Victory through the blood of Jesus

[masmpg]

One of my favorite ways to study God's word is by doing word studies. It is very easy to use the computer concordance and find where each word is used and where they are used throughout the bible.


This study is about "victory" and "overcome".


I have been baffled by those who say they can sin and be in Christ, or they are righteous while they are sinning, when the bible clearly denounces any aspect of this notion. Clearly we are told that when we are created a "new creature in Christ", that the "old man" is "DEAD". Can we be half dead? When the old man of sin, the flesh, the carnal nature dies can it still be alive and dwelling in us? David tells us in Psalms:66:18: "If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:" If the Lord will not hear our prayers if we just "regard" iniquity in our hearts are we righteous?


The more I dwell on this issue the more the Comforter reveals things to me about the importance of becoming righteous, and even sinless. If it is impossible for humanity to live without sinning why are we told things like this: 1Corinthians:15:57: "But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." or this:

1John:5:4: "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." Can we have victory while we are living in sin? While we are believing and teaching that we will never really have victory over sin in our lives?


What about overcoming? What is it we are to "overcome" in our lives? If we do not overcome these things we will not eat of the tree of life, which means we will not even have access to it.

Here are the overcome verses that are so inspiring, and motivational that our faith needs to grab hold of these and KNOW that we can be overcomers, and have victory over all sin in our lives today, as the Comforter reveals them to us on our walk of sanctification to heaven.


Revelation:2:7: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."

Revelation:2:11: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

Revelation:2:17: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

Revelation:2:26: "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"

Revelation:3:5: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

Revelation:3:12: "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

Revelation:3:21: "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

Revelation:11:7: "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

Revelation:13:7: "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Revelation:17:14: "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

Revelation:21:7: "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."


The bottom line is this: If we can never stop sinning why even try? In fact our trying is what makes it impossible. The ONLY way to have complete victory over all sin in our lives is by grace, (the power of the cross), through faith, which is far more then a few words admitting that we believe. Faith is knowing that whatever God says is true and will happen in our lives even if we do not witness anything happening. When we get on our knees and pray for forgiveness we are not only to know that we are "cleansed from ALL unrighteousness", but we are to know that when we pray for power to have victory to overcome we will have that power when we need it most! The ONLY way to get that power is by taking all of our temptations to the foot of the cross daily which Paul tells us in 1Corinthians:1:18: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." The cross is the heart of the gospel, and the power needed so that no man can boast of his good works. Paul also tells us in Romans:1:16: "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." If the gospel is the power of God and the cross is the power of God, we can safely say that the cross is inseparable from the gospel, and the only way we can have the power to overcome, or even to preach the word we need the cross to be in the center of all our discourses.


I really enjoy John's writings. He does not beat around the bush. He states it plainly like this: 1John:5:4: "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." Our faith MUST overcome the world, but only if our faith is in Jesus and not our church, nor its leaders.


1John:5:5: "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" This verse parallels the last verse in that it defines our faith and belief in Jesus Christ. To really know what faith is, the prayer of Jesus just before He raised Lazarus is a great example. John:11:41-43: "Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me. And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth." Jesus said that He could do nothing of Himself! Jesus was as fully human as you and I, yet His faith grabbed hold of the promises of His Father and He knew that God would do whatever Jesus asked. He knew before it happened that it would happen just for the sake of those standing by who did not have faith. To me this prayer is a great way to strengthen our faith into knowing, instead of just measly believing.

 

[John Hyperspace]

I have been baffled by those who say they can sin and be in Christ

The ONLY way to get that power is by taking all of our sins AND temptations to the foot of the cross daily

How can you take your sins to the foot of the cross daily when your first statement implies you can't sin and be in Christ? If you have sin to take to the foot of the cross, then you're not in Christ: so? Can you sin and be in Christ, or, if you sin you are not in Christ?

 

[Winken]

One of my favorite ways to study God's word is by doing word studies. It is very easy to use the computer concordance and find where each word is used and where they are used throughout the bible.

This study is about "victory" and "overcome".

I have been baffled by those who say they can sin and be in Christ, or they are righteous while they are sinning, when the bible clearly denounces any aspect of this notion. Clearly we are told that when we are created a "new creature in Christ", that the "old man" is "DEAD". Can we be half dead? When the old man of sin, the flesh, the carnal nature dies can it still be alive and dwelling in us? David tells us in Psalms:66:18: "If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:" If the Lord will not hear our prayers if we just "regard" iniquity in our hearts are we righteous?

The more I dwell on this issue the more the Comforter reveals things to me about the importance of becoming righteous, and even sinless. If it is impossible for humanity to live without sinning why are we told things like this: 1Corinthians:15:57: "But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." or this:

1John:5:4: "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." Can we have victory while we are living in sin? While we are believing and teaching that we will never really have victory over sin in our lives?

What about overcoming? What is it we are to "overcome" in our lives? If we do not overcome these things we will not eat of the tree of life, which means we will not even have access to it.

Here are the overcome verses that are so inspiring, and motivational that our faith needs to grab hold of these and KNOW that we can be overcomers, and have victory over all sin in our lives today, as the Comforter reveals them to us on our walk of sanctification to heaven.

Revelation:2:7: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."

