Violent Rhetoric in Politics

Im_A said:

Intent is the only thing different in your example.
I would also think it would depend on if it was a battle fight, or something comparable to what happened this weekend...a man approaches people and starts opening fire.

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What "intent" can be argued when you send in a military? Short notice flower arrangements?

broken_one said:

Troll harder, "old" man.

And I'd also like to invite you to turn on any news channel and find someone who is NOT bringing up Sarah Palin in this conversation.

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And blaming this on Sarah Palin isn't trolling? Come on!
I've seen the news, and they are all saying we need to be civil. Civility is out the window in this thread. It starts out intending anger the Right.

RealDealNeverstop said:

What "intent" can be argued when you send in a military? Short notice flower arrangements?

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A deranged man is not the same thing as a soldier. Yes there are soldiers who end up having psychological problems but you can't compare the entire armed forces to that 22 year old man and think you are making a valid point. The intent of a deranged man is thus different than that of a soldier.

You are arguing apples and cashews. I'm not trying to be all pro-military here and I have my pro sides and my anti sides but I do think it is unfair to compare the incidents of this passed weekend, to men and women serving in the armed forces. No matter what their intent is be it to serve their citizens and their nation, or to get a better job and get out of a rut in life, that is nothing compared to a deranged man opening fire while standing at a public event while having it planned out to try to kill one specific congresswoman.

broken_one said:

Normally it would seem so, but again....if mainstream news channels are bringing her into this, there's probably a good reason why they're doing so. That is, unless they're "trolling" too.

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Well I suppose if everybody is doing it, that it must be OK.

P.S. You are managing to quote me while I'm editing what I wrote. Sorry about that. I should just write a complete thought and then press "Submit Reply"

Boondock_Saint said:

And blaming this on Sarah Palin isn't trolling? Come on!
I've seen the news, and they are all saying we need to be civil. Civility is out the window in this thread. It starts out intending anger the Right.

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Well to be fair...the Tea Party has been the loudest. They have been exceptionally loud with their violent metaphors.

If they don't want to be made an example of, then don't give people the reason to. I would argue that doesn't mean Tea Party people are to blame, but hey...comes with the bag if they want to be loud mouths and exhibit their right to assemble and protest and say the things they do...even if it is 'peaceful' and 'green' since they picked up their trash.

broken_one said:

Okay, I think we all know what I'm talking about. A man entered a Safeway yesterday and shot a congresswoman point-blank in the head, killed 6 people including a federal judge and a 9-year-old girl, and then injured about a dozen more. The shooter, a 22-year-old white male, was said to be have been inspired and influenced by the vitriol coming from the recent political climate. Sarah Palin's reference on her website to the congresswoman as a "target" with crosshairs on her district has drawn ire in particular, as well as the Tea Party carrying guns to political rallies (Congresswoman Giffords' in particular) during the last election. Personally I think it was just some crazy who, under the "approved" climate of violence and anger, was allowed to further his fantasy to the point of tragedy.

When are we going to stop making these metaphors and symbolic actions so these things do not happen in the future??

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If only people like you were so easily manipulated.


Please, Do Not Jump. This is only a metaphor for empty headed
political hand wringing. This is not an invitation to take a flying leap.

The Tea Party has been loud, and the rhetoric has been unconscionable from both sides. But, having read a good bit of this story, that isn't why the deranged man shot the congresswoman. He did it for reasons that appear to only make sense to him, and he would have done this regardless of political posturing. I have a suspicion from what I read that he's just plain anti-government with quite a bit of looney thrown in for good measure.

mjmcmillan said:

The Tea Party has been loud, and the rhetoric has been unconscionable from both sides. But, having read a good bit of this story, that isn't why the deranged man shot the congresswoman. He did it for reasons that appear to only make sense to him, and he would have done this regardless of political posturing. I have a suspicion from what I read that he's just plain anti-government with quite a bit of looney thrown in for good measure.

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Agreed.

Just no one can not expect for fingers to not be pointing at the loudest mouths with the unconscionable rhetoric coming.

I just hope both sides learn to tone it down is all I really hope for because this situation is a situation with no hope in my opinion.

Im_A said:

Well to be fair...the Tea Party has been the loudest. They have been exceptionally loud with their violent metaphors.

