Vocation shortage? There’s no such thing.

[Michie]

Let’s stop talking about a “shortage of vocations” in the Catholic Church. There’s no such thing.

A vocation is a calling from God. Unless we plan to second-guess the Almighty, we should be confident that God knows exactly how many priests and religious the Church needs. He is calling exactly the right number of young men and women to the priesthood and religious life.

Yet most Catholics agree that we are experiencing a shortage of priests, a shortage of male and female religious. Certainly there are fewer priests and religious, relative to the Catholic population, especially in the Western world. There are two possible explanations for this fact:

1) God in his infinite wisdom knows that the Church today does not need as many priests and religious, for reasons that we do not understand. If that is the case we should stop complaining and trust in Providence. But it seems unlikely. Doesn’t the Lord want his Church to grow? Doesn’t growth require more priests to administer the sacraments, more religious to instruct the children?

2) God is calling many more young men and women, but they are:

• not listening for the call, or
• not recognizing the call, or
• not responding generously to the call, or
• not being encouraged to respond, or
• all of the above.

We can address all of these problems:

• first by praying—not for vocations, but for appropriate responses to the vocational calls;
• then by teaching young people how to listen—a skill that is sometimes lost in this era of constant stimulation by cell phones and social media;
• next by introducing young people to intelligent, faithful priests and religious who can serve as role models as well as answering questions;
• finally by promoting the understanding that we all hear God’s calls on a regular basis—that we all have “vocations” to answer every day, not just in choosing a state in life but in fulfilling the demands of our particular circumstances every day.

When a priest or a nun is asked when he or she began thinking seriously about a vocation, the answer is often disarmingly simple: when someone asked. (“Have you thought about becoming a priest?” “Have you considered entering a convent?”) So if you wonder about a young person’s future, and sense an interest, ask the question!

And speaking of asking the question…

Continued below.

Vocation shortage? There’s no such thing.

We should be confident that God knows exactly how many priests and religious the Church needs.

www.catholicculture.org

 

[chevyontheriver]

Let’s stop talking about a “shortage of vocations” in the Catholic Church. There’s no such thing.

A vocation is a calling from God. Unless we plan to second-guess the Almighty, we should be confident that God knows exactly how many priests and religious the Church needs. He is calling exactly the right number of young men and women to the priesthood and religious life.

Yet most Catholics agree that we are experiencing a shortage of priests, a shortage of male and female religious. Certainly there are fewer priests and religious, relative to the Catholic population, especially in the Western world. There are two possible explanations for this fact:

1) God in his infinite wisdom knows that the Church today does not need as many priests and religious, for reasons that we do not understand. If that is the case we should stop complaining and trust in Providence. But it seems unlikely. Doesn’t the Lord want his Church to grow? Doesn’t growth require more priests to administer the sacraments, more religious to instruct the children?

2) God is calling many more young men and women, but they are:

• not listening for the call, or
• not recognizing the call, or
• not responding generously to the call, or
• not being encouraged to respond, or
• all of the above.

We can address all of these problems:

• first by praying—not for vocations, but for appropriate responses to the vocational calls;
• then by teaching young people how to listen—a skill that is sometimes lost in this era of constant stimulation by cell phones and social media;
• next by introducing young people to intelligent, faithful priests and religious who can serve as role models as well as answering questions;
• finally by promoting the understanding that we all hear God’s calls on a regular basis—that we all have “vocations” to answer every day, not just in choosing a state in life but in fulfilling the demands of our particular circumstances every day.

When a priest or a nun is asked when he or she began thinking seriously about a vocation, the answer is often disarmingly simple: when someone asked. (“Have you thought about becoming a priest?” “Have you considered entering a convent?”) So if you wonder about a young person’s future, and sense an interest, ask the question!

And speaking of asking the question…

Continued below.

Vocation shortage? There’s no such thing.

We should be confident that God knows exactly how many priests and religious the Church needs.

www.catholicculture.org

Mostly, IMHO, not being taught to hear the call, not being encouraged once they have heard the call, and some are actively turned away from their calling by rigid woke vocations directors with a bias against more tradition minded young men. I have sadly seen all three in my years.

