War and the Christian

[MrJim]

An Anabaptist Perspective

This will simply be a collection of scriptures regarding the historical anabaptist view of not engaging in war. I will be adding to this regularly, and feel free to participate or ask questions.

As a background I will note a passage from the Schleitheim Confession of 1527:

Sixth. We are agreed as follows concerning the sword: The sword is ordained of God outside the perfection of Christ. It punishes and puts to death the wicked, and guards and protects the good. In the Law the sword was ordained for the punishment of the wicked and for their death, and the same [sword] is [now] ordained to be used by the worldly magistrates.
In the perfection of Christ, however, only the ban is used for a warning and for the excommunication of the one who has sinned, without putting the flesh to death, -- simply the warning and the command to sin no more.
Now it will be asked by many who do not recognize [this as] the will of Christ for us, whether a Christian may or should employ the sword against the wicked for the defence and protection of the good, or for the sake of love.
Our reply is unanimously as follows: Christ teaches and commands us to learn of Him, for He is meek and lowly in heart and so shall we find rest to our souls. Also Christ says to the heathenish woman who was taken in adultery, not that one should stone her according to the law of His Father (and yet He says, As the Father has commanded me, thus I do), but in mercy and forgiveness and warning, to sin no more. Such [an attitude] we also ought to take completely according to the rule of the ban.
Secondly, it will be asked concerning the sword, whether a Christian shall pass sentence in worldly disputes and strife such as unbelievers have with one another. This is our united answer: Christ did not wish to decide or pass judgment between brother and brother in the case of the inheritance, but refused to do so. Therefore we should do likewise.
Thirdly, it will be asked concerning the sword, Shall one be a magistrate if one should be chosen as such? The answer is as follows: They wished to make Christ king, but He fled and did not view it as the arrangement of His Father. Thus shall we do as He did, and follow Him, and so shall we not walk in darkness. For He Himself says, He who wishes to come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Also, He Himself forbids the [employment of] the force of the sword saying, The worldly princes lord it over them, etc., but not so shall it be with you. Further, Paul says, Whom God did foreknow He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, etc. Also Peter says, Christ has suffered (not ruled) and left us an example, that ye should follow His steps.
Finally it will be observed that it is not appropriate for a Christian to serve as a magistrate because of these points: The government magistracy is according to the flesh, but the Christians' is according to the Spirit; their houses and dwelling remain in this world, but the Christians' are in heaven; their citizenship is in this world, but the Christians' citizenship is in heaven; the weapons of their conflict and war are carnal and against the flesh only, but the Christians' weapons are spiritual, against the fortification of the devil. The worldlings are armed with steel and iron, but the Christians are armed with the armor of God, with truth, righteousness, peace, faith, salvation and the Word of God. In brief, as is the mind of Christ toward us, so shall the mind of the members of the body of Christ be through Him in all things, that there may be no schism in the body through which it would be destroyed. For every kingdom divided against itself will be destroyed. Now since Christ is as it is written of Him, His members must also be the same, that His body may remain complete and united to its own advancement and upbuilding.


And so we'll take a look at some passages, some well known and perhaps some you may have not considered...


Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
(Mat 5:38-48)


I underlined some key words and sentences, but the final sentence is vital. Idea here is that as God's love, grace and mercy is given to all, so must ours. We are to be as Christ in recognizing a sense of equality in people, whether they are brothers or neighbors, friends or enemies, in equally expressing the love, grace, and mercy. Love, bless, do good, and pray doesn't in anyway include causing harm to someone.



So someone will say, how can we be perfect? Through God's grace is the only answer to that, and keep in mind that when ya fall, ya get back up and continue the race...perhaps the perfection isn't in winning the race but in finishing.

 

[MrJim]

Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
(Rom 12:17-21)

A great ending to a great chapter.

The sentence "If it be possible..." is interesting, and seems to imply that there is some level where one can't live peaceably with others, but doesn't give any OK for violence.

Otherwise this needs no explanation.

[Now some will say "Hey, you have to now read Romans 13 which says to follow the gov't". We'll cover that in due time; I will just say for now that there is a difference between obedience & submission, and submission is what Rom 13 deals with.]

 

[~InHisHands~]

I have one question.

While I don't like war and violence, there is one thing I don't understand. Are Americans supposed to just sit back and let Iraq attack us and kill us all or let them come in and take over the country? Without this war isn't that what would happen? Ok, I lied. I had 2 questions.

 

[Danfrey]

Hi Red,

I can answer both of the questions that you pose. There is a misconception that Anabaptists would like to take away a government's right to defend itself. Governments, as part of the worldly kingdom have a right to wage war. Christians as part of a heavenly kingdom that does not have earthly borders do not have a right to participate in war. When Jesus told us to love our enemies, he did not leave a loophole for government endorsed violence.

As far as Iraq, there has a been a continued attempt to link the "War on Terror" and 9/11 with Iraq, but the truth is they are unrelated. It is creative politics that tries to appease the American people who are growing weary of this war.

One final thought. Jesus was born into a Jewish nation that was under occupation by a hostile foreign government. If he would have opposed Rome, he would likely have been accepted by many for Jews as the Messiah, but his focus was on the heavly kingdom, rather than the earthly.

