Wanting divorce

[Observer]

Hello,
I am still struggling in my marriage and have been for years.Married 6 years, together for 10 years. When I was 18, he left his country to be with me which he resents. He worked hard and I was lazy and didn't work, then he stopped working and I took on the financial responsibilities for the last 3 years or so. There has been domestic violence in the past on both sides, with him causing more physical injury than I can and no remorse at the time. A lot of name calling, constant fighting. Some issues with sex - either a lot, or none, due to our up/down relationship. I can't stand that he won't work. He won't follow what the bible says about Christian marriage. He's Christian, I follow Christianity but don't feel saved, husband says I'm not. He uses it against me in fights and says he has no responsibility in showing me Christianity, says I'm a big girl and can figure it out myself if I wanted to. He uses bits of the bible to point out that I'm bad and not good enough, then refuses to read verses about husbands' responsibilities. We've had to move in with my mother, forced to as he won't work. I hate it. I'm not allowed to say he won't work because he's starting his own business in music (which contribures no money to our life) and is doing a college degree which he fails most subjects, in his mind this stuff is good enough and justifies not working, and calls me materialistic for wanting anything more. I'm 28 and he says we're never having kids. Don't know if I could handle them but would be nice if there was any stability to potentially consider it. Just feels like none of my needs will ever be met. I want a traditional marriage and he used to be all about that. But I didn't help him with the workload years ago and didn't want sex enough, didn't appreciate it. I was depressed, lazy and miserable after years of panic disorder, it's like I went into hibernation. Now it feels like it's payback as the tables have turned. He has said every horrible thing to me and that he doesn't care about my needs, I say emasculating disrespectful things. I am not sure how to be a good wife when he tells me he doesn't care about my needs and I should just get over having no home/trust/money etc. Our last fight became violent as I did an 18 hr shift and was sleep deprived, in the afternoon I told him I wanted the bed to myself (he snores), which turned into hitting and me getting pushed out of the bed and hit etc. I just hate this situation, it feels like he will never want to change. I am sick of double standards, hypocrisy and complete neglect. I struggle with lust outside the marriage. Neither of us have ever cheated, but emotionally I have sinned to some degree. I find myself more attracted to other guys as I'm getting older.

 

[johnbastion]

*[[1Pe 3:1-9/NASB]]* %v 1% In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, %v 2% as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior. %v 3% Your adornment must not be merely external--braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; %v 4% but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. %v 5% For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; %v 6% just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear. %v 7% You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered. %v 8% To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; %v 9% not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing.

 

[Aino]

Ok, seriously. You need to leave him as soon as possible - physical OR verbal abuse is never ok in a marriage and that's just common sense. From your post I understand that he's not interested in changing or getting any help. Take a divorce, do your best to throw him away, get some friends for help, sue him, sell the house and don't tell him your new address, whatever it takes but just get rid of that person. You'll lose your life with him! Do you guys have any contact to a church? Maybe you could get some help there? How much does your family know? Or your friends? Maybe if you made some details public he'd find it nasty enough to leave himself?

 

[johnbastion]

Ok, seriously. You need to leave him as soon as possible - physical OR verbal abuse is never ok in a marriage and that's just common sense. From your post I understand that he's not interested in changing or getting any help. Take a divorce, do your best to throw him away, get some friends for help, sue him, sell the house and don't tell him your new address, whatever it takes but just get rid of that person. You'll lose your life with him! Do you guys have any contact to a church? Maybe you could get some help there? How much does your family know? Or your friends? Maybe if you made some details public he'd find it nasty enough to leave himself?

Divorce is not permitted unless it is for the reason of infidelity.

If you are being physically abused stay apart for a fixed time.

It is possible for you to win him back according to 1Pet.3.1.

God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16)
You have been united together by the Lord. (so is every non-Christian marriage too. Cos, if not, it would have been okay for a Christian man to marry a woman who was not married according to the Christian way)

It is faith to believe that God is more interested in restoring your marriage than you are.

And when your husband eventually realizes how much you've been struggling to get your marriage back together, he'll be forever grateful.

The key is 1Pet.3.1
God bless.

 

[ValleyGal]

We are not to advocate for divorce on this forum, but I am not going to advocate staying together with an abusive husband, either. Since there is part of you that really wants him to love you like he should, it's important that he learn what it means to be the Christian he says he is, and to be the husband God has called him to be - that is, to model Jesus to his wife. Since he seems unwilling to look at his own character flaws (blame, resentment, self-righteousness, etc) then maybe you need to do a study on the whole subject of divorce and what is or is not permissible biblically. Here are a few resources:
If you want to influence your husband in a positive direction, there is a book called "Sacred Influence" by Gary Thomas
If you want to work together on your marriage, there is a workbook-style book called "Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" by Dr. John Gottman and Nan Silver
If you want to study divorce and the whole marriage issue from a biblical perspective, there is www.divorcehope.com
If your husband becomes willing to work on his own part in the marriage, Gary Thomas has another book that would be good for both of you, which is "Sacred Marriage"

You are in a very bad situation, where you are likely living in a heightened state of fight, flight or freeze - stress response. It is important to take care of yourself, find a way to remove yourself from the situation so you are able to think clearly and also I would recommend seeking mentorship from an older woman in your church. Your husband is not doing a very good job of making you a disciple, so you need someone else who is able to model the love of Christ, especially while all this is going on.