Revelation:2:11: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

Revelation:2:17: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

Revelation:2:26: "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"

Revelation:3:5: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

Revelation:3:12: "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

Revelation:3:21: "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

Revelation:11:7: "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

Revelation:13:7: "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Revelation:17:14: "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

Revelation:21:7: "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."

The bottom line is this: If we can never stop sinning why even try? In fact our trying is what makes it impossible. The ONLY way to have complete victory over all sin in our lives is by grace, (the power of the cross), through faith, which is far more then a few words admitting that we believe. Faith is knowing that whatever God says is true and will happen in our lives even if we do not witness anything happening. When we get on our knees and pray for forgiveness we are not only to know that we are "cleansed from ALL unrighteousness", but we are to know that when we pray for power to have victory to overcome we will have that power when we need it most! The ONLY way to get that power is by taking all of our sins AND temptations to the foot of the cross daily which Paul tells us in 1Corinthians:1:18: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." The cross is the heart of the gospel, and the power needed so that no man can boast of his good works. Paul also tells us in Romans:1:16: "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." If the gospel is the power of God and the cross is the power of God, we can safely say that the cross is inseparable from the gospel, and the only way we can have the power to overcome, or even to preach the word we need the cross to be in the center of all our discourses.

I really enjoy John's writings. He does not beat around the bush. He states it plainly like this: 1John:5:4: "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." Our faith MUST overcome the world, but only if our faith is in Jesus and not our church, nor its leaders.

1John:5:5: "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" This verse parallels the last verse in that it defines our faith and belief in Jesus Christ. To really know what faith is, the prayer of Jesus just before He raised Lazarus is a great example. John:11:41-43: "Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me. And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth." Jesus said that He could do nothing of Himself! Jesus was as fully human as you and I, yet His faith grabbed hold of the promises of His Father and He knew that God would do whatever Jesus asked. He knew before it happened that it would happen just for the sake of those standing by who did not have faith. To me this prayer is a great way to strengthen our faith into knowing, instead of just measly believing.

I became somewhat concerned while reading your commentary, until you arrived at that portion which begins with "the bottom line is this."

From that point on I agree with what you have written. You will stay strong in Him.

 

[masmpg]

How can you take your sins to the foot of the cross daily when your first statement implies you can't sin and be in Christ? If you have sin to take to the foot of the cross, then you're not in Christ: so? Can you sin and be in Christ, or, if you sin you are not in Christ?

I guess I should have stated that we need to take our temptations to the foot of the cross when we are assaulted by them daily. But even if we do take our sins, which many do not know what a sin is, daily to the cross, or like Paul said "I die daily". Does this mean that Paul's carnal nature comes to life every day? If I say to God in my prayer "forgive me for my sins" every morning, this does not mean that I have sinned. When I confess my sins I know that He cleanses me from all unrighteousness because He said He would, and from that moment, no matter if I say forgive me for my sins, in general, does not mean I have sinned.

I will fix it so it is more clear.

 

[John Hyperspace]

I guess I should have stated that we need to take our temptations to the foot of the cross when we are assaulted by them daily. But even if we do take our sins, which many do not know what a sin is, daily to the cross, or like Paul said "I die daily". Does this mean that Paul's carnal nature comes to life every day? If I say to God in my prayer "forgive me for my sins" every morning, this does not mean that I have sinned. When I confess my sins I know that He cleanses me from all unrighteousness because He said He would, and from that moment, no matter if I say forgive me for my sins, in general, does not mean I have sinned.

I will fix it so it is more clear.

So a person must be sinless or otherwise they're not in Christ? So basically anyone who isn't perfectly sinless after initial confession is no longer in Christ (or, were they ever?). I suppose then those who confessed on their death beds would have the best situation of being saved since they escaped the ability to, sin and not be in Christ? Or, are you saying that someone who sins was never in Christ in the first place? Or, are you saying when we sin, we are outside of Christ, and then if the next day we don't sin, we are back in, until we sin, then back out? I'm just a little fuzzy on the logic.

 

[bling]

This is a huge subject, it is neglected from the pulpit but not from scripture. There are many questions that need to be addressed concerning sin, which religious leaders seem to avoid.

The reasons I see stemming from a poor understanding of: God’s objective, man’s objective, why God created man in the first place, the purpose of sin, human nature, Adam and Eve, forgiveness and atonement.

All these are huge subjects in themselves, so where do we begin?


Is man’s objective in this life to: “Never ever sin?” If it is all have failed, so why did God not start over?

God allowed Adam and Eve to sin, so is there some purpose behind the nonbeliever sinning that might help the nonbeliever fulfill his earthly objective?

There may be a purpose behind sin for the nonbeliever, but there seems to be no purpose for the believer to continue sinning, so can we stop?

You want to stop sinning which is great, but the Spirit that dwells within you does not want to be inactive (sit around not sinning may keep you from hurting others, but it does not help others). Continuously thinking about what you cannot do, or have, will not keep you from doing it or getting it (that might have been part of Eve’s problem).

The way to “stop sinning” is to quit trying not to sin and spend all your time and energy doing good stuff to help others (the Spirit can really participate in that kind of activity and will take the lead and really do it for you [in spite of you]). You cannot “stop” doing stuff, but you can spend all your time doing good stuff. Like Eve, who had hundreds of trees to eat from, God has blessed you with hundreds of opportunities to do good stuff. Just take the little faith and Love you have and do something with it but do not do it because I said to do it, but do it purely out of gratitude for what God has done for you.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.