 

[Bob Crowley]

There's a difference between what God wants and what God gets. He has to make allowances for human decision making.

I'm going to throw a spanner in the works here.

I'll refer to my old pastor again (to bore everyone). He was conservative to his bootlaces, and I'd be surprised if he ever voted for the Australian Labor Party in his life eg. a Republican voting for the Democrats. He told me once that he and another pastor wrote the social services policy document for the National Party (conservatives), saying it was a document that stood for years. No doubt its been superseded now, but that is what he said.

It surprised me then when he said "I think Marxism was God's idea, given through a Jew."

He quoted "From every man according to ability - to every man according to need." He went on "It's got an almost Biblical ring to it."

Then he said "But the devil got hold of it. You'd never get the churches to agree to it now".

And he was conservative. When it's all boiled down Marxism was an attempt for an egalitarian distribution of wealth by the state.

But it became a hotbed of cruel and violent revolution. The devil got hold of it. There is one particular photo of Stalin and Lenin in which (in my imaginative opinion) I can almost see the devil loooking out of their eyes.

At the time of the Russian Revolution there were about 120 socialist parties in Russian. But the violent revolutionaries - the Bolsheviks - were the ones who took power. The rest is history.

Similarly with Luther - the pastor thought Luther was expected to be prepared to die for his faith, and God would have worked reform of the church through his sacrifice, just as He started the Church through Christ's sacrifice. But he refused and took refuge with two mercenary German princes. From then on the Reformation spread violence all over Western Europe with Christian killing Christian in the name of Chirst, culminating in the thirty years war.

According to William Shirer author of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", in the century after Luther the population of Germany declined from 16 million to about 6 million due to (religious) war and its associated depredations. Luther also set the scene for the Nazi extermination of the Jews. The Nazis often quoted Luther to justify their anti-semetic policy.

The Nazis Exploited Martin Luther’s Legacy. This Berlin Exhibit Highlights How.

Martin Luther is such a towering figure in German history that it’s no surprise Adolf Hitler’s Third Reich exploited his name whenever it could.

sojo.net

The church is still divided into competing sects today.

The devil got hold of it first, although one thing that did come out of it was democracy. Mind you democracy has lead to a weakened church in some ways.

What God wants and what God gets are two different things.

There is a spiritual war on and He often loses.

We are inclined to do what we want and what the devil wants. What God wants often comes last.

 

[RileyG]

Mostly, IMHO, not being taught to hear the call, not being encouraged once they have heard the call, and some are actively turned away from their calling by rigid woke vocations directors with a bias against more tradition minded young men. I have sadly seen all three in my years.

Agreed.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Mostly, IMHO, not being taught to hear the call, not being encouraged once they have heard the call, and some are actively turned away from their calling by rigid woke vocations directors with a bias against more tradition minded young men. I have sadly seen all three in my years.

My experience is that the vocation will be tested, not accepted on face value. If a person has a real calling, they will come back two or three times to enter seminary.

If they are discouraged by a liberal priest at a first meeting and then denies his calling, was the calling real or presumptuous ?

I agree that liberalism is a discouragement but should not be a blockade

 

[chevyontheriver]

My experience is that the vocation will be tested, not accepted on face value. If a person has a real calling, they will come back two or three times to enter seminary.

If they are discouraged by a liberal priest at a first meeting and then denies his calling, was the calling real or presumptuous ?

I agree that liberalism is a discouragement but should not be a blockade

Do you have a real calling if you think you do but your bishop doesn’t think so? I would typically say ‘no’. But then many good men HAVE been turned away. I do think God calls an adequate number. But many dioceses do not have an adequate number.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Do you have a real calling if you think you do but your bishop doesn’t think so? I would typically say ‘no’. But then many good men HAVE been turned away. I do think God calls an adequate number. But many dioceses do not have an adequate number.

The Bishop is a man, a man of God, but still a man. His initial refusal could be the test of the candidate. How does he handle rejection ?
Would he be open to ways to discern a calling?

Is there a way to convince his Bishop?