If they don't want to be made an example of, then don't give people the reason to. I would argue that doesn't mean Tea Party people are to blame, but hey...comes with the bag if they want to be loud mouths and exhibit their right to assemble and protest and say the things they do...even if it is 'peaceful' and 'green' since they picked up their trash.

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Well that's true. They are pretty loud. But I don't think they are to blame for violence. They just haven't figured out how to protest without angering people. They need to put the pots on simmer, keep cooking, an quit burning the meat. I (just as you I'm sure) do not like listening to people nag. But a nag eventually will get their way. I feel you are right about the Tea Party as they are.

The Tea Party hasn't done anything but raise what they feel is should concern people. I see that people are starting understand what the Tea Party is saying. But I feel few would like to stand on stage with a bunch of nags.

I am a Republican.

Have any of you seen his YouTube videos? Just search for "Classitup10" on YouTube. I don't know if one can even say he had a reason for doing what he did, in that reason is something possessed only by the sane. This guy is crazy. I mean the sort of crazy that is capable of earnestly believing that 2 + 2 = a potato.

MacFall said:

Have any of you seen his YouTube videos? Just search for "Classitup10" on YouTube. I don't know if one can even say he had a reason for doing what he did, in that reason is something possessed only by the sane. This guy is crazy. I mean the sort of crazy that is capable of earnestly believing that 2 + 2 = a potato.

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If that is how information is processed in his brain, he had to be C-C-Crazy.

Boondock_Saint said:

Well that's true. They are pretty loud. But I don't think they are not to blame for violence. They just haven't figured out how to protest without angering people. They need to put the pots on simmer, keep cooking, an quit burning the meat. I (just as you I'm sure) do not like listening to people nag. But a nag eventually will get there way. But you are right about the Tea Party as they are.

The Tea Party hasn't done anything but raise what they feel is should concern people. I see that people are starting understand what the Tea Party is saying. But I feel few would like to stand on stage with a bunch of nags.

I am a Republican.

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I do agree that they have brought up their concerns that are important to them. There's no arguing that note there. Just as any other leftist group doing the same.

Its just people tend to do it in violent metaphors because most people are too chicken to do what the many things I have heard from fellow Republicans/Tea Party or they think that loud, 'excessive' means somehow does the trick. Bringing up about revolting against the government, how people deserve to die(now I'm not going to say that is strictly Tea party mentality but I have heard individuals say that stuff before and they are Republicans, Tea Party enthusiasts and also living in a state where a man murdered a lawyer to obtain his weapon to overthrow the government kind of brings some thoughts with this but doesn't mean it has to bring up thoughts about the topic but it does for me) quoting quotes of our nation's fathers with what the people should do when the government becomes tyrannical as if the times even relate to when our nation was even formed(its just a scapegoat in my opinion to become more vitriolic with their dissent from federal government but I suppose that is for a different thread)...point being...there are better ways to be concerned about rising deficits, better ways to be concerned about a health care bill, better ways to be concerned about jobs being lost, better ways to be concerned if Obama's policies are doing good, or are that we just that bad off to where things are going to be super slow.

I mean isn't the concern to influence madmen to commit autrocities worth a concern to simply, watch the words that one uses as they speak on tv, the radio, the web? Politics is always known to cause a disturbance. People point fingers and yell at each other but don't put a bullet in someone's head. Heck, just look at this forum and how we all sometimes go at it, but we would never kill each other. So wouldn't it be more wise for concerns/the freedom of speech, to be said more 'civil' 'JUST IN CASE' because I don't know about anyone else but one time of this happening is way too much. Its not giving in to the deranged its protecting the innocent in a civilian way by not adding more and more negativity and vitriolic attitudes into our 'social conscience/mind' that we are all a part of since we are all Americans.

I would argue the same with any left group since I have come to FINALLY realize that I am more on the left side(dare I say more left than the Democratic party?) to say the least politically even though I had my fling with the right and Tea party stuff like a guy finds a one night stand (bad analogy I know but I've got a million of them). So I am not trying to play partisan with this topic or be so anti-Tea party that I wrongfully blame people I STRONGLY disagree with for the horrible act that happened this past weekend. I don't have it in me to blame people for what happened this weekend without proof...I just think the times are creating a social environment where people may show their deranged, psychotic senses easier...at least in my time of living and knowledge...like mail bombs at federal buildings and now another attempt at a life of another politician?

