Unity Between Catholic and Protestant Christians

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have a question:

How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?

This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers. This is why I am bringing up the question in a more appropriate forum where those who are concerned about this can have a free discussion about the issues.

In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.

 

[HTacianas]

I have a question:

How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?

This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers. This is why I am bringing up the question in a more appropriate forum where those who are concerned about this can have a free discussion about the issues.

In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.

As a knowledgeable, non-Catholic, non-protestant familiar with the subject matter, I strongly recommend you begin by finding out for yourself what the Catholic Church is, rather than what people erroneously assume it to be it might help. It would be a good place to start anyway.

 

[URA]

That's a fair question; the same could be posed to any Protestant who believes that the Catholic Church is unbiblical, and you must be Biblical to be saved. In any case, pointing at both sides doesn't do much to help anything. Can you link to the thread you're referencing?

There is a very good talk by a priest who was addressing a Protestant parish, where he addresses the same question. You can listen to it for free here (it's at the bottom of the list of talks). It's called Knowing Jesus, from Fr. John Riccardo. I think any Christian would be pleased by what is said in this talk.

Free Catholic CDs from the Mary Foundation

May God continue to bless us all!

 

[Michie]

That's a fair question; the same could be posed to any Protestant who believes that the Catholic Church is unbiblical, and you must be Biblical to be saved. In any case, pointing at both sides doesn't do much to help anything. Can you link to the thread you're referencing?

There is a very good talk by a priest who was addressing a Protestant parish, where he addresses the same question. You can listen to it for free here (it's at the bottom of the list of talks). It's called Knowing Jesus, from Fr. John Riccardo. I think any Christian would be pleased by what is said in this talk.

Free Catholic CDs from the Mary Foundation

May God continue to bless us all!

How Catholics and Protestants can get along without getting it wrong

 

[DNB]

I have a question:

How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?

This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers. This is why I am bringing up the question in a more appropriate forum where those who are concerned about this can have a free discussion about the issues.

In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.

I agree Oscarr, but to the extent that I would expect a Protestant to make the same such demands in order for any reconciliation to take place. Which of course, denies a unity on both parts, i.e. one must become the other in order to be accepted.
Therefore, based on the main tenets of each group, i expect there never to be a unity between any of the denominations in all of Christendom, and would only anticipate that the factions and segregation will grow larger and larger as time progresses.
For, to date, we have never, ever, witnessed a denominational schism reunite in theology, without compromising beliefs, ...and even this much is questionable.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

As a knowledgeable, non-Catholic, non-protestant familiar with the subject matter, I strongly recommend you begin by finding out for yourself what the Catholic Church is, rather than what people erroneously assume it to be it might help. It would be a good place to start anyway.

I did a paper in Catholic theology as part of my M.Div., so I have a good appreciation of it. I know one thing for sure - that it believes it is the only true church that has descended from the first Apostles and that every other church is a breakaway from it.

I can go into any other church and fully participate in the Lord's supper, or the Eucharist, but not in a Catholic church. I watched the priest's video on the Catholic forum, and he was quite clear that it has been from right from the start a person had to be fully initiated into the church before he or she can participate in the Eucharist. Because the Catholic church believes that it is the true church right from that time, anyone outside of it has to be initiated into it before they can be accepted as being truly qualified to participate in what is at the centre of the Christian church.

Therefore it is not difficult to see that unless one converts to Catholicism and be fully initiated into it through the set ritual of initiation (as fully described to me by my wife who was educated Catholic) then I am not accepted as a true Christian able to participate in the Catholic Eucharist.

Therefore, I don't see any basis for true unity between Protestants and Catholics because they have fundamental differences in their doctrines and the way they severally worship God.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I agree Oscarr, but to the extent that I would expect a Protestant to make the same such demands in order for any reconciliation to take place. Which of course, denies a unity on both parts, i.e. one must become the other in order to be accepted.
Therefore, based on the main tenets of each group, i expect there never to be a unity between any of the denominations in all of Christendom, and would only anticipate that the factions and segregation will grow larger and larger as time progresses.
For, to date, we have never, ever, witnessed a denominational schism reunite in theology, without compromising beliefs, ...and even this much is questionable.

So there has to be another basis on which unity can be achieved other than denominational union. I believe that unity can be achieved only when each acknowledge that the only basis for unity is that we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, who died on the cross for us, and who rose again to give us eternal life.

There are others who are working towards unity between Jews, Christians and Islam. I don't see that happening either, because the Jews don't believe that Jesus Christ is their Messiah, and Muslims believe that every Jew has to be killed in order for Muslim resurrection can happen on the last day, and they have a record of killing Christians as well. But I guess dreams are free...

 

[HTacianas]

I did a paper in Catholic theology as part of my M.Div., so I have a good appreciation of it. I know one thing for sure - that it believes it is the only true church that has descended from the first Apostles and that every other church is a breakaway from it.

I can go into any other church and fully participate in the Lord's supper, or the Eucharist, but not in a Catholic church. I watched the priest's video on the Catholic forum, and he was quite clear that it has been from right from the start a person had to be fully initiated into the church before he or she can participate in the Eucharist. Because the Catholic church believes that it is the true church right from that time, anyone outside of it has to be initiated into it before they can be accepted as being truly qualified to participate in what is at the centre of the Christian church.