A candidate presenting himself to his bishop and willing to display the virtues of poverty, chastity, and obedience may be turned away initially, but humility can convince even the hardest bishop

If however a person comes in and claims to love the Catholic Church, yet shows signs of wanting to solve all the problems, I could see a Bishop rejecting him

I highly recommend that you read the biography of Paul V Mankowski SJ, it’s available on Amazon and is entitled Jesuit at Large. I believe that you would find it refreshing and perhaps inspiring

 

[chevyontheriver]

The Bishop is a man, a man of God, but still a man. His initial refusal could be the test of the candidate. How does he handle rejection ?
Would he be open to ways to discern a calling?

Testing is one thing. Maybe a good thing. But then there are bishops who perhaps were not tested enough in seminary and should never have been priests let alone bishops. Remember that cardinal McCarrick ‘tested’ his seminarians.

Is there a way to convince his Bishop?

A candidate presenting himself to his bishop and willing to display the virtues of poverty, chastity, and obedience may be turned away initially, but humility can convince even the hardest bishop

Maybe not. There are some ‘hard’ bishops. See McCarrick above. He isn’t the only one.

If however a person comes in and claims to love the Catholic Church, yet shows signs of wanting to solve all the problems, I could see a Bishop rejecting him

There are plenty of reasons for a bishop to reject a candidate, and many of them very good reasons. Just some bad reasons creep in there too.

I highly recommend that you read the biography of Paul V Mankowski SJ, it’s available on Amazon and is entitled Jesuit at Large. I believe that you would find it refreshing and perhaps inspiring

Ah, yes, Diogenes!

 

[fide]

Let’s stop talking about a “shortage of vocations” in the Catholic Church. There’s no such thing.

A vocation is a calling from God. Unless we plan to second-guess the Almighty, we should be confident that God knows exactly how many priests and religious the Church needs. He is calling exactly the right number of young men and women to the priesthood and religious life.

Yet most Catholics agree that we are experiencing a shortage of priests, a shortage of male and female religious. Certainly there are fewer priests and religious, relative to the Catholic population, especially in the Western world. There are two possible explanations for this fact:

1) God in his infinite wisdom knows that the Church today does not need as many priests and religious, for reasons that we do not understand. If that is the case we should stop complaining and trust in Providence. But it seems unlikely. Doesn’t the Lord want his Church to grow? Doesn’t growth require more priests to administer the sacraments, more religious to instruct the children?

2) God is calling many more young men and women, but they are:

• not listening for the call, or
• not recognizing the call, or
• not responding generously to the call, or
• not being encouraged to respond, or
• all of the above.

We can address all of these problems:

• first by praying—not for vocations, but for appropriate responses to the vocational calls;
• then by teaching young people how to listen—a skill that is sometimes lost in this era of constant stimulation by cell phones and social media;
• next by introducing young people to intelligent, faithful priests and religious who can serve as role models as well as answering questions;
• finally by promoting the understanding that we all hear God’s calls on a regular basis—that we all have “vocations” to answer every day, not just in choosing a state in life but in fulfilling the demands of our particular circumstances every day.

When a priest or a nun is asked when he or she began thinking seriously about a vocation, the answer is often disarmingly simple: when someone asked. (“Have you thought about becoming a priest?” “Have you considered entering a convent?”) So if you wonder about a young person’s future, and sense an interest, ask the question!

And speaking of asking the question…

Continued below.

Vocation shortage? There’s no such thing.

We should be confident that God knows exactly how many priests and religious the Church needs.

www.catholicculture.org

Is this parable not true?

Jhn 10:1 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber;
Jhn 10:2 but he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Jhn 10:3 To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
Jhn 10:4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
Jhn 10:5 A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."
Jhn 10:6 This figure Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.
Jhn 10:7 So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
Jhn 10:8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers; but the sheep did not heed them.
Jhn 10:9 I am the door; if any one enters by me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
Jhn 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Jhn 10:12 He who is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.
Jhn 10:13 He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep.

A dear and holy priest now passed away once told me, when I mentioned considering priesthood because the Church needed more priests, he responded, "We don't need more priests. We have too many priests." I later learned what he meant was, "We need holy priests."

Another passage cames to mind,

Mat 9:37 Then he said to his disciples, "The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few;
Mat 9:38 pray therefore the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest."

