Views on tongues?

[Shizzle]

What are yalls view on the "pentacostals" practice of speaking in tongues? Not talking about the gift of tongues, but "speaking in new tongues".

1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongues does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

1 Corinthians 14:16-17 16 If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.

1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But while I am inside the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct other people than ten thousand words in a tongue.

1 Corinthians 14:23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

Does this not strongly support speaking in new tongues is meant for christians today? If speaking in tongues is always an understandable language, why would unbelievers say that they are out of their mind? No the bible strongly supports that theirs a gift of tongues, and the pentacostal's babble tongues.

 

[Sophia7]

I don't believe that the biblical manifestation of tongues is always an understandable human language. The verses that you quoted show that it can be a spiritual language between a person and God, not intended to edify anyone else. This kind of speaking in the church is governed by the instructions given later in 1 Cor. 14:

1CO 14:26 What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
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No, there would be no reason for unbelievers to think that Christians were out of their minds if all they were doing was speaking in intelligible languages. However, it should not be just uncontrolled babbling, as I've seen in some Pentecostal churches. The Bible tells us that there must be an interpreter, or the person should keep quiet in church.

 

[Shizzle]

The Bible tells us that there must be an interpreter, or the person should keep quiet in church.

But thats only talking about while inside the church, and it continues "and speak to himself and god", so we see quiet refers to volume. Paul says pray without ceasing, dont we run out of words to pray?

1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But while I am inside the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct other people than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Paul is telling the people of corinthians not to focus the meeting on tongues, especially without people interpreting, while in church. But christians today give witness that God has not changed. Yes he has his times and seasons but he would work greatly and miraculously through each and every one if we would only seek him.

Romans 15:4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

The important facets of seeking God i have learned are to pray daily for a spirit of wisdom and discerning, and to speak in tongues many hours a day.

I heard a voice recently say "Its all about jesus", we need to let go of all our guilt and accept the forgiveness God wills for us, its not an easy thing to do, so much baggage of the flesh on our minds. We are now co-heirs with christ to the kingdom of heaven, the bible says, so we must endure to find the hope of God's calling. Faith is the substance of what is not seen the bible says, we need to have faith God will work through us powerfully and seek his will, before we see that he will.

Speaking from the spirit is part of God's will and how to seek him, all the charismatic/pentacostals give witness to that, tongues are not uncontrolled but a language of the spirit.

"he utters mysteries with his spirit."

1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Sophia7]

Well, I agree that those instructions are for speaking in church. Quiet means quiet, though; the Greek word actually seems to indicate silence. A person can speak to God in his mind if he can't do it out loud because there's no interpreter.

What you do outside of church is between you and God. Paul says, "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you" (vs. 18). So I don't see anything wrong with speaking in tongues privately. However, it is uncontrolled in the church if it's not done in accordance with the biblical instructions.

 

[sentipente]

I am having difficulty seeing how Paul's pastoral letter to the church in Corinth "strongly support speaking in new tongues is meant for christians today."

 

[Sophia7]

I am having difficulty seeing how Paul's pastoral letter to the church in Corinth "strongly support speaking in new tongues is meant for christians today."

I agree with you there. It doesn't say that. However, I personally don't see anything wrong with it if Christians do speak in tongues today, as long as they follow the biblical guidelines.

 

[StormyOne]

I have no problems when folks want to speak in tongues.... just don't disrupt the service or make sure someone is interpreting.... otherwise it is useless babble....

 

[Sophia7]

I have no problems when folks want to speak in tongues.... just don't disrupt the service or make sure someone is interpreting.... otherwise it is useless babble....

I agree.

 

[Shizzle]

I am having difficulty seeing how Paul's pastoral letter to the church in Corinth "strongly support speaking in new tongues is meant for christians today."

1 Corinthians 14:23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
Look at all the possible meanings of speaking in tongues here:
A- A gift where everyone can understand you.
B- Babble
C- A language foreign to the hearer.
D- The pentacostal's "prayer language"

A- If everyone could understand you, like in acts where all peoples of different languages understood the apostles in their own language, then they would not say you are out of your mind, no instead they would understand you. So it cant be the "gift" of tongues, their are 2 different tongues. The one im talking about is the one paul referred to in 1 Corinthians 14:2/18, which i posted below.

