Vatican gripped by gay and left wing cliques, says whistleblower

[Michie]

A union representing the Vatican’s lay employees has distanced itself from an anonymous interview in which a worker complained bitterly about a stranglehold of gay and left-wing cliques over the Holy See.

The Association of Lay Vatican Employees nevertheless confirmed mounting “tension and dissatisfaction” among the Pope’s workforce over poor financial management also alleged by an anonymous whistle-blower.

The widely read Italian publication Panorama carried an interview with a Vatican employee identified by the false initials “GF”, complaining that working in the Vatican today has become “an act of pain” and a “via crucis” (way of the cross).

The source said the Pope was dangerously fickle and had surrounded himself with Spanish-speaking favourites with progressive agendas.

“You can’t move up unless you’re a friend of one of the two lobbies that count: either the ‘gay lobby,’ which is extensive and very powerful, or the ‘Santa Marta Club’ around the Pope,” GF said.

Continued below.

Vatican gripped by gay and left wing cliques, says whistleblower - Catholic Herald

A union representing the Vatican’s lay employees has distanced itself from an anonymous interview in which a worker complained bitterly about a stranglehold of gay and left-wing cliques over the Holy See. The Association of Lay Vatican Employees nevertheless confirmed mounting “tension and...

catholicherald.co.uk

 

[RileyG]

Lord have mercy!

 

[chevyontheriver]

“You can’t move up unless you’re a friend of one of the two lobbies that count: either the ‘gay lobby,’ which is extensive and very powerful, or the ‘Santa Marta Club’ around the Pope,” GF said.

Even if by some miracle we get a decent new pope he will be hamstrung by the bureaucrats who will surround him.

The Vatican is in deep financial trouble. That will continue until a new pope has a good curia behind him. How to get there?

 

[Michie]

Even if by some miracle we get a decent new pope he will be hamstrung by the bureaucrats who will surround him.

The Vatican is in deep financial trouble. That will continue until a new pope has a good curia behind him. How to get there?

Well the way things are at this point I do not see any quick fixes.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Well the way things are at this point I do not see any quick fixes.

Nope.

Now it comes out that Stanislaw Dziwisz may have been just one more member of the Lavender Mafia. I hope it's not true. But I fear it is. It would explain why several private notes to pope John Paul II, given in confidence to Dziwisz to hand directly to the pope, never got there. He may not have been an honest broker.

I don't know how, but with Vatican deficits something big will change, one way or another. It's going to be a bumpy ride. The next pope will have a wild time of it. Either he will be a Lavender Man doing the same old same old we have come to know, a good but overwhelmed saint of a man who tries to clean out the filth but fails, or an astounding astounding man who somehow is guided by the Holy Spirit through all of the minefields. We can hope.

 

[FaithT]

A union representing the Vatican’s lay employees has distanced itself from an anonymous interview in which a worker complained bitterly about a stranglehold of gay and left-wing cliques over the Holy See.

The Association of Lay Vatican Employees nevertheless confirmed mounting “tension and dissatisfaction” among the Pope’s workforce over poor financial management also alleged by an anonymous whistle-blower.

The widely read Italian publication Panorama carried an interview with a Vatican employee identified by the false initials “GF”, complaining that working in the Vatican today has become “an act of pain” and a “via crucis” (way of the cross).

The source said the Pope was dangerously fickle and had surrounded himself with Spanish-speaking favourites with progressive agendas.

“You can’t move up unless you’re a friend of one of the two lobbies that count: either the ‘gay lobby,’ which is extensive and very powerful, or the ‘Santa Marta Club’ around the Pope,” GF said.

Continued below.

Vatican gripped by gay and left wing cliques, says whistleblower - Catholic Herald

A union representing the Vatican’s lay employees has distanced itself from an anonymous interview in which a worker complained bitterly about a stranglehold of gay and left-wing cliques over the Holy See. The Association of Lay Vatican Employees nevertheless confirmed mounting “tension and...

catholicherald.co.uk

Assuming all this is true, how can we know who to trust within the Church and how can we continue to respect all of the people we’re supposed to look up to? Priests, Bishops the Pope, etc.?

 

[FaithT]

Nope.

