Waiting on God.

[Carl Emerson]

Back in the day, my university lecturer was Dr. Koyama from Japan - teaching phenomenology of religion - and he was a believer in Jesus.

This was unusual as Japan is one of the most unreached countries in the world.

So he had some insightful things to say.

I will never forget his comment on Western Christianity - a people without patience - expecting early responses from God in answer to prayer - when in God's time the answer often rightfully comes in years, not months or days.

The extreme version of this is seen at Bethel - folks are taught to demand that God acts now.

Even Jesus had to wait and see what the Father wanted to do...

Timing is everything - Make you requests known with thanks and fully yield the matter.

Leave it there - making things happen in place of God is spiritual manipulation.

Claiming that God must heal now is distorting the message of the Cross.

Discussion most welcome.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Andrew Murray has an EXCELLENT book on this very topic that I highly recommend.

This topic is something that for years God has dealt with me on, the necessity for patience and to wait for Him. My experience has shown that the more impatient I am for something, the longer I have to wait on it. It's not just about the answer to prayer, it's about the development of Christ in us and God I don't think will promote unhealthy spiritual expectations and/or habits in us.

I think perhaps another issue here is people are not taught properly about the gifts of the Spirit and about the Spirit in general. Bad teaching can be nailed down as the root cause of most of Christianity's woes actually. No better place to start at returning to truth than this one principle!

Wait on God

Abram had to wait to receive his promise. He got impatient and the results of his impatience are still being felt today in the Arab-Israeli conflict. God doesn't need our help to make His plan and purpose come to pass, we just need to get out of the way and cooperate with Him when it's appropriate to do so.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

 

[Carl Emerson]

I must say that this thread was partly started as a result of watching this video...

Mike winger seems pretty grounded to me, and presents the sad story of Bethel and the subtle slide into deception that comes from elevating the imagination.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I must say that this thread was partly started as a result of watching this video...

Mike winger seems pretty grounded to me, and presents the sad story of Bethel and the subtle slide into deception that comes from elevating the imagination.

I think Mike Winger is a Calvary Chapel guy, but that's fine, I enjoy his content and it doesn't bother me as a "Charismatic" that he calls out people who live in deception. Truth be told, we should all be willing to do so, even in our own congregations.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

View attachment 333999

Partly, but I think something else is God makes us wait to ensure our focus is really where it needs to be. It's not so much about the end, but about the journey, God wants us to want Him, not the things He can give us.

 

[ARBITER01]

Back in the day, my university lecturer was Dr. Koyama from Japan - teaching phenomenology of religion - and he was a believer in Jesus.

This was unusual as Japan is one of the most unreached countries in the world.

So he had some insightful things to say.

I will never forget his comment on Western Christianity - a people without patience - expecting early responses from God in answer to prayer - when in God's time the answer often rightfully comes in years, not months or days.

The extreme version of this is seen at Bethel - folks are taught to demand that God acts now.

Even Jesus had to wait and see what the Father wanted to do...

Timing is everything - Make you requests known with thanks and fully yield the matter.

Leave it there - making things happen in place of God is spiritual manipulation.

Claiming that God must heal now is distorting the message of the Cross.

Discussion most welcome.

Carl I think you are forgetting the spiritual battle that often times takes place with satan and his forces. This was prominently displayed in Daniel.

For me, I've had simple prayers answered, I've also had thoughts about things that needed fixed around the city and GOD did it when I didn't even ask Him, but most of all, I've had to provide some sort of work in prayer for a while after I spoke it into being.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Carl I think you are forgetting the spiritual battle that often times takes place with satan and his forces. This was prominently displayed in Daniel.

For me, I've had simple prayers answered, I've also had thoughts about things that needed fixed around the city and GOD did it when I didn't even ask Him, but most of all, I've had to provide some sort of work in prayer for a while after I spoke it into being.

What would make you think I have forgotten that ???????

 

[ARBITER01]

What would make you think I have forgotten that ???????

With statements like this,...

Timing is everything - Make you requests known with thanks and fully yield the matter.

Leave it there - making things happen in place of God is spiritual manipulation.

Most of the time prayer is work. Jesus prayed until He bleed, so I don't think that a "one and done" sort of prayer is really sufficient most of the time.

 

[Pioneer3mm]

Andrew Murray has an EXCELLENT book

'Waiting on God'
- One of my favorite Andrew Murray books..
---
Wait on the Lord
Listen to His voice
They that wait upon the Lord
Shall renew their strength..
---
From song lyrics:
'Wait On The Lord'
- Maranatha Music

 

[Carl Emerson]

I understand your point.

First off should we assume that the spiritual battle fought under the old covenant is the same as under the new - I think not.
A major difference is the authority given to the Body of Christ seriously exceeds that of the old covenant priesthood and the Gifts of the Spirit that assist this activity were not yet imparted.