Many Christians, when talking about the issue of the sin, do not use the language and meaning of scripture. I hear Christians say things like, we'll always sin, we sin every day, etc. The problem is, that isn't what the scripture says. It doesn't say anywhere in scripture the words "when" we sin. It only says "if" we sin.


When we sin is an attitude that makes allowance for the sin in our lives. It says, this is the way I am and will always be this way. If we sin is an attitude that makes no allowance for sin and says I am not this way, nor do I always have to be.


Please understand, I am not talking about sinless perfectionism. I am simply stating what the scripture says: it is “if” not when. That means we never had to sin, and there is no excuse for any of our sin.

Is it “Good News” to know you cannot blame your sins on: “I am only human”?

Since the Holy Spirit cannot participate in sinning, would you first have to quench the Spirit to sin?

Have you ever been around a group of Christians that took comfort and joy in the fact they did not have to sin?

I was very happy as a Christian with the belief: “we all had to keep on sinning some, but would get better at not sinning over time.” All Christians sin so it did not really bother me. I did not send anyone on a guilt trip. All this went on wonderfully until I substituted one Sunday to teach a Bible class at the state youth prison (13-21 hard timers).

My experience went like this:

I got thrown into (volunteered if needed) with prisoners program teaching Bible (one hour on Sunday morning to a group of 14 with three other Christians teaching groups of 14) and taught three groups of “Christians”. The first group is guys (going to school it is called) that start out their stay causing trouble getting thrown in the tank. Then they start increasingly attending the services, carrying their Bible, being nice, and say they are Christians. By the time the parole board meets they have this glowing report showing continued improvement tied to their increased spirituality and are released. These guys still carry weapons, are members of a gang, and every prisoner know they just “went to school” to get out. The second group were converted before they went to prison (grandma conversions), but watch raunchy TV, hang with a loss group, laugh at off colored jokes, are not always talking about Jesus and are not trying to convert others. Their first day the snitches see this, the snitches talk to the Bulls that approach these “Christians” saying you are not a Christian and make them a slave (often sexual) or at best gang member. They still come to Bible study on Sunday so they can tell Granny (who visits them Sunday afternoon) what they learned, but they are slaves (sometimes sexually) to some bull. The third group is fanatical, they stick close to each other, they: study, pray, witness to everyone, and avoid even a hint of insincerity that the snitches could see. They carry no weapons, but step between those that are being beaten especially in persecution. They had grown over the last 3 years from just a couple of guys to now 42, but it came at a high price. Each convert had on the day he was baptized given up the protection of his gang membership, turned over his weapons along with all his possessions (the gang owns everything including them), they were beaten if not by the gang they left, then by other gangs looking for payback and then they were watch constantly looking for any sign the snitches might interpret as weakness (anything less than what Christ would do in the situation, would result in a beating with the hope of the gang to make them a slave, since only true Christians would die for the cuase). There is absolutely no privacy and these Christians never wanted to be found alone. They slept in barracks where at least one stayed awake all night praying over them, so they could sleep without the fear of being smashed in the head in the middle of the night. These guys believed and counted on power from the Holy Spirit, I did not know existed. They come battered and bruised each week hungry for some real meaningful Christ like lesson that goes beyond their group study of 40+hours that week on the same subject, which I could not provide. They mostly helped me with my poor example of Christianity and lack of knowledge and lack of wisdom.

The point is gang members could attend my class without retribution from their gang, but as soon as they committed to emersion baptism they were putting their life on the line, both from their old gang and gangs they had fought in the past.


One example of what I learned from them was: “You do not even try to keep from sinning (be on the defensive), but try to be involved in the next minute, in doing something really good (constantly on the offensive) then the Holy Spirit can be involved with you in doing and you keep doing good stuff all day and night and pick it up the next day. You just do not have time to be involved in any sinning.

 

[Winken]

This is a huge subject, it is neglected from the pulpit but not from scripture. There are many questions that need to be addressed concerning sin, which religious leaders seem to avoid.

The reasons I see stemming from a poor understanding of: God’s objective, man’s objective, why God created man in the first place, the purpose of sin, human nature, Adam and Eve, forgiveness and atonement.

All these are huge subjects in themselves, so where do we begin?


Is man’s objective in this life to: “Never ever sin?” If it is all have failed, so why did God not start over?

God allowed Adam and Eve to sin, so is there some purpose behind the nonbeliever sinning that might help the nonbeliever fulfill his earthly objective?

There may be a purpose behind sin for the nonbeliever, but there seems to be no purpose for the believer to continue sinning, so can we stop?

You want to stop sinning which is great, but the Spirit that dwells within you does not want to be inactive (sit around not sinning may keep you from hurting others, but it does not help others). Continuously thinking about what you cannot do, or have, will not keep you from doing it or getting it (that might have been part of Eve’s problem).