B- The bible does say that words spoken in a tongue are not intelligible and no one understands you, but you are uttering the mysteries of God with your spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But while I am inside the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct other people than ten thousand words in a tongue.
1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongues does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
C- There are many many reasons why speaking in tongues cannot refer to speaking in a language foreign to the hearer.
1. Speaking in a foreign language doesnt mean speaking mysteries to God with your spirit.
2. 1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. Speaking in a foreign language doesnt mean speaking with the spirit.
3. Acts 10:45-46 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. What does speaking in a language foreign to the hearer have to do with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Im only saying why speaking in tongues doesnt refer to a language foreign to the hearer, i adressed why their are 2 different tongues earlier.
There are many more reasons, but this is solid enough.

D- The bible shows that the tongue-talkers got it right.
1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongues does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
"utters" For those who call speaking in tongues "uncontrolled", the bible says it's your spirit praying it, and no one understands it.
Im only quoting one scripture, but there are many more here and in 1stCorinthians12/14 and above.

I have no problems when folks want to speak in tongues....

Speaking with your spirit is essential to the christian life, otherwise you will be like a dry well, showing none of the signs that the bible says a christian will show.
Mark 17-18 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
God wants to shew forth rivers of living water in us, his will is that our cups overflow.
What has happened to our hopes? Many christians today do not understand the hope of our calling. Satan comes up with all sorts of lies and deceptions to convince them that God doesn't want to work supernaturally in and through their life.
1 Corinthians 2:4-5 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
Jesus didn't come to die to save us just after death. Jesus died to redeem us from our wretchedness now! It is God's will to speak to us often. It is God's will to work miraculously through us, but the gifts vary from person to person. It is God's will that we should not die, but that we should be taken directly to heaven, or taken there right after we die like moses. It is not God who has changed, but we as the body of christ have not fully shaken the corruption of the catholic church. Tongues is a vital (vital.) part of seeking God. Seek God daily, long for his gifts.

Long that he would work miraculously through you and show unbelievers the salvation Jesus and uplift believers through you. Is God unfair? Does he work through people randomly? No, his character is revealed to us through the bible, and the bible never said that God is a carnal physical God that has limited power. Yes God works through he wills, but his will is revealed in the bible and its his will that we should know him personally.

Tongues is vital to the christian life.
1 Corinthians 14:4
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
But if you dont speak in tongues and spend time with God praying or worshipping, its unlikely that you'd do either.

 

[Sophia7]

The gift of tongues was not given to everyone:

1CO 12:4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

1CO 12:7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the intrpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

Speaking in tongues is not required in order for Christians to prove that they are filled with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives gifts as He sees fit.

 

[Shizzle]

The Spirit gives gifts as He sees fit.

Speaking in different kinds of tongues is different than speaking in tongues. There are 2 things reffered to as tongues in the bible. I know my last post was longer than most would read, but this i can prove easily.

Tongues- the language everyone understands, the "gift" of tongues.
Acts 2:11 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?"
1 Corinthians 12:10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

Tongues- the language no one understands, the un-intelligble language.
1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
1 Corinthians 14:18-19 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

So there are 2 different tongues, the gift of tongues is not given to all, notice it always says "speaking in different kinds of tongues"? in the verse you quoted too. But the second is for everyone, it sounds like babble to the natural ear, but scripture says we are speaking the mysteries of God.

1 Corinthians 14:23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

Everyone speaks in the heavenly prayer language.

Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany (all of) those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; (new tongues, not different tongues)

Speaking in tongues edifies us.

1 Corinthians 14:4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

 

[Sophia7]

Speaking in different kinds of tongues is different than speaking in tongues. There are 2 things reffered to as tongues in the bible. I know my last post was longer than most would read, but this i can prove easily.

Tongues- the language everyone understands, the "gift" of tongues.
Acts 2:11 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?"
1 Corinthians 12:10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

People understood what the apostles were saying in their own languages because the Holy Spirit interpreted.

Tongues- the language no one understands, the un-intelligble language.
1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
1 Corinthians 14:18-19 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

So there are 2 different tongues, the gift of tongues is not given to all, notice it always says "speaking in different kinds of tongues"? in the verse you quoted too. But the second is for everyone, it sounds like babble to the natural ear, but scripture says we are speaking the mysteries of God.

1 Corinthians 14:23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

Everyone speaks in the heavenly prayer language.

Notice the "if" in this verse. It's saying that if everyone in church were speaking in tongues and unbelievers came in, they would say that people were out of their minds.

Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany (all of) those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; (new tongues, not different tongues)

Here's the whole statement:

17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

Does everyone pick up snakes with their hands and drink deadly poison with no effect? Neither does the sign of tongues accompany every believer.

Speaking in tongues edifies us.

1 Corinthians 14:4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

Yes, but the fact that it edifies those who do it does not mean that everyone is required to do it.

 

[sentipente]

I have no problems with anyone who speaks in tongues. It has never been a sin to speak in tongues. I don't have that gift.