I'm rambling and going on and on. I have been watching the news for about 3 days straight about this so of course I'm going to go on and on. You all have fun with this...this topic is really wearing me out because I can't stand this type of stuff and I become like an OCD freak wanting to dwell and think and think on it. Need a break from it to say the least.

Boondock_Saint said:

I like how you bring up Sarah Palin right away. But I suppose you look for any chance you can to Republican Bash. The Supreme Court ruled. Get over it.

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Apparently Palin was so confident in her decisions that she never had the rifle crosshairs pics removed from the map on her website. She must have left them on there because they have absolutley no connection to the Giffords shooting.

Boondock_Saint said:

Well that's true. They are pretty loud. But I don't think they are to blame for violence. They just haven't figured out how to protest without angering people. They need to put the pots on simmer, keep cooking, an quit burning the meat. I (just as you I'm sure) do not like listening to people nag. But a nag eventually will get their way. I feel you are right about the Tea Party as they are.

The Tea Party hasn't done anything but raise what they feel is should concern people. I see that people are starting understand what the Tea Party is saying. But I feel few would like to stand on stage with a bunch of nags.

I am a Republican.

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The TP is corporate partisan funded astroturf playing benched players. Many of the same people active in the TP are the same people who fiercely defended the Liberal policy of Nation Building in Iraq and Afghanistan, support international State funded kidnapping, holding people indefinitely in prison without a trial, warrantless wiretapping on Americans, and the creation of ginormous new government agencies such as the TSA and DHS.

Suddenly they are focused on a smaller government? Please.

The financiers of the TP knew it could not mount a successful propaganda attack on Obushama without first creating a major buffer to deflect identifying these new TP'ers as Bush supporters. The reason is simple: Obushama has continued the same foreign policies the Bush admin put in place. It's kind of hard to bash Obushama when he's simply giving a 3rd term to the Bush Admin.

Bush supporters are quiet on Obushama on foreign policy and are not praising him even though things are much the same. Their hypocrisy is not isolated.

Obushama supporters are not nearly as critical of the dumb wars as when bush was in office. When Obushama ordered thousands of more troops overseas when he first entered office the majority of his supporters were silent but if Bush had done it they would have screamed until they choked on one of Jupiter's rings.

MacFall said:

Have any of you seen his YouTube videos? Just search for "Classitup10" on YouTube. I don't know if one can even say he had a reason for doing what he did, in that reason is something possessed only by the sane. This guy is crazy. I mean the sort of crazy that is capable of earnestly believing that 2 + 2 = a potato.

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I am going to say that this wasn't about politics per se...yes, he tried to assassinate a politician, but that was just a pretext for carrying out some warped ideology that Jared Loughner had because he was mentally ill. Congressional offices attract crazy people like bees to honey. I know because I worked in a local Congressional office for a few months as an intern, and I can tell you this: mentally ill people are abundant and security is lax. For example, I would deal with the same group of opinionated, mentally ill people on a regular basis. Everyone in the office knew these people were crazy, they had warnings about harassing the office from the Capitol Police, and once we even received a death threat...but we can't lock people up for calling and speaking crazy, and in America, people have the right to an opinion.

What disturbs me most about this crime is that there were so many signs, and none of Loughner's friends or family did anything! This crime was preventable. This was not a political issue, but an issue of mental health. If people killed over politics, a lot more people would be dead. Yes, in this case, politics seems to be the feeder and pretext for a violent crime of a mentally ill young man. But if it wasn't politics, it would be something else like fashion, art, or even the weather.

MacFall said:

Have any of you seen his YouTube videos? Just search for "Classitup10" on YouTube. I don't know if one can even say he had a reason for doing what he did, in that reason is something possessed only by the sane. This guy is crazy. I mean the sort of crazy that is capable of earnestly believing that 2 + 2 = a potato.

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Clearly, he is a recently discovered genius:

YouTube - How To: Your New Currency!

I want the new coin!

Sad...I know...but that video had me laughing.

The actions of a mentally ill man don't represent the attitudes of sane people with whom he supposedly shares a few political/religious/whatever views. I'm all for politicians scaling down the violent rhetoric, but it's not to blame for an atrocity like this.

Neve said:

Congressional offices attract crazy people like bees to honey.

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...I'm just going to quote this out of context, because I like it that way.