vote yes on proposition 8

[jeffinj]

Californians, please vote yes on proposition 8.

 

[Staccato]

Why?

 

[wanderingone]

Californians, please vote yes on proposition 8.

Are you married?

 

[cantata]

Californians, please vote yes on proposition 8.

Or, don't.

I have gay friends in California. I would like their marriages to be protected, too.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Why you should vote YES to Prop 8
...the state amendment to ban gay marriage if you live in California.

1. Because America is a Christian nation. That's why Hindus and Muslims aren't allowed to marry.

2. Because marriage is an intrinsically religious legal ceremony. That's why atheists can't get married and why you can't have a non-religious ceremony.

3. Because gay marriage will undermine traditional marriages. That's why traditional marriages always work.

4. Because gay marriage is disgusting and we don't want to think about what they're doing in the marriage bed. That's why we never let ugly people or morbidly obese people or old people marry.

5. Because marriage is for procreation. That's why sterile couples and childfree couples aren't allowed to marry.

6. Because if we allow gay marriage, then schools will have to encourage it among our children. That's why everyone is pushing interracial marriage on kindergartners all the time.

7. Because if we allow gay marriage, churches will be forced to marry gay people. Like they're forced to marry anyone else who walks through their doors.

($10 says Jeffinj never comes back to defend his position)

 

[stan1980]

Why you should vote YES to Prop 8
...the state amendment to ban gay marriage if you live in California.

1. Because America is a Christian nation. That's why Hindus and Muslims aren't allowed to marry.

2. Because marriage is an intrinsically religious legal ceremony. That's why atheists can't get married and why you can't have a non-religious ceremony.

3. Because gay marriage will undermine traditional marriages. That's why traditional marriages always work.

4. Because gay marriage is disgusting and we don't want to think about what they're doing in the marriage bed. That's why we never let ugly people or morbidly obese people or old people marry.

5. Because marriage is for procreation. That's why sterile couples and childfree couples aren't allowed to marry.

6. Because if we allow gay marriage, then schools will have to encourage it among our children. That's why everyone is pushing interracial marriage on kindergartners all the time.

7. Because if we allow gay marriage, churches will be forced to marry gay people. Like they're forced to marry anyone else who walks through their doors.

($10 says Jeffinj never comes back to defend his position)

Very good use of sarcasm, I approve Just a shame that 7 excellently constructed points are going to be either ignored, receive poorly constructed counter arguments or go right over the heads of the people that are most in need of digesting this information.

 

[Holy Roller]

Very good use of sarcasm, I approve Just a shame that 7 excellently constructed points are going to be either ignored...

You don't know me very well, do you stan1980...

 

[stan1980]

You don't know me very well, do you stan1980...

From what I know of you I think....

Just a shame that 7 excellently constructed points are going to be either ignored, receive poorly constructed counter arguments or go right over the heads of the people that are most in need of digesting this information.

...that is the most likely scenario coming up from you.

 

[keith99]

If you truely object to the term marriage being used for anything other than a man and a woman then vote yes.

Otherwise consider this.

The Yes on 8 campaign has been spreading lies fast and thick. They claim that if the ammendment fails what schools teach will change and parents will not be able to object. California has a strong record of allowing objections and to let parents opt out for things like sex education if they find the content objectionable.

They are also spreading the lie that ministers will be forced to marry gays against their relegious principles. The California state constitution is actaully much stronger regarding seperation of Church and State than the U.S. Constitution, prohibiting even the apperance of one controling the other. Again California (and for that matter the whole U.S.) has a strong record of supporting the right of any church to give or withhold its blessing for any given marriage. Amny Churches require pre marriage counciling. Some just require the time being put in, other require the minister to make a judgement call. To the best of my knowledge the State has always upheld their right to do this.

So for those of you who abhor lies I'd urge you to consider how voting yes rewards those who have chosen to lie.

My condolences to those who feel strongly that marriage should be limited to one man and one woman and who have seen 'their side' lie and are upset being associated with those who lie.

 

[lawtonfogle]

You don't know me very well, do you stan1980...

Well, I'm waiting... And I think the OP may still ignore them. Though they may not as well, only time will tell.

 

[Holy Roller]

Why you should vote YES to Prop 8
...the state amendment to ban gay marriage if you live in California.

3. Because gay marriage will undermine traditional marriages. That's why traditional marriages always work.

4. Because gay marriage is disgusting and we don't want to think about what they're doing in the marriage bed. That's why we never let ugly people or morbidly obese people or old people marry.

5. Because marriage is for procreation. That's why sterile couples and childfree couples aren't allowed to marry.

6. Because if we allow gay marriage, then schools will have to encourage it among our children. That's why everyone is pushing interracial marriage on kindergartners all the time.

