• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Vadasaurus and the assumption phenomena

pshun2404

Newbie
Jan 26, 2012
6,027
620
✟86,400.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

Awesome - setting up your usual 'poor me pity me' strategy.

Not at all, just many cases of actual experience (oh that's right that does not count as acceptable evidence) yet here it is again.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Why not then blame the popularizers, textbook authors, teachers, producers of TV documentaries? Anyone who really understands science understands the provisional (and sometimes outright speculaltive) nature of scientific statements. Why not blame creationists, who complain that evolution is being presented as a "proven fact" when the only fact being presented is that creationism is fatuous nonsense? That's where the cognitive dissonance comes from.
 
Reactions: Ophiolite
Upvote 0

pshun2404

Newbie
Jan 26, 2012
6,027
620
✟86,400.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

I see it there as well! I just gave an example above. Not saying you are a "creationist" as a TAS or Orph might define it, but do YOU believe in a creator?

When Michael Turner was with FNAL I remember he had calculated that in the Big Bang all the matter and energy of this Universe sprang into existence in (if my memory serves me) 10 to the minus 36 seconds...why would it not be an "In the beginning" or "let there be light and there was light" interpretation for non-scientific ancients? Kovac and others later postulating on inflation theory (though never presenting their speculations as truth) proposed that in less than a second the universe went from sub-atomic to cosmic...(ideation/creation or bara and formation/making or yatzar are two pre-science aspects of this phenomena as the Bible describes the process but remember this information originally was being given to vary ancient and likely uneducated people long before Moses compiled these more ancient thoughts)...

So we have two perspectives at odds. One is that it all existed already (matter was, is, and always shall be, matter without end, Amen) and evolved into "Universe" over a long period of time, and then the other that said the original creation happened at an instant.

My position is that both are true...the original reality (all matter/energy, space and time, etc.) came into existence in a fraction of a second and then according to laws and principles in place already (to govern the behavior of matter/energy) began to evolve and become more. But admittedly I believe that which was when Universe was not from which Universe became is God.
 
Upvote 0

tas8831

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2017
5,611
3,999
56
Northeast
✟101,040.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married


Are you referring to things like the birth of Jesus in a manger? The the USA was founded on Christian principles?

Things like that? Those things are portrayed as facts by large numbers of people, when they are, at best, assumptions or mere beliefs, engineered by those with a vested interest in making the masses manageable.
 
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
9,211
10,099
✟282,395.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
You attack science, by equivocating science with sub-standard popularisations.

No I showed the difference (but I know you cannot admit this)
I can admit that your extensive use of rhetorical tricks and appearance of agenda driven expostulations, utterly conceals any hint that such is your intention.

If you chose to directly and honestly state that you are concerned about the misleading nature of some popularised science, you would find many members, currently opposing you, agreeing. Then we could move onto discuss how that could be tackled. Unfortunately you mix your oppposition to popular science media with your strong reservations about consensus views on evolution.

Edit: If you think the following is an ad hominem attack, please report this post. I'm not sure if it is ad hominem or not. I do know my intention is to move towards things we can agree on and clarify the things we don't. So, for what it's worth, here it is. Your writing style stinks. It obfuscates your intentions, derails serious discussion, creates 'ghost' strawmen and generally fails to deliver much of value. I recommend you change it.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
I see it there as well! I just gave an example above. Not saying you are a "creationist" as a TAS or Orph might define it, but do YOU believe in a creator?
The trouble is, it is becoming very difficult to answer that question honestly without the risk of being branded a right-wing Evangelical Protestant, or being called a liar by them.
 
Upvote 0

pshun2404

Newbie
Jan 26, 2012
6,027
620
✟86,400.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

Nope, no and no!
 
Upvote 0

pshun2404

Newbie
Jan 26, 2012
6,027
620
✟86,400.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

Great! Thanks for insults, now what about Vadasaurus and how it has been presented? What do YOU think?
 
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
9,211
10,099
✟282,395.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Great! Thanks for insults, now what about Vadasaurus and how it has been presented? What do YOU think?
I think there were no insults. If I lacked respect for you I wouldn't bother to engage with you.

I gave you a direct and honest expression of what I think. I hoped that it might encourage more directness and honesty from you. It was a faint hope, but I am an optimist. I've told you what I think.* You didn't like it. What more do you want?

*Executive Summary of my thoughts on this matter:

Since many of the media dealing with science popularisation are more concerned with entertainment (=revenue) than science their products can be replete with exaggeration, over-simplification and (because of inadequate knowledge) misinterpretation and gross errors. This is a serious problem for which there are several potential solutions.

You juxtapose your attacks on these popular media with comments about actual science. The distinction between your two arguments is obscure, so that it comes across as an attack on science. This viewpoint is substantiated by your rejection of many consensus views regarding evolution.

Apparently you do not acknowledge that this equivocation exists, or is a problem. I disagree.
 
Upvote 0

pshun2404

Newbie
Jan 26, 2012
6,027
620
✟86,400.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

Thanks.
 
Upvote 0