Now it comes out that Stanislaw Dziwisz may have been just one more member of the Lavender Mafia. I hope it's not true. But I fear it is. It would explain why several private notes to pope John Paul II, given in confidence to Dziwisz to hand directly to the pope, never got there. He may not have been an honest broker.

I don't know how, but with Vatican deficits something big will change, one way or another. It's going to be a bumpy ride. The next pope will have a wild time of it. Either he will be a Lavender Man doing the same old same old we have come to know, a good but overwhelmed saint of a man who tries to clean out the filth but fails, or an astounding astounding man who somehow is guided by the Holy Spirit through all of the minefields. We can hope.

Is our Pope a member of the Lavender Mafia? I hope my questions about this
isnt offending anyone.

 

[RileyG]

Is our Pope a member of the Lavender Mafia? I hope my questions about this
isnt offending anyone.

Doubtful

 

[RileyG]

Assuming all this is true, how can we know who to trust within the Church and how can we continue to respect all of the people we’re supposed to look up to? Priests, Bishops the Pope, etc.?

God has blessed us with many good priests, and sometimes we must pray for discernment.

 

[FaithT]

God has blessed us with many good priests, and sometimes we must pray for discernment.

I think my priests are good guys but reading about this scares me.

 

[Michie]

Assuming all this is true, how can we know who to trust within the Church and how can we continue to respect all of the people we’re supposed to look up to? Priests, Bishops the Pope, etc.?

The infallible teachings of the Church. What people do or promote has nothing to do with the Faith.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Is our Pope a member of the Lavender Mafia? I hope my questions about this
isnt offending anyone.

Well we don’t really know. We would hope we could presume he’s not.

There have been some awful bad popes in the past. We survived.

 

[RileyG]

I think my priests are good guys but reading about this scares me.

Trust your gut

 

[FaithT]

Trust your gut

My gut tells me they’re good.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Assuming all this is true, how can we know who to trust within the Church and how can we continue to respect all of the people we’re supposed to look up to? Priests, Bishops the Pope, etc.?

We trust God the Father, Jesus Christ His eternal Son, and their Holy Spirit who is our Counselor. That’s how it’s always been. Our popes we trust in rare circumstances of papal infallibility, our bishops we trust in rare circumstances of infallibility in council together, our priests we trust when they accord themselves with sound morals and good teaching in accord with the Bible and the Tradition of the Church. Sadly we have to consider that we can’t trust ecclesiastics much farther than we can throw them. But we know we can’t trust most people as far as we can throw them. Our faith is in God whom we can trust. So we’re good.

 

[Wolseley]

The source said the Pope was dangerously fickle and had surrounded himself with Spanish-speaking favourites with progressive agendas.

That doesn't surprise me. He's a South American Jesuit, steeped in liberation theology.

 

[mourningdove~]

We trust God the Father, Jesus Christ His eternal Son, and their Holy Spirit who is our Counselor. That’s how it’s always been. Our popes we trust in rare circumstances of papal infallibility, our bishops we trust in rare circumstances of infallibility in council together, our priests we trust when they accord themselves with sound morals and good teaching in accord with the Bible and the Tradition of the Church. Sadly we have to consider that we can’t trust ecclesiastics much farther than we can throw them. But we know we can’t trust most people as far as we can throw them. Our faith is in God whom we can trust. So we’re good.

I've thought about your post several times, since you shared it.

And I get the point that you are making ... that we are to trust God and no man ... least, that is how you sound in your post ... but I don't completely agree with that thought.

I do think there is a place for sound leadership in a Christian fellowship/church. You and I are older and can find our way now without alot of coaching, but I do think converts and reverts do sometimes need instruction from someone who has clothing and shoes on.

To say that that cannot be found in the Catholic Church is a very sad scenario to present. I do think there are ways for Catholics to get good instruction, even if not from a pope or a parish priest. There are online ministries like Women of Grace, there are EWTN teaching programs, and Matthew Leonard's online course 'The Science of Sainthood' is outstanding for Catholics who want to grow in their understanding of the faith ... to mention just a few options available.

I personally believe there is a place for teachers, mentors, role models in the Body of Christ. Yes, we have the Holy Spirit and He is the Best Teacher of all! Amen! But new persons in the faith, or returning? I think they sometimes also need a 'human' touch, and can benefit greatly from mature mentorship from others farther along on the spiritual journey.