Second the spiritual battle we engage in is from the standpoint of a victory already secured. For this reason I despair at the activities of some that portray spiritual warfare as some kind of contest.

Thirdly there is an important place for intercession which can require labouring in prayer, but this should not be confused with spiritual warfare.

Renounciation for example, is a declaration against a spiritual entity, this is not prayer which is made to the Father in Jesus Name.

Since He was seen to fall like lightening to the authority Jesus gave, a proclamation in Jesus name is often all it takes to disarm Satans activity. But surely many who engage in 'spiritual warfare' are merely what I call 'shadow boxing' having not learned to calmly proclaim in His Name with effect, in His authority.

 

[Carl Emerson]

We are diverting a little...

The point of this thread is to try and emphasise that we must not try and force an answer to prayer as if we somehow have the authority to do His Work - Jesus did not do that, He waited to see what the Father was doing before He acted.

Further, the right time for the answer is not always now as many declare.

At Bethel they declared a manifestation of the miraculous over a deceased little girl for many days to no effect. This malpractice hardly brings honour to the Name of Jesus.

 

[ARBITER01]

I understand your point.

First off should we assume that the spiritual battle fought under the old covenant is the same as under the new - I think not.
A major difference is the authority given to the Body of Christ seriously exceeds that of the old covenant priesthood and the Gifts of the Spirit that assist this activity were not yet imparted.

Second the spiritual battle we engage in is from the standpoint of a victory already secured. For this reason I despair at the activities of some that portray spiritual warfare as some kind of contest.

Thirdly there is an important place for intercession which can require labouring in prayer, but this should not be confused with spiritual warfare.

Renounciation for example, is a declaration against a spiritual entity, this is not prayer which is made to the Father in Jesus Name.

Since He was seen to fall like lightening to the authority Jesus gave, a proclamation in Jesus name is often all it takes to disarm Satans activity. But surely many who engage in 'spiritual warfare' are merely what I call 'shadow boxing' having not learned to calmly proclaim in His Name with effect, in His authority.

I understand you points here, but you're wrong. Satan still has his forces in the heavenlies to hinder and destroy, so this idea that prayer examples in the OT are somehow null and void to our walk as Christians nowadays is wishful thinking Carl.

I totally understand your point in this thread about people making declarations and expecting instant results, but people have been doing that for much longer than bethel has ever been around. They think they are acting on faith when all they have is belief.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I understand you points here, but you're wrong. Satan still has his forces in the heavenlies to hinder and destroy, so this idea that prayer examples in the OT are somehow null and void to our walk as Christians nowadays is wishful thinking Carl.

I totally understand your point in this thread about people making declarations and expecting instant results, but people have been doing that for much longer than bethel has ever been around. They think they are acting on faith when all they have is belief.

I agree with you - you have taken my words and made them into an argument.

Better to ask what I mean than assume and challenge. Doing so runs counter to the good intent of the thread.

 

[ARBITER01]

I agree with you - you have taken my words and made them into an argument.

Better to ask what I mean than assume and challenge. Doing so runs counter to the good intent of the thread.

Or,... how about this,.. explain yourself better so I and others don't feel the need to assume or ask questions. You posed things way to open ended in your first post.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Or,... how about this,.. explain yourself better so I and others don't feel the need to assume or ask questions. You posed things way to open ended in your first post.

Which part of the OP needs explanation ?

 

[ARBITER01]

Which part of the OP needs explanation ?

The part I already posted,...

Timing is everything - Make you requests known with thanks and fully yield the matter.

Leave it there - making things happen in place of God is spiritual manipulation.

That makes things seem like we just do one and done type of request, when that is not always the case in scripture. Prayer is work a lot of times.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The part I already posted,...

Timing is everything - Make you requests known with thanks and fully yield the matter.

Leave it there - making things happen in place of God is spiritual manipulation.

That makes things seem like we just do one and done type of request, when that is not always the case in scripture. Prayer is work a lot of times.

Yes... especially intercession.

But my question and focus was on the demand for healing now. Often not a request but a demand...

 

[ARBITER01]

Yes... especially intercession.

But my question and focus was on the demand for healing now. Often not a request but a demand...

And I agree with those points. People are listening to men and their ideas instead of The Holy Spirit. People want revivals instead of ministries.

 

[ari.sketch]

I've been hearing that phrase quite often lately, "waiting on God", I do believe in it, but man, it can be really, really hard.

What I found is that as I wait, or try to wait on God, it does stretch my faith little by little as I'm compelled to focus on His truth and not on how I feel. Trusting His timing and His method, and not my own.

But like I said, easier said than done, I just hope and pray that God will see me through. That this season shall, too, pass ... hopefully sooner rather than later.