The way to “stop sinning” is to quit trying not to sin and spend all your time and energy doing good stuff to help others (the Spirit can really participate in that kind of activity and will take the lead and really do it for you [in spite of you]). You cannot “stop” doing stuff, but you can spend all your time doing good stuff. Like Eve, who had hundreds of trees to eat from, God has blessed you with hundreds of opportunities to do good stuff. Just take the little faith and Love you have and do something with it but do not do it because I said to do it, but do it purely out of gratitude for what God has done for you.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.


Many Christians, when talking about the issue of the sin, do not use the language and meaning of scripture. I hear Christians say things like, we'll always sin, we sin every day, etc. The problem is, that isn't what the scripture says. It doesn't say anywhere in scripture the words "when" we sin. It only says "if" we sin.


When we sin is an attitude that makes allowance for the sin in our lives. It says, this is the way I am and will always be this way. If we sin is an attitude that makes no allowance for sin and says I am not this way, nor do I always have to be.


Please understand, I am not talking about sinless perfectionism. I am simply stating what the scripture says: it is “if” not when. That means we never had to sin, and there is no excuse for any of our sin.

Is it “Good News” to know you cannot blame your sins on: “I am only human”?

Since the Holy Spirit cannot participate in sinning, would you first have to quench the Spirit to sin?

Have you ever been around a group of Christians that took comfort and joy in the fact they did not have to sin?

I was very happy as a Christian with the belief: “we all had to keep on sinning some, but would get better at not sinning over time.” All Christians sin so it did not really bother me. I did not send anyone on a guilt trip. All this went on wonderfully until I substituted one Sunday to teach a Bible class at the state youth prison (13-21 hard timers).

My experience went like this:

I got thrown into (volunteered if needed) with prisoners program teaching Bible (one hour on Sunday morning to a group of 14 with three other Christians teaching groups of 14) and taught three groups of “Christians”. The first group is guys (going to school it is called) that start out their stay causing trouble getting thrown in the tank. Then they start increasingly attending the services, carrying their Bible, being nice, and say they are Christians. By the time the parole board meets they have this glowing report showing continued improvement tied to their increased spirituality and are released. These guys still carry weapons, are members of a gang, and every prisoner know they just “went to school” to get out. The second group were converted before they went to prison (grandma conversions), but watch raunchy TV, hang with a loss group, laugh at off colored jokes, are not always talking about Jesus and are not trying to convert others. Their first day the snitches see this, the snitches talk to the Bulls that approach these “Christians” saying you are not a Christian and make them a slave (often sexual) or at best gang member. They still come to Bible study on Sunday so they can tell Granny (who visits them Sunday afternoon) what they learned, but they are slaves (sometimes sexually) to some bull. The third group is fanatical, they stick close to each other, they: study, pray, witness to everyone, and avoid even a hint of insincerity that the snitches could see. They carry no weapons, but step between those that are being beaten especially in persecution. They had grown over the last 3 years from just a couple of guys to now 42, but it came at a high price. Each convert had on the day he was baptized given up the protection of his gang membership, turned over his weapons along with all his possessions (the gang owns everything including them), they were beaten if not by the gang they left, then by other gangs looking for payback and then they were watch constantly looking for any sign the snitches might interpret as weakness (anything less than what Christ would do in the situation, would result in a beating with the hope of the gang to make them a slave, since only true Christians would die for the cuase). There is absolutely no privacy and these Christians never wanted to be found alone. They slept in barracks where at least one stayed awake all night praying over them, so they could sleep without the fear of being smashed in the head in the middle of the night. These guys believed and counted on power from the Holy Spirit, I did not know existed. They come battered and bruised each week hungry for some real meaningful Christ like lesson that goes beyond their group study of 40+hours that week on the same subject, which I could not provide. They mostly helped me with my poor example of Christianity and lack of knowledge and lack of wisdom.

The point is gang members could attend my class without retribution from their gang, but as soon as they committed to emersion baptism they were putting their life on the line, both from their old gang and gangs they had fought in the past.


One example of what I learned from them was: “You do not even try to keep from sinning (be on the defensive), but try to be involved in the next minute, in doing something really good (constantly on the offensive) then the Holy Spirit can be involved with you in doing and you keep doing good stuff all day and night and pick it up the next day. You just do not have time to be involved in any sinning.

Clarifying "sin" has become somewhat complicated, for reasons "I" cannot comprehend. Therefore, I look to the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for posting.

 

[masmpg]

So a person must be sinless or otherwise they're not in Christ? So basically anyone who isn't perfectly sinless after initial confession is no longer in Christ (or, were they ever?). I suppose then those who confessed on their death beds would have the best situation of being saved since they escaped the ability to, sin and not be in Christ? Or, are you saying that someone who sins was never in Christ in the first place? Or, are you saying when we sin, we are outside of Christ, and then if the next day we don't sin, we are back in, until we sin, then back out? I'm just a little fuzzy on the logic.

John, unless people believe in "once 'saved' always 'saved'" This is the truth. Many profess that they do not believe in once saved always saved but in fact they do. Yes, unless our sins are confessed and we believe that we are cleansed from all unrighteousness we are in fact NOT in Christ. Righteousness by faith means that our faith takes hold on Jesus perfection and makes it our own, but only through confession, and victory is this possible. There are things we must do in order to be saved, and things we must not do in order not to be lost.