In my faith journey, I have been blessed abundantly by others who mentored me for a time and season. So maybe I am much weaker and needier than you, but the Lord knew what I needed and provided it. Praise the Lord!

 

[chevyontheriver]

I've thought about your post several times, since you shared it.

And I get the point that you are making ... that we are to trust God and no man ... least, that is how you sound in your post ... but I don't completely agree with that thought.

I was in a very pessimistic mood when I wrote that. Maybe I'm still in that mood.

I do think there is a place for sound leadership in a Christian fellowship/church. You and I are older and can find our way now without alot of coaching, but I do think converts and reverts do sometimes need instruction from someone who has clothing and shoes on.

To say that that cannot be found in the Catholic Church is a very sad scenario to present. I do think there are ways for Catholics to get good instruction, even if not from a pope or a parish priest. There are online ministries like Women of Grace, there are EWTN teaching programs, and Matthew Leonard's online course 'The Science of Sainthood' is outstanding for Catholics who want to grow in their understanding of the faith ... to mention just a few options available.

There is a lot of sound leadership still in the Catholic Church. Good catechists, good apologists, good priests, good bishops, good cardinals. It's just not all of them. There are enough unsound leaders that the sound is discordant. How is a seeker to find the sound teachers and avoid the unsound ones?

I personally believe there is a place for teachers, mentors, role models in the Body of Christ. Yes, we have the Holy Spirit and He is the Best Teacher of all! Amen! But new persons in the faith, or returning? I think they sometimes also need a 'human' touch, and can benefit greatly from mature mentorship from others farther along on the spiritual journey.

In my faith journey, I have been blessed abundantly by others who mentored me for a time and season. So maybe I am much weaker and needier than you, but the Lord knew what I needed and provided it. Praise the Lord!

Yes we need human mentors. But it's hard to trust somebody who says he or she is a mentor. It's hard to trust a pastor when the bishop who tells me that pastor is trustworthy is himself questionable. It's hard to trust a bishop who has been appointed by a pope who is himself questionable. Maybe it's all OK. Maybe it's not. Our faith has to be in God, who hopefully clues us in as to how far to trust the teachers, mentors, and role models given to us. We know we can trust the saints. Present company can scare me. I am NOT arguing against authority in the Church. But on the other hand I'm not trusting them either, from the pope on down. And sadly with good reason.

 

[RileyG]

I was in a very pessimistic mood when I wrote that. Maybe I'm still in that mood.

There is a lot of sound leadership still in the Catholic Church. Good catechists, good apologists, good priests, good bishops, good cardinals. It's just not all of them. There are enough unsound leaders that the sound is discordant. How is a seeker to find the sound teachers and avoid the unsound ones?

Yes we need human mentors. But it's hard to trust somebody who says he or she is a mentor. It's hard to trust a pastor when the bishop who tells me that pastor is trustworthy is himself questionable. It's hard to trust a bishop who has been appointed by a pope who is himself questionable. Maybe it's all OK. Maybe it's not. Our faith has to be in God, who hopefully clues us in as to how far to trust the teachers, mentors, and role models given to us. We know we can trust the saints. Present company can scare me. I am NOT arguing against authority in the Church. But on the other hand I'm not trusting them either, from the pope on down. And sadly with good reason.

Well said.

 

[mourningdove~]

Yes we need human mentors. But it's hard to trust somebody who says he or she is a mentor. It's hard to trust a pastor when the bishop who tells me that pastor is trustworthy is himself questionable. It's hard to trust a bishop who has been appointed by a pope who is himself questionable. Maybe it's all OK. Maybe it's not. Our faith has to be in God, who hopefully clues us in as to how far to trust the teachers, mentors, and role models given to us. We know we can trust the saints. Present company can scare me. I am NOT arguing against authority in the Church. But on the other hand I'm not trusting them either, from the pope on down. And sadly with good reason.

Okay.

Well, I guess our spiritual experiences have been very different. And that was the reason for my response.

Your post doesn't give the recent convert or revert much hope.

Mine was just to point out that not all is so bleak and there are ways that God can help us on our spiritual journey, despite corrupt church leadership. Having said that, my discipleship experiences were in the Protestant churches, so maybe all that you say about the state of Catholicism is accurate. In that case, I'm sorry; I didn't know things were that bad.