 

[HannahT]

You need to speak with a domestic violence shelter. Many people - both men and women - that have habitually been abused at times retaliate in response. Its human nature. I'm not endorsing it of course, but common sense needs to be applied here. It by no means places you on the same level.

You and your mother need to realize something is seriously wrong with this man, and your safety is the utmost importance.

John used the Malachi verse, but let's look at the whole thing. 16 For I hate putting away, saith Jehovah, the God of Israel, and him that covereth his garment with violence, saith Jehovah of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.

If you read the entire chapter violence and hypocrisy is the key theme that the Lord is against. They claim one thing, and live another.

I find that when people educate themselves more on what they are dealing with they have a better time actually going through the motions of really dealing with it. It will not easy - any path you take. My prayers are with all of you.

 

[HondaMan]

You come home after an 18 hour shift and he doesn't get it that you're tired and need to rest?

Even if you're waiting on divorce, you can leave apart. I suggest you find your own place and live separately for a while. Maybe that will wake him up. If not, your choice. Since you make good money and he doesn't, let him suck his bills up.

P.S. You're not a saint either, but if a man knew how to treat his queen, she'd treat him as her king.

 

[Messy]

Divorce is not permitted unless it is for the reason of infidelity.

http://www.bethinking.org/bible/bible-scandals/5-marital-abuse

 

[beaverpond]

There are parts of me that sit here reading this and completely understand what you are going through. However, I cannot support divorce either. To read the Bible and put it into practice is two totally and separate things. Neither of you is putting it into practice, so by going what you describe it does not sound like either of you is acting too Christian like at the moment.

I have seen and heard of cases in my own family where the wife is the abuser and the husband will not react. Good for him...yes or no. Well it depends on how you look at it. Wife is smashing his head with a cast iron frying pan because he won't do as she asks him to do (she can't have her way, she treats like a slave and he is in his 80s). He refuses to file a complaint, he just takes it. Relatives have seen it and also refuse to file a complaint, just as guilty in my book. She swears at him. However, she has beat on other family members and has been removed from the property of those and now is not allowed to return. She has been verbally abusive to another family member to the point that phone numbers and e-mail addresses have been changed and they moved to get away from her and they left no forwarding address because she would show up and verbally harass this family. She would do this to this family just to get what she wants. She now has almost zero friends left and the few she has left refuse to see the problem and think that everybody is ganging up on her. They refuse to see the real problem. Some of the relatives have now stepped forward with a log book of incidents of what has taken place on what date and what time and are going to take it to the state before she does harm to another individual or repeated harm to somebody within the family.

I know of another family who had grounds for divorce, his ex-wife had more than 15 affairs while they were married and those are just the ones that she admitted to. She was struggling to remember all the names in their five years of marriage. It did not take long for a judge to grant the divorce nor did it take the judge long to decide who was getting what...assets, kids, debts, etc... While he still loved her, he could not figure out why she did this to him and it took him a very long time to date another young lady as he too got married young, too young perhaps.

When looking at case of the older couple, we are not looking for a positive outcome in that case. Either something is going to happen to her, legally speaking...or something is going to happen to somebody else. Either way this is a no win situation unless they both admit they need help, him to stay alive and her to stop physical and emotional abuse as well as harassment.

Now you may be thinking, how does this apply to me. Well, look at how you can support him in his idea of a music business and how to get it off the ground. What does he not have that he could use. Show him some compassion in this way. Find a church that also has a sound system to his liking where he can also tinker a little by serving the Lord and the both of you can be fed by hearing his word on a regular basis. Getting into this type of environment will clean up his act, his language, your act, your language...both of your hearts and get you both on the right paths again. Will it happen over night probably not, but you have to start somewhere. Ask if he is willing to do any of this. Pick out a bunch of churches, let him decide which one in the end even if you don't totally agree on it. Heavens to betsy, my wife and I could not agree on a church for five years. We did not regularly attend a church for five years and it had disastrous affects on our marriage during that time, but once we got to where we are now...things are much better now. Will this work for you, I don't know. You have to at least try it to know. Let the Lord guide your path. Find a Bible believing church, one that actually has you open your Bible and not one where the Pastor or Preacher reads from it and not tells you where he or she is reading from.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I don't even know how to reply because it seems like everything going on is a train wreck. I definitely would not suggest divorce because I do not believe in it. One option is for the other to move out for awhile as a ultimatum for change. This way your still married, but not in a dangerous situation. If that doesn't work then get counseling. If all else fails then not sure what to do.

 

[Hidden101]

Speak to a church that you trust. They will give you better advice considering your circumstances.

 

[Messy]

I don't even know how to reply because it seems like everything going on is a train wreck. I definitely would not suggest divorce because I do not believe in it. One option is for the other to move out for awhile as a ultimatum for change. This way your still married, but not in a dangerous situation. If that doesn't work then get counseling. If all else fails then not sure what to do.