7. Because if we allow gay marriage, churches will be forced to marry gay people. Like they're forced to marry anyone else who walks through their doors.

($10 says Jeffinj never comes back to defend his position)

Item #3 says there's a deterioration in the integrity of male/female marriages if gays can wed. Prop 8 does not say this; it's not even implied. It's just something the gay community has been saying. We often read in the San Diego Union Tribune letters to the Editor that read, "I'm angry and I'm gay. Why can't people just let me marry? I mean, it's not like marriage is sacred or anything; heteroseuals can go down to Las Vegas for a legal shotgun wedding. If they can have their McWeddings this means marriage isn't anything special and because of that they should let us marry."

Item #4 just takes pot-shots at overweight people and elderly people by implying they're disgusting.
Most hetero's I know say lesbians are anything but disgusting...

Item #5 is the only relevant item needed under consideration, and represents the singular reason why we want Prop 8 to pass.
As stated many times before, marriage isn't to stifle gay rights, or to uphold some biblical scripture or some other amorphous, vague reason; marriage is designed by Mother Nature herself to be a union between a man and a woman. Why? Because only a man and a woman can procreate, that's why.
Thios demands a formal definition of procreation.
Procreation is a two-step process. Procreation means a series of acts brought on by a man and a woman whereby a child is born and reared by a male and a female. This necessarily means there will be more involved than a 30-minute sex-act. It means there will 9 months of labor. Insemination and labor is the first step.
It also means there will be a man and a woman to assume their proper gender roles for the overall health and well-being of the child, up to and including the child's 18th birthday. It means there will be nursing and breast-feeding after the birth. This is the second step of the two.
Thus, procreation is a process that legally takes around 18 years and 9 months to complete.

In the case of male/female infertility, one male and female set will take care of the sex-act and prenatal care; another male/female set will take care of the remaining 18 years of the procreation process by a legal procedure called adoption.

In the case of the elderly, the chance a child will be involved in a procreation role in that marriage is still very high, as the grandparents may very likely be called upon to aid in the overall procreation process if the legal parents of the child are not available to assume the role.

 

[Andreusz]

So why are men who have had vasectomies, and women who have had hysterectomies, allowed to get married?

 

[jcook922]

I don't see a legal definition saying marriage is for pro-creation only, that is an opinion only. I think it's about partnership, regardless of orientation.

 

[Holy Roller]

So why are men who have had vasectomies, and women who have had hysterectomies, allowed to get married?

Because there are children in need of adoption, and these couples play the second part of the procreation role.

 

[Andreusz]

Why can't gay couples do that too?

 

[wanderingone]

Because there are children in need of adoption, and these couples play the second part of the procreation role.

Generally a vasectomy indicates children are not desired. Certainly some people choose to be sterilized in favor of taking in children who need homes rather than having their own. But to assume that someone who has taken action to permanently avoid having children will be playing any role in "procreation" is a strange thing to do. Why give them the benefit of the doubt, and after all.. gay couples adopt children.. they do so even when not granted equal rights in marriage.

 

[Holy Roller]

Why can't gay couples do that too?

Because procreation is more than just a nine-month process.
Procreation is a two-step process, as I illustrated above:

1. The first step in procreation is the first 9 months.
2. Procreation would be meaningless unless the child is taken care of after the birth. For this reason, the second step of procreation involves the raising of the child up until his or her 18th year.

Both require the gender difference.

 

[wanderingone]

Because procreation is more than just a nine-month process.

Procreation is a two-step process, as I illustrated above:

1. The first step in procreation is the first 9 months.
2. Procreation would be meaningless unless the child is taken care of after the birth. For this reason, the second step of procreation involves the raising of the child up until his or her 18th year.

Both require the gender difference.

Why would raising a child require a gender difference?

 

[Holy Roller]

Generally a vasectomy indicates children are not desired. Certainly some people choose to be sterilized in favor of taking in children who need homes rather than having their own. But to assume that someone who has taken action to permanently avoid having children will be playing any role in "procreation" is a strange thing to do. Why give them the benefit of the doubt, and after all.. gay couples adopt children.. they do so even when not granted equal rights in marriage.

By virtue of their gender difference, male and females can get married.
If sterilization is part of the marriage, then the couple is marrying for all the wrong reasons (usually money or some other trite reason), but since the gender difference is still present; thus, the potential for procreation still manifests, the marriage should be allowed to proceed.

 

[Holy Roller]

Why would raising a child require a gender difference?

Because Mother Nature demands it of us.
Remember, when considering the topic such as marriage, we must consider only the rule, never the exception.
When we start asking things like, "Why can't I marry a hippopotamus? A hippo will keep my kid warm just like a wife can" we are introducing exceptions to the ideal rule, which detracts from good lawmaking.