.

 

[Hisgirl]

http://www.upperroom.org/emmaus/

Walk to Emmaus is a highly, highly respected program that has been attended by thousands and thousands of Christians as a renewal time with God. If an attendee is receiving phone calls and inquiries from home, the focus will be on home instead of the weekend. I know many, many intelligent respectable friends who can't say enough good about their weekend. Please be careful how we make rash judgements based on one person's experiences. Read about it for yourself. Blessings.

 

[wonderwaleye]

Things are not always what they seem to be.



If you will notice my questions have not been answered and I think for good reason.



Insecurity is a real hurt. It can produce all sorts of images. Put yourself in his place. If he was insecure with his wife he might of been going out of his mind thinking all sorts of things.



This is not uncommon with folks on all sorts of issues. It takes trusting in the LORD to rid yourself of these feelings.



Once you know GOD is in charge and will stand by you no matter what, then these demons disappear.



I feel he was hurt and just striking out. This is not uncommon when dealing with the unknown.



You might consider this in your posts.




YOU NEED TO HELP HIM KNOW AND REMEMBER:




XEven though you can't see Him, GOD is there!O
( click on the X and move to the O ) ( then feel who is around you )

 

[concernedhusband]

First, I thank you all for your prayers and kind words. Please know that my relationship with my wife is healing. However, all other details of our relationship shall remain private. This is why I have not answered questions.

As was pointed out earlier, the only test that matters about anything is whether or not it is supported scripturally. In this area, I am not conviced that all of the elements that make Emmaus unique pass this test. I do not intend to argue this point any further. I stand by my original post.

Again, thank you all for the time and energy required to respond. I appreciate your thoughts and prayers, and my prayers are for you, as well. This is the last communication I will post on this board.

 

[choiralto]

Walk to Emmaus taught me to LOVE Jesus! My husband and I have been active since our "pilgrim" Walks in 2001. I'm sorry this person had such an unfortunate experience, but I can tell you quite the opposite.

While events are indeed "choreographed" to maximize emotional impact, there is no coercion or brainwashing of any kind, at any time. Participants are fed VERY well, plenty of time (nine hours/day) is allowed for sleep, and anyone who wished to leave may do so at any time . . . though in the end very few people want to. Any secrecy is only designed to preserve a few surprises the Team has planned, and if you really have a problem with that, most sensible Emmaus people will tell you you exactly what's going on.

 

[annie1speed]

Concerned Husband,

I know nothing about this Emmaus Walk, but I do know how important communication is in a marriage, and how frustrating it can be when people outside your marriage do not respect that importance.

I have read with interest the responses to your concerns, and am particularly concerned with the responses of Law of Loud. This person is only 19 years old, and admittedly had not participated in this program, but because of their participation in a similar program, they can assure you that your concerns are unfounded. Law of Loud is in no position to speak to your concerns. At one point they even seem to accuse you of fabricating this whole incident.

Law of Loud, it is not my intention to criticize you personally, but until you have been there - you really don't understand. Perhaps someday when you are married and a little older, you will understand that your husband or wife is your life partner, and should be your best friend. Free and open communication is the lifeblood of a successful marriage. Anything that jeopardizes that is reasonable cause for concern.

I am not saying that husband and wife should be joined at the hip, and neither one can participate in something without the other. There should be enough mutual trust and respect that the wife should be able to go and do things with friends, and so should the husband. But I absolutely agree with concerned hubby here that no secrets should be brought between them.

I don't necessarily tell my husband EVERYTHING I think or am told, but I never promise NOT to tell him something. When I am told 'you can't tell anybody', my response is 'anybody but my husband, otherwise just don't tell me'. And he is the same way. Not everyone feels this way and I can respect that, but don't make this man out to be the bad guy because he doesn't like folks messing with his family life.

Please keep this in mind: Any program can have the best of intentions and most honorable of motives by its founders and primary directors or coordinators. However, if that program is coordinated by less than honorable people on the local level, ANY program can become detrimental to its participants.

I am leery of any program that is not open to honest, constructive criticism. That comment that you should be careful before you accuse these folks of being evil kinda makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

Annie

 

[TheDag]

I've seen so many Christian's lives destroyed by the Emmaus walk, exactly as you are seeing it.

So what do we do? Heaps of people have been helped greatly by Emmaus and some here have testified to that. Also bear in mind the number of people in the world who have been hurt by the church. That doesn't mean we condemn the church and disband it and tell everyone to work things out for themselves. Rather it means in evrything we do we need to check it out against scripture to see if it is useful in our growth. That includes churches as well as things like Emmaus.

 

[TheDag]

Sorry but I only just saw this response.

I was clear in my response that the test of any teaching or any teaching method ought to be Gods word.

If it was clear in your response then you should not have accused me of trying to justify brainwashing when I suggested we should seek the truth of the matter from God. Simple as that

 

[JDIBe]

Some of you may already know about a movement being popularized by the Methodist Church called "Walk to Emmaus." If not (or even if so), then let me share my experience with you.

After years of marriage, two children, and numerous life challenges, the only thing that has ever divided my wife and I was the Emmaus walk she attended last year. The biggest mistake I ever made was letting her attend that walk. She was taken from our home, and we were not told where she was going. Neither was she supposed to communicate with us. This type of secrecy is evil, and not scripturally based.

I became further alarmed when I learned of the mind control techniques employed during the weekend. Very carefully choreographed acts combined with sleep deprivation lead the participants to a feeling of love and euphoria. This is the same strategy employed repeatedly by numerous cults.

Following the weekend, participants are encouraged to join “reunion groups.” These are groups of Emmaus graduates that meet together periodically. However, their meetings are conducted in secret, and outsiders are not welcome.

Most infuriating were the lies told to me by our pastor when he was questioned about the walk. He claims there are no secrets. Yet, information about the weekend is not readily available to outsiders. He claimed the reunion meetings are not held in secret – but rather they simply don’t tell outsiders when or where they occur. That sounds like the definition of a secret to me.

The organizers don’t even follow their own rules. The “equal commitment rule” on the pilgrim application states that no pilgrim shall be approved to attend a walk unless their spouse (who has not attended) is informed about the walk and is in agreement. No such courtesy was paid to me.

The Emmaus weekend my wife attended was the worst experience of our marriage, and deeply damaged it. Rules were broken by the organizers of the event, and no consideration was shown to me or our children. I felt completely abandoned.

I discourage everyone from participating in Emmaus events. I pray daily for the end of the Emmaus movement, and that God will show Emmaus adherents the error of their ways, and change their hearts. Emmaus is truly a divisive force in congregations, and must be eliminated completely.

Just curious, I've read a lot about how you felt about it.

How did your wife feel about it?