Move out doesn't work. Then one will likely find another. In Toronto they have good counselling. My marriage wasn't that bad but there was abuse from two sides and after we had counselling there it was heaven on earth for 5 years until all hell broke loose. Oh well. If both want to make it work go to Canada or Baton Rouge, church of Larry Stockstill or Ellel. It'll cost you a fortune though. That's why we divorced. We had no money left anymore to get counselling. If I had known it I would have gone to T.B. Joshua though. The most horrible monstrous abusive marriages get healed there if they both want to.

 

[98cwitr]

A couple of words of advice for a married n00b (almost 2 years in, together 6). My wife and I both have had this convo both before and after we got married and came to similar conclusions on how to handle things. Here's are starting steps:

1. Turn to God...put your focus and efforts into Him! Pray and let your husband see it! If he ridicules you for it, tell him you're working on your relationship with Christ. Ignore any further "noise."
2. Always treat your husband kindly...even when it's really really hard. If you cannot say anything nice, don't say it at all (my wife KILLS ME with this when I am mad! And it works!)
3. Demand respect. If he talks to you poorly, you need to express that you will not be talked to in such ways, and that you deserve respect and to be treated like a wife. Be prepared to make your demands known, and then walk away from an escalating argument.
4. Build team mentality. This is crucial. Develop a plan to help him (and yourself) start to see your relationship in a "team" sense. You each have roles in the team, fulfill them.
5. What I did not see in your post is you express whether or not you are still in love with him. Are you?
6. Do not slander your husband as you have here. If you must vent and point out all his faults and flaws, please do so with a Christian therapist or counselor privately.

 

[johnbastion]

http://www.bethinking.org/bible/bible-scandals/5-marital-abuse

*[[Mat 19:3-9/NASB]]* %v 3% Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?" %v 4% And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, %v 5% and said, `FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? %v 6% "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." %v 7% They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?" %v 8% He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. %v 9% "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

 

[Messy]

*[[Mat 19:3-9/NASB]]* %v 3% Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?" %v 4% And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, %v 5% and said, `FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? %v 6% "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." %v 7% They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?" %v 8% He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. %v 9% "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Yes that's true. But if a guy wants to really kill his wife and the elders force her to stay with him, sorry, but the guy has a demon and isn't even a christian. If you hate your brother you're in darkness. They may misuse those verses, but if someone is really an unrepentant killer like in that example she can leave him. And if the texts aren't convincing just use your brain. You don't have to die as a false martyr because someone lies that he is a christian.
One woman did and the police said it was her fault that he had abused the kids and she did nothing.

 

[johnbastion]

Yes that's true. But if a guy wants to really kill his wife and the elders force her to stay with him, sorry, but the guy has a demon and isn't even a christian. If you hate your brother you're in darkness. They may misuse those verses, but if someone is really an unrepentant killer like in that example she can leave him. And if the texts aren't convincing just use your brain. You don't have to die as a false martyr because someone lies that he is a christian.

You then stay apart for a time. And pray for your husband, which is a *life-long* covenant you made with your partner for life.
You pray and have faith in 1Pet.3.1

*[[1Pe 3:1-2/NASB]]* %v 1% In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, %v 2% as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.

It says, "won without a word".. The Christian life was never promised to be an easy one...but one where God is with us in every circumstance.

If the husband is physically abusive, then stay apart, and pray. God will change him.

If he is a mentally deranged person, then he was never fit for marriage in the first place.

 

[beaverpond]

I know of a couple that divorced because of infidelity on the part of the man and then he did because of drinking. She had met this wonderful guy, but would not move in with him and would not marry him until the Lord took the ex-husband from this world. About 6 months to a year after he was gone, she married the man she had been dating all this time.

 

[LinkH]

Observer,

It sounds like there is a very toxic dynamic to your marriage. A husband should not treat his wife the way you describe, and I think you know you've treated your husband in ways a wife should not treat her husband.

Your husband says he is a Christian. Does he go to church? I believe what you both need is to repent and you need are real work of the grace of God in both of your lives. The root cause for your marital problems is a spiritual one. Would your husband be interested in going to church? You both need to be ministered by someone who will share the Gospel with you, baptize you, disciple both of you, and you need the power of God to be at work in your life.

I've heard testimonies from people who had messed up marriages like you describe yours, even marriages that had experienced some domestic violence, where the couple repented and loved each other and served Christ. You've been given the advice from I Peter 3. That is good advice. It's what the Bible teaches. You need to put your faith in Christ, be baptized, and follow him as a disciple. Start serving the Lord, praying for your husband, and doing what the Bible teaches you to do as a wife. It's ironic that some wives in your situation, women who aren't Christians, but are married to men who claim to be Christians, end up being the spiritual ones in the marriage for a while when they finally turn to Christ, and then pray for their husbands to repent. So you may go through a time of prayer for him, or he may repent rather quickly through the witness and the testimony of the way you live your life.

 

[Observer]

.

 

[Observer]

Thank you all for your replies and advice. We have not been to church together since just before we got married and that was just to find a pastor to marry us. He would be open to it and was very involved in church and ministry before he moved here. He is starting to make some effort in the issues I spoke about before, which is good.