Note He did not say, pray that the Lord send out more laborers..He does send whom He wills. The enemy of God is also interested in getting men into the priesthood for his own purposes, and it ought to be obvious that he succeeds.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Note He did not say, pray that the Lord send out more laborers..He does send whom He wills. The enemy of God is also interested in getting men into the priesthood for his own purposes, and it ought to be obvious that he succeeds.

I think some called men have been prevented from becoming priests and some uncalled men have been ordained. The enemy of God works hard that bad men become priests and good men do not.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

I think some called men have been prevented from becoming priests and some uncalled men have been ordained. The enemy of God works hard that bad men become priests and good men do not.

That is the parable of the wheat and the tares, but we have the promise that the gates of hell will not prevail, if we don’t give up
He who endures to the end will be saved.

As the words of Peter our first Pope, where then shall we go Lord, you alone have the words of eternal life.

In spiritual warfare, all you have is your will. God gave jt to you for free, and you can use it how you wish. You are not guaranteed your intellect, your health, your feelings, your friends, your home, only your will. Satan will do everything to break it, don’t let him

 

[fide]

That is the parable of the wheat and the tares, but we have the promise that the gates of hell will not prevail, if we don’t give up
He who endures to the end will be saved.

As the words of Peter our first Pope, where then shall we go Lord, you alone have the words of eternal life.

In spiritual warfare, all you have is your will. God gave jt to you for free, and you can use it how you wish. You are not guaranteed your intellect, your health, your feelings, your friends, your home, only your will. Satan will do everything to break it, don’t let him

You don't count all the supernatural gifts infused with sanctifying grace given in Baptism?

 

[Lady Bug]

Sometimes it does appear that there is a shortage of priests in my Diocese but it doesn't explain why one parish in my Diocese may have three priests and yet the Diocesan Cathedral only has one!

 

[RileyG]

Sometimes it does appear that there is a shortage of priests in my Diocese but it doesn't explain why one parish in my Diocese may have three priests and yet the Diocesan Cathedral only has one!

It's probably because they are focusing on how many parishioners there are. Many cities have multiple priests, and many rural church parishes have been forced to close or merge, sadly.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

You don't count all the supernatural gifts infused with sanctifying grace given in Baptism?

Yes we have supernatural gifts, but Satan can play us like a cat. His first temptation is curiosity, he can manipulate emotions to make sin seem good and God burdensome or unfair, and he can get you to question those around us and make us doubt.

Those that are in sanctifying grace can resist the attacks, so it is important to have a disciplined prayer life, and practice frequent reception of the sacraments. The baptized can be wooed into a state of spiritual sloth if they neglect these things.

Saints have spoken of the dark night of the soul where no spiritual consolations are to be had. Theirs prayers are empty and seem ineffective. Their friendships are boring and they have lost interest. They are made to feel isolated and alone. God is allowing them to be tested. Do they love Him or will they give up and turn back? Peter had the will to continue. He had denied our Lord and felt the shame and had nothing left in his flesh to offer God. Jessis asked him, Simon son of Jonah lovest thou me?
The Lord asked three times and Peter relied yes
We don’t know exactly what was going through his mind. The scripture gives a clue that he was troubled at the Lord asking three times. Did he have self doubt? Did he doubt that the Lord loved him any longer? He had nothing left, and he still said yes.
The other clue that Peter had nothing but his will was in John 6 after the bread of life discourse. Peter, intellect was like the other’s who could not comprehend the teaching. Jesus asked the twelve, will you leave me also? Peter did not go on a theological exegesis of the teaching and say, Lord we know what you mean, those that left are just idiots. No, he felt the same doubt and said, Lord, where else would we go? You alone have the words of eternal life?

The road to life is narrow and the gate is straight. It is not a road which we choose if our hearts are toward our flesh and its comfort. When we have mortified the deeds of our flesh, denied ourselves and taken up our cross, we chose it only with our free will, and we can say with Job and all the martyrs, though He slay me, still I will serve Him. As with Peter we say, what else can I do Lord, you alone are the giver of life?