When we are becoming more "sanctified" on our walk to heaven the Comforter convicts us of the things we need to know. When we agree and follow these convictions we are walking in sanctification, if we do not follow these convictions, which can easily be distinguished from the deceiver by following this simple rule found in Isaiah:8:20: "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them", we are NOT in Christ and must repent of our errors. It seems like a yoyo but when we look at biblical characters in the past we will see that God will always give us time AND conviction to come back to Him. In Genesis God said, when Eve bit the fruit that "in that day they will surely die". Did they die on that day? That day was the beginning of death for mankind, but God, who is extremely longsuffering will always give us time, and He knows our fate, even though we do not.

Far too many want to take the easy road of following their pastor, or traditional doctrinal teachings of a denomination, and they attend church and obediently walk in the commandments of men instead of following God's advice or "study to show thyself approved unto God". The bible is our ONLY source for salvation. The church is a good place for learning and fellowship, BUT if we do not prove all things from God's holy word the KJV bible we will be lost. We are told in 1 John that we are to let no man teach us. This means that whatever we hear must be proven by the bible. The Bereans were commended for studying what Paul said to make certain it was from the bible or not.

My life study has been the most important and perverted doctrine of all, SALVATION! This must be everyone's main goal as Christians. To know positively BY FAITH that what they believe is truth, from the word of God, NOT any pulpit!

Never forget Romans 1:5 which states: "By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:" We have been given grace FOR OBEDIENCE! Grace is not a do nothing admission of some sort of sanctified lounge chair. The whole process of sanctification, through the conviction of the Comforter can ONLY be carried out by grace through faith in the cross of calvary, which Paul says is the power of God.

About the "death bed" confession, I have a story to tell. I was privileged to lead out in bible study every day for 6 years. We read the bible only, book by book, and found that to be the best way to bring people to the study. We tried study guides, and subjective studies and people stopped coming, so we read the bible for 6 years. When we got to the end of a book we voted on the next book. One man came to me and said "I am convicted to attend but I know enough and will confess before I die". This man overdose one day and died. His heart stopped and the EMT resuscitated him. The first words out of his mouth were "I am going to kill that SOB who stole my money"! Do you think he confessed his sin before he died?

Our lives must be completely given to God. My prayer every morning is that God would take my life and do His will with me, and give me the power and strength to keep my life in His hands every moment of every day. I silently pray that prayer throughout every day, especially when temptations enter into my mind. Paul said in Phlippians:1:21-24: "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you." Until this morning, when the Comforter showed me that he indeed is referring to physical death, I use to believe this to be spiritual death. But as we read it He talks about physical death. My prayer is along these lines. I would rather be laid to rest then to live through this sin sick world and the persecution that is coming. A time of trouble which Daniel 12:1 tells us "such as never was since there was a nation".

 

[masmpg]

Clarifying "sin" has become somewhat complicated, for reasons "I" cannot comprehend. Therefore, I look to the Holy Spirit.

Clarifying what sin is is very simple, if we use the bible alone to define itself. We are told in 1John:3:4: "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." Sin is the transgression of the law. This is the simplicity of God's holy word the KJV bible. Running to theologians for answers will only lead us into intellectual, philosophical arguments which amount to nothing at all. There is not a cemetery "seminary" today that will lead people to Jesus. The school of the prophets which Elijah started did not last very long. He saw where it was heading before he was taken away in a flaming chariot. Even in Jesus day the school of the prophets morphed into a pharisaical legalistic deciphering of rules and traditions without using the only rule there is. "sola scriptura". When we try to interpret God's word we will always get it wrong. My understanding has very little to do with what the Comforter reveals to me through God's word. My understanding amounts to nothing more than opinions. We read these wonderful promises from Jesus found in John:14:26: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
AND this one found in John:16:13: "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." The "Comforter" or "Spirit of truth" or the "Holy Spirit" will #1 teach us ALL things, and #2 Guide us into ALL truth. Does this leave any room for man's interpretation? When the Holy Spirit leads, those who are being led will be in perfect unity, like the disciples on the day of pentecost when they were in one place in one accord, having the same mind.

When we submit to this truth the Comforter can and will reveal great things to us.

 

[masmpg]

This is a huge subject, it is neglected from the pulpit but not from scripture. There are many questions that need to be addressed concerning sin, which religious leaders seem to avoid.

I agree. Satan has pulled the wool over our eyes on this most important doctrine. He knows which doctrines are most important, and the doctrine of salvation is the most perverted doctrine there is.

The reasons I see stemming from a poor understanding of: God’s objective, man’s objective, why God created man in the first place, the purpose of sin, human nature, Adam and Eve, forgiveness and atonement.

The main reason I see why this doctrine is not taught from any pulpit is because of mans desire for filthy lucre. It is very easy to fall into spiritual pride preaching smooth era tickling sermons that cause people to throw money at you, thinking that what you are saying is from God when in fact it is from satan himself.

God allowed Adam and Eve to sin, so is there some purpose behind the nonbeliever sinning that might help the nonbeliever fulfill his earthly objective?

God did not necessarily "allow" them to sin, but He created mankind with a free will and man sinned. We can't blame our sins on God, like Adam did, when he said "the woman, whom thou created" caused me to eat.

You want to stop sinning which is great, but the Spirit that dwells within you does not want to be inactive (sit around not sinning may keep you from hurting others, but it does not help others). Continuously thinking about what you cannot do, or have, will not keep you from doing it or getting it (that might have been part of Eve’s problem).