 

[~InHisHands~]

"Governments, as part of the worldly kingdom have a right to wage war. Christians as part of a heavenly kingdom that does not have earthly borders do not have a right to participate in war."

This I get. Thank you for answering that for me.

 

[MrJim]

But since the church--the Kingdom of God, the disciples & followers of Christ-- is separate from the world we do not engage in these conflicts, as the continuing series of scripture passages will point out.

Christian & American are not the same thing...

 

[~InHisHands~]

Gotcha

 

[MrJim]

Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
(1Pe 3:8-13)

 

[~InHisHands~]

Deuteronomy 20:10
When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace?
Sorry. This just confuses me.

 

[MrJim]

Deuteronomy 20:10
When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace?
Sorry. This just confuses me.

An easy thing to remember is that there is a reason that it's called the "Old Testament". The old covenant has been fulfilled in the New Testament.

Anabaptist teaching is "Christocentric"--that is to say, instead of reading the Bible from front to back, we look at it from the Gospels out. Since the NT is our new covenant with God that is the focus of our study and where we get our teaching. Unfortunately many, if they cannot find scripture to support what they want to believe, will grab something from the old testament to justify it.

 

[MrJim]

Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
(1Th 5:14-15)

This is an interesting passage, since it clearly shows the two groups of people in the world, brothers & neighbors, and it tells us that we are to treat each the same in regards to doing good and not rendering evil for evil.

 

[MrJim]

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds
(2Co 10:3-4)

Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
(Eph 6:11-12)

As spoken about in the Spiritual Warfare thread, our battle is not against men.

 

[catlover]

I have one question.

While I don't like war and violence, there is one thing I don't understand. Are Americans supposed to just sit back and let Iraq attack us and kill us all or let them come in and take over the country? Without this war isn't that what would happen? Ok, I lied. I had 2 questions.

When did Iraq attack us? 9-11 was, allegedly, Al Quida, which is in Afganistan.

 

[~InHisHands~]

When did Iraq attack us? 9-11 was, allegedly, Al Quida, which is in Afganistan.

Oh well, excuse me then.

 

[~InHisHands~]

Menno:
Ok. Thanks for explaining that.

 

[catlover]

Oh well, excuse me then.

That's okay! Unfortunately, many people equate Iraq with Afganistan, that is not the case.

I know little of the history of Afganistan and Iraq but I do know the U.S and Russia was involved in a civil war in Afganistan and The U.S was invovled with the Iran Iraq war. Somehow this country was giving arms to BOTH sides...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

 

[MrJim]

That's okay! Unfortunately, many people equate Iraq with Afganistan, that is not the case.

I know little of the history of Afganistan and Iraq but I do know the U.S and Russia was involved in a civil war in Afganistan and The U.S was invovled with the Iran Iraq war. Somehow this country was giving arms to BOTH sides...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

...again, let me emphasize the difference between US & the Kingdom of God. Al Qaeda did not attack me, nor did it attack the church. It attacked the United States, a country in which God has placed us as ambassadors of His Kingdom. An ambassador is a representative of another country (if you will), another nation.

Which is a good lead in...

For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things: Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts.
(Eph 6:20-22)

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, (Phi 3:20)

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come. By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
(Heb 13:12-15)

If indeed the attack would be against the church Jesus Christ dealt with that also:

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
(Mat 5:10-12)

These things I command you, that ye love one another. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
(Joh 15:17-21)

It's almost too simple, for you see, even the terrorists are our neighbors...

 

[~InHisHands~]

That's okay! Unfortunately, many people equate Iraq with Afganistan, that is not the case.

I know little of the history of Afganistan and Iraq but I do know the U.S and Russia was involved in a civil war in Afganistan and The U.S was invovled with the Iran Iraq war. Somehow this country was giving arms to BOTH sides...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

Actually my question had little to do with the who or the where. It was more the what and the why.

 

[~InHisHands~]

...again, let me emphasize the difference between US & the Kingdom of God. Al Qaeda did not attack me, nor did it attack the church. It attacked the United States, a country in which God has placed us as ambassadors of His Kingdom. An ambassador is a representative of another country (if you will), another nation.


It's almost too simple, for you see, even the terrorists are our neighbors...

First of all, they're not being very neighborly.

Ok, let's go with this ambassadorship for a moment. If the government (has) chosen to follow the christian command of not raising their swords to the enemy, what do you suppose would've happened after 9/11?

*Edit* replace has with had.

 

[MrJim]

First of all, they're not being very neighborly.

Ok, let's go with this ambassadorship for a moment. If the government (has) chosen to follow the christian command of not raising their swords to the enemy, what do you suppose would've happened after 9/11?

*Edit* replace has with had.

Not really an issue Red. Whatever the US gov't decides to do matters little to me, just as whatever the gov't of Canada, China, or Ghana does. We as Christians are to be about the work of the Father.

The gov't is not going to be a Christian gov't. It may have some traits of Christianity, but Christ did not call us to create a worldly kingdom.

Consider:

Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.
(Joh 6:14-15)


Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews? Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done? Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
(Joh 18:33-37)

There were plenty of folks that wanted a "Christian" gov't with Christ as head and He would not do it.

So then afterwards history is full of those that wanted to create a "Christian Gov't" and it didn't work out too well. Christ does not want to the church to wield the sword...

Consider:

It gets to where if people don't believe in the "Official" church then the heresy hunts begin...