 

[fide]

Yes we have supernatural gifts, but Satan can play us like a cat. His first temptation is curiosity, he can manipulate emotions to make sin seem good and God burdensome or unfair, and he can get you to question those around us and make us doubt.

Those that are in sanctifying grace can resist the attacks, so it is important to have a disciplined prayer life, and practice frequent reception of the sacraments. The baptized can be wooed into a state of spiritual sloth if they neglect these things.

Saints have spoken of the dark night of the soul where no spiritual consolations are to be had. Theirs prayers are empty and seem ineffective. Their friendships are boring and they have lost interest. They are made to feel isolated and alone. God is allowing them to be tested. Do they love Him or will they give up and turn back? Peter had the will to continue. He had denied our Lord and felt the shame and had nothing left in his flesh to offer God. Jessis asked him, Simon son of Jonah lovest thou me?
The Lord asked three times and Peter relied yes
We don’t know exactly what was going through his mind. The scripture gives a clue that he was troubled at the Lord asking three times. Did he have self doubt? Did he doubt that the Lord loved him any longer? He had nothing left, and he still said yes.
The other clue that Peter had nothing but his will was in John 6 after the bread of life discourse. Peter, intellect was like the other’s who could not comprehend the teaching. Jesus asked the twelve, will you leave me also? Peter did not go on a theological exegesis of the teaching and say, Lord we know what you mean, those that left are just idiots. No, he felt the same doubt and said, Lord, where else would we go? You alone have the words of eternal life?

The road to life is narrow and the gate is straight. It is not a road which we choose if our hearts are toward our flesh and its comfort. When we have mortified the deeds of our flesh, denied ourselves and taken up our cross, we chose it only with our free will, and we can say with Job and all the martyrs, though He slay me, still I will serve Him. As with Peter we say, what else can I do Lord, you alone are the giver of life?

I find this helpful in understanding the Night of the Senses:

St. John of the Cross describes three crucial signs in the person of the arrival of the dark night of the senses.[52] They are summarized below, following a similar description given by Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange.[53]

1) The Psychological Experience: One finds no consolation in the things of God, nor in created things.
-- The Theological Explanation: Activity of the gift of knowledge, showing the emptiness of created things and the gravity of sin.
2) The Psychological Experience: One keenly desires to serve God, with a thirst for justice and fear of sin. One finds strength in temptation.
-- The Theological Explanation: Activity of the gift of fortitude, with the gift of fear.
3) The Psychological Experience: There is great difficulty in discursive meditation, with instead a tendency to the simple affective gaze toward God.
-- The Theological Explanation: Activity of the gift of understanding; the beginning of infused contemplation.

The presence of all three signs, indicating the emergence of these holy gifts of the Spirit, all present together in a person, is confirmation of God’s work and this dark night having begun. These signs must be present, this night must come, before God’s gift of Himself in infused contemplation, and advanced stages of prayer.
With a keen desire to serve God, the soul fears that it does not, and is instead sharply aware of its sins and weaknesses. This fear is the fear of a son who loves his father, not the servile fear of a slave fearing punishment. The soul truly wants to serve God because of the worthiness of God, yet despairs because of its own unworthiness. God does not grant the soul the pleasant feelings of before, nor give the material blessings and protections. God is becoming more present to the soul than ever, but the soul, looking for God in the ways of the past, is not able to perceive Him. God is awaiting now more interiorly, so to speak, and the soul must find Him anew in this more interior place.
Hence the soul experiences darkness, aloneness, and suffering, even though God is more authentically and really active and present than ever before. There is great need then for perseverance, enduring in faith in Him beyond anything that can be felt, seen, or understood. Faithful endurance is the active response of the soul; the person must actively choose to passively receive the work that only God can accomplish.

the above from:

R. Thomas Richard, PhD. The Ordinary Path to Holiness (Third Edition) (pp. 144-145). Kindle Edition.
[51]The Dark Night, Book I, chapter 9 [St. John of the Cross, The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross. trans. Kieran Kavanaugh O.C.D. and Otilio Rodriguez, O.C.D. (ICS Publications Washington, DC 1973), 313-16].
[53] R. Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P., Three Ages of the Interior Life, Tan Books 1989, vol. 2, p. 51.