This is one way to look at it, but when the Comforter dwells in us we will never be inactive, and He will make certain that we are made aware of our short comings when we are ready to see them. We will never be held guilty for things we do not know. God reveals our sins to us throughout our walk of sanctification. While we are doing the Lord's work, and following the guidance of the Holy Spirit our minds will be filled with His counsel, and not only will He convict us of things in our lives that will keep us out of heaven, but He will also give us the strength to carry out whatever He demands of us, like repentance, forgiveness of others, or even paying back something we stole in the past. My prayer has always been "Lord please reveal anything to me that will keep me out of your kingdom." When that prayer is uttered beware of the consequences. The Comforter will show us things that need to be taken out of our lives.

The way to “stop sinning” is to quit trying not to sin and spend all your time and energy doing good stuff to help others (the Spirit can really participate in that kind of activity and will take the lead and really do it for you [in spite of you]). You cannot “stop” doing stuff, but you can spend all your time doing good stuff. Like Eve, who had hundreds of trees to eat from, God has blessed you with hundreds of opportunities to do good stuff. Just take the little faith and Love you have and do something with it but do not do it because I said to do it, but do it purely out of gratitude for what God has done for you.

I like this. As long as we are listening to the Holy Spirit's "still small voice" speaking to us we will be on the right path. BUT satan yells in our ears to try to drown out the Holy Spirit. The way I put it is this: Jesus "knocks at the door of our heart", and if, and when, we hear His voice and open the door He will come in. He promises He will. BUT satan has no rules, he breaks the door down and does all he is allowed to do to entice us to do our own will instead of following the still small voice.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Many Christians, when talking about the issue of the sin, do not use the language and meaning of scripture. I hear Christians say things like, we'll always sin, we sin every day, etc. The problem is, that isn't what the scripture says. It doesn't say anywhere in scripture the words "when" we sin. It only says "if" we sin.

I fully agree with this. Far too many pulpits scream this false idea that we will, or can never stop sinning, but have no biblical support for it. We read further in 1John:3:8: "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." These two verses lead me out of every denomination because they have no reasoning against these. The gospel is this simple. He that comitteth sin is of the devil! It is impossible to sin with Christ in our hearts. We either serve God or mammon. We cannot serve both, and Jesus cannot share the throne of the heart with the devil.

When we sin is an attitude that makes allowance for the sin in our lives. It says, this is the way I am and will always be this way. If we sin is an attitude that makes no allowance for sin and says I am not this way, nor do I always have to be.

Right again. We need to get off the preconceived opinion that we cannot stop sinning. We MUST move on into the faith the grabs hold of the righteousness of Christ and makes it our own through the power of the cross (grace) that promises us that if we confess our sins we are cleansed from ALL unrighteousness, and that we will have power to overcome every temptation when we look to the cross for that power.

Please understand, I am not talking about sinless perfectionism. I am simply stating what the scripture says: it is “if” not when. That means we never had to sin, and there is no excuse for any of our sin.

I am. When we are sanctified we are sinnless, perfect, sanctified, justified, holy and righteous, through His righteousness. Sanctified means to be holy, or righteous, where justified means to be made righteous. When these things happen our past has absolute zero to do with where we are and what we are. When I mention "be ye therefore perfect..." many say "have you ever sinned". Do you think that after we are converted we have any dealings with our past? Will God condemn us for our past sins after we confess them? As long as we are in Christ we are not accountable for our past sins. We read in Romans:3:24&25: "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" This is huge. Many believe that all they need to do is confess one time and all their sins, past present, and future are somehow miraculously gone, but when we confess our sins only those sins of the past are removed. When/if we sin we must confess that sin soon, immediately. When we do sin we sometimes feel guilty that we will not be forgiven immediately after confession. This is what satan wants us to believe. But we are told IF we confess, He will forgive! 1John 1:9

Is it “Good News” to know you cannot blame your sins on: “I am only human”?

Good question. Even to this day I catch myself thinking that. But it will never cover any unconfessed sins that we are aware of.

Since the Holy Spirit cannot participate in sinning, would you first have to quench the Spirit to sin?

Since it is impossible for God to dwell in the heart of a sinner yes, even before we do the act of sinning, we cherish the thought. Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust you have committed adultery. We need to know when temptation becomes a cherished thought which is a sin in our minds. At this time we have expelled Jesus from our hearts and must invite Him back in through confession and faith to know that confession is adequate because God said it is so.

Have you ever been around a group of Christians that took comfort and joy in the fact they did not have to sin?

I have been to seminars where this true gospel was taught, and the Holy Spirit was so powerful that most people didn't want to leave. Even though the power of the Holy Spirit has little to nothing to do with emotions, these people were so happy and excited to have that truth revealed to them.

I was very happy as a Christian with the belief: “we all had to keep on sinning some, but would get better at not sinning over time.” All Christians sin so it did not really bother me. I did not send anyone on a guilt trip. All this went on wonderfully until I substituted one Sunday to teach a Bible class at the state youth prison (13-21 hard timers).

Yes the truth will come out in prison. You have a captive audience who are more than willing to learn, some truly sincere and eager to learn, some to hide from gang violence, but God makes certain that only those who are truly dedicated to Him will have His protection.

One example of what I learned from them was: “You do not even try to keep from sinning (be on the defensive), but try to be involved in the next minute, in doing something really good (constantly on the offensive) then the Holy Spirit can be involved with you in doing and you keep doing good stuff all day and night and pick it up the next day. You just do not have time to be involved in any sinning.

This is true, but we must always be on guard for convictions in our lives of things we need to change. Doing these kinds of things (good works) will reveal things to our hearts, and we must always remember that a teacher must be teachable. He that is greatest among us is servant of all. AND we must always keep our ears, and conscience open to the reproof of the Holy Spirit, which in fact is His job John 16:7&8.

God bless your studies. God is waking up His army for the Spiritual battle coming. Beware of overzealous legislation. The only thing worse then legislating immorality is legislating morality and playing God like the Roman church during the dark ages. A church run state world is on the horizon, but if we are grounded in the word we will be part of the very elect who will not be deceived.[/QUOTE]

 

[masmpg]

Here is a great short video that will melt the hearts of those truly seeking Jesus.

 

[bling]

I agree. Satan has pulled the wool over our eyes on this most important doctrine. He knows which doctrines are most important, and the doctrine of salvation is the most perverted doctrine there is.



The main reason I see why this doctrine is not taught from any pulpit is because of mans desire for filthy lucre. It is very easy to fall into spiritual pride preaching smooth era tickling sermons that cause people to throw money at you, thinking that what you are saying is from God when in fact it is from satan himself.



God did not necessarily "allow" them to sin, but He created mankind with a free will and man sinned. We can't blame our sins on God, like Adam did, when he said "the woman, whom thou created" caused me to eat.



This is one way to look at it, but when the Comforter dwells in us we will never be inactive, and He will make certain that we are made aware of our short comings when we are ready to see them. We will never be held guilty for things we do not know. God reveals our sins to us throughout our walk of sanctification. While we are doing the Lord's work, and following the guidance of the Holy Spirit our minds will be filled with His counsel, and not only will He convict us of things in our lives that will keep us out of heaven, but He will also give us the strength to carry out whatever He demands of us, like repentance, forgiveness of others, or even paying back something we stole in the past. My prayer has always been "Lord please reveal anything to me that will keep me out of your kingdom." When that prayer is uttered beware of the consequences. The Comforter will show us things that need to be taken out of our lives.



I like this. As long as we are listening to the Holy Spirit's "still small voice" speaking to us we will be on the right path. BUT satan yells in our ears to try to drown out the Holy Spirit. The way I put it is this: Jesus "knocks at the door of our heart", and if, and when, we hear His voice and open the door He will come in. He promises He will. BUT satan has no rules, he breaks the door down and does all he is allowed to do to entice us to do our own will instead of following the still small voice.



I fully agree with this. Far too many pulpits scream this false idea that we will, or can never stop sinning, but have no biblical support for it. We read further in 1John:3:8: "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." These two verses lead me out of every denomination because they have no reasoning against these. The gospel is this simple. He that comitteth sin is of the devil! It is impossible to sin with Christ in our hearts. We either serve God or mammon. We cannot serve both, and Jesus cannot share the throne of the heart with the devil.



Right again. We need to get off the preconceived opinion that we cannot stop sinning. We MUST move on into the faith the grabs hold of the righteousness of Christ and makes it our own through the power of the cross (grace) that promises us that if we confess our sins we are cleansed from ALL unrighteousness, and that we will have power to overcome every temptation when we look to the cross for that power.



I am. When we are sanctified we are sinnless, perfect, sanctified, justified, holy and righteous, through His righteousness. Sanctified means to be holy, or righteous, where justified means to be made righteous. When these things happen our past has absolute zero to do with where we are and what we are. When I mention "be ye therefore perfect..." many say "have you ever sinned". Do you think that after we are converted we have any dealings with our past? Will God condemn us for our past sins after we confess them? As long as we are in Christ we are not accountable for our past sins. We read in Romans:3:24&25: "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" This is huge. Many believe that all they need to do is confess one time and all their sins, past present, and future are somehow miraculously gone, but when we confess our sins only those sins of the past are removed. When/if we sin we must confess that sin soon, immediately. When we do sin we sometimes feel guilty that we will not be forgiven immediately after confession. This is what satan wants us to believe. But we are told IF we confess, He will forgive! 1John 1:9



Good question. Even to this day I catch myself thinking that. But it will never cover any unconfessed sins that we are aware of.



Since it is impossible for God to dwell in the heart of a sinner yes, even before we do the act of sinning, we cherish the thought. Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust you have committed adultery. We need to know when temptation becomes a cherished thought which is a sin in our minds. At this time we have expelled Jesus from our hearts and must invite Him back in through confession and faith to know that confession is adequate because God said it is so.



I have been to seminars where this true gospel was taught, and the Holy Spirit was so powerful that most people didn't want to leave. Even though the power of the Holy Spirit has little to nothing to do with emotions, these people were so happy and excited to have that truth revealed to them.



Yes the truth will come out in prison. You have a captive audience who are more than willing to learn, some truly sincere and eager to learn, some to hide from gang violence, but God makes certain that only those who are truly dedicated to Him will have His protection.



This is true, but we must always be on guard for convictions in our lives of things we need to change. Doing these kinds of things (good works) will reveal things to our hearts, and we must always remember that a teacher must be teachable. He that is greatest among us is servant of all. AND we must always keep our ears, and conscience open to the reproof of the Holy Spirit, which in fact is His job John 16:7&8.

God bless your studies. God is waking up His army for the Spiritual battle coming. Beware of overzealous legislation. The only thing worse then legislating immorality is legislating morality and playing God like the Roman church during the dark ages. A church run state world is on the horizon, but if we are grounded in the word we will be part of the very elect who will not be deceived.

[/QUOTE]

A couple of things:

The word “perfect” (telious in the Greek) does not have the same meaning “perfect” we use in English. It might be better translated: complete, made one, mature, fully grown, and all together. So yes we are to be telious, but that does not mean “perfect like Christ is perfect”.

Being complete is not just “not sinning” since a person in a coma does not “sin”. The emphasis needs to be on doing good stuff (helping others with the Spirit) we are on the offensive (we are going up against the gates of hell and it is not the gates attacking us).

Christianity is the only religion I know where you take your short comings of the past and turn them around and make them assists. They become part of your witness to others (the way Paul used his past sins).

Scripture does tell us we can quench the Spirit, so Christian can sin, but they also should recognize the fact the Spirit is not involved and they need to repent and change course. It is one thing to tell Christians they do not have to sin and another to say you can’t sin, do you see the difference? Peter sinned in front of Paul and Paul publically rebuked him, but that does not mean Peter even at that moment was hell bound. Our salvation is our birthright we received at our new birth and like Esau that birthright can be given away, but not taken away, lost, stolen or paid back.

 

[masmpg]

The word “perfect” (telious in the Greek) does not have the same meaning “perfect” we use in English. It might be better translated: complete, made one, mature, fully grown, and all together. So yes we are to be telious, but that does not mean “perfect like Christ is perfect”.

I agree with this. Far too many Christians take worldly definitions instead of using God's word to define Christian principles and even words. I try not to argue about definitions, but when a professed Christian stands firmly on some definition which defies the word of God, and even is opposite, it is hard to keep silent. The word sin is a good case in point. Most people will come up with some sort of opinion about what they "feel" sin is, when the bible clearly defines what sin is. 1 John 3:4 tells us that sin IS the transgression of the law. PERIOD. to take it anywhere else is opinion and not biblical.

Being complete is not just “not sinning” since a person in a coma does not “sin”. The emphasis needs to be on doing good stuff (helping others with the Spirit) we are on the offensive (we are going up against the gates of hell and it is not the gates attacking us).

This is true. When we do the Lord's work our mind is taken over by the Holy Spirit and it would take effort to sin. But the emphasis must be on the gates of hell. We are not to contemplate, nor meditate on this issue, but we are to always have the faith to know that we are, not only protected from the attacks, as long as we have on the WHOLE armour, but our faith must KNOW that our efforts will not be empty, because God is the One working through us.

Christianity is the only religion I know where you take your short comings of the past and turn them around and make them assists. They become part of your witness to others (the way Paul used his past sins).

Testimonies are very powerful tools when they are used to promote God's kingdom. When I first became Christian I was richly bless by the heartfelt, tear jerking testimonies from many. But today I hear testimonies that uplift the teller instead of God and this causes me much heartache and grief because my goal is the same as God's, and that is to see all God's creation in the kingdom.

Scripture does tell us we can quench the Spirit, so Christian can sin, but they also should recognize the fact the Spirit is not involved and they need to repent and change course. It is one thing to tell Christians they do not have to sin and another to say you can’t sin, do you see the difference? Peter sinned in front of Paul and Paul publically rebuked him, but that does not mean Peter even at that moment was hell bound. Our salvation is our birthright we received at our new birth and like Esau that birthright can be given away, but not taken away, lost, stolen or paid back.

When we sin we are definitely hell bound. The bible is crystal clear on this. We "give away" our birthright by sinning. Many tell me that we can be "separated" from God and still be in the "saved" condition. This deception will cause many to lose their salvation. Isaiah writes in Isaiah:59:2: "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." How can we think that we are in a "saved" condition when we are told in Psalms:66:18: "If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:" Prayer is the ONLY means of asking forgiveness!
How can we believe that we are "saved" when we just "regard" iniquity in our hearts. This is not committing sin, this is just contemplating it.

The very simple response to this is found in 1John:3:8&9: "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." To me this is very simple. This context is what led me through every mainstream denomination. I asked pastors from them all about this issue. Every answer I got was some opinion with NO scripture to support it. When we sin we are of the devil. There is no two masters. Either we are serving God or mammon! This is very simple reasoning, the reasoning which the bible was written on. It is impossible to sin with Jesus in our hearts. Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust you have sinned. We personally need to decide in our own minds when that temptation becomes a sin, and at that moment we have expelled Jesus from our life, until we repent of that sin. We are promise that IF, not when, but IF we confess our sins He will cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. There is no such thing as confess once and all our sins are forgiven past present and future, nor is there "once 'saved' always as 'saved'".

 

[Ron Gurley]

OP: Q1: "Victory through the "blood of Jesus "

SEE:

How did Jesus pay our sin debt?