Therefore it is not difficult to see that unless one converts to Catholicism and be fully initiated into it through the set ritual of initiation (as fully described to me by my wife who was educated Catholic) then I am not accepted as a true Christian able to participate in the Catholic Eucharist.

Therefore, I don't see any basis for true unity between Protestants and Catholics because they have fundamental differences in their doctrines and the way they severally worship God.

You cannot go into a Catholic Church, an Orthodox Church, a Coptic Orthodox Church, or a Church of the East and participate in the Eucharist. And that is not meant to exclude you, it is for your protection. From the Didache:

But let no one eat or drink of your Thanksgiving (Eucharist), but they who have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, Give not that which is holy to the dogs. Matthew 7:6

And as Paul said:

1Co 11:29 - For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

 

[prodromos]

I can go into any other church and fully participate in the Lord's supper, or the Eucharist

Not true at all.

 

[Chris V++]

But let no one eat or drink of your Thanksgiving (Eucharist), but they who have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, Give not that which is holy to the dogs. Matthew 7:6

In case you aren't aware, quoting this exact verse suggests the Orthodox regard heterodox as dogs.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You cannot go into a Catholic Church, an Orthodox Church, a Coptic Orthodox Church, or a Church of the East and participate in the Eucharist. And that is not meant to exclude you, it is for your protection. From the Didache:

But let no one eat or drink of your Thanksgiving (Eucharist), but they who have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, Give not that which is holy to the dogs. Matthew 7:6

And as Paul said:

1Co 11:29 - For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

But this is the problem. I have received Jesus Christ as my Saviour, and have been baptised in the name of the Lord. Also I know that when I eat and drink during the Lord's Supper at my church I know that I am honouring the blood of Christ which cleanses me from all unrighteousness, and the body of Christ which has made me whole. So, in Biblical terms, I can't see how I could be excluded from participating in the Lord's Supper in any church, Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant.

So, in my opinion, it is not the Jesus of the Bible who does not consider me a true Christian, but the religious organisation that would prevent me from sharing in the Eucharist with all the others there. That would mean to me that the organisation does not consider me a true Christian according to their doctrinal basis. So there is a difference between their doctrinal belief and what the Bible says about me.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Not true at all.

The Bible says I should be able to. The problem is that some religious organisations have traditions and requirements that they add to the Bible, excluding those who have not been initiated into the "club".

 

[HTacianas]

In case you aren't aware, quoting this exact verse suggests the Orthodox regard heterodox as dogs.

So what did Jesus mean by that?

 

[Chris V++]

That would mean to me that the organisation does not consider me a true Christian according to their doctrinal basis. So there is a difference between their doctrinal belief and what the Bible says about me.

It does appear so. But they do recognize the protestant baptism. But baptism alone is lacking. Chrismation is more important.

 

[HTacianas]

But this is the problem. I have received Jesus Christ as my Saviour, and have been baptised in the name of the Lord. Also I know that when I eat and drink during the Lord's Supper at my church I know that I am honouring the blood of Christ which cleanses me from all unrighteousness, and the body of Christ which has made me whole. So, in Biblical terms, I can't see how I could be excluded from participating in the Lord's Supper in any church, Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant.

So, in my opinion, it is not the Jesus of the Bible who does not consider me a true Christian, but the religious organisation that would prevent me from sharing in the Eucharist with all the others there. That would mean to me that the organisation does not consider me a true Christian according to their doctrinal basis. So there is a difference between their doctrinal belief and what the Bible says about me.

Actually there is a difference between your doctrine and what the bible says about salvation. And it is that difference that excludes you from the Eucharist.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

In case you aren't aware, quoting this exact verse suggests the Orthodox regard heterodox as dogs.

I guess that's the attitude that those people don't want the general people to know - that those who are not initiated into their particular religious system are "dogs". These "dogs" are not the lovey dovey dogs that we love and treasure in our western society, but the Middle Eastern dog that was seen as a filthy, lowest of the low, creature who as left to roam the streets eating garbage where they could find it.

 

[Chris V++]

So what did Jesus mean by that?

Woof woof.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So what did Jesus mean by that?

He meant that we should not share holy things with people who do not appreciate and value them. It is the same as when He said that we should not cast our pearls before swine.

 

[HTacianas]

He meant that we should not share holy things with people who do not appreciate and value them. It is the same as when He said that we should not cast our pearls before swine.

According to the Didache he meant do not allow an uninitiate to participate in the Eucharist.

Now, at least we are at a starting point.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Actually there is a difference between your doctrine and what the bible says about salvation. And it is that difference that excludes you from the Eucharist.

Paul told the Philippian jailor, when asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?", "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptised, and you will be saved". So, I believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and I have been baptised, so I am saved according to Paul's definition. How does that differ from the Orthodox position which would exclude me from the Eucharist?

I can answer that question actually: I have to be initiated by the appropriate ritual into the Orthodox "club" in the same way as I would have to go through the appropriate ritual to become a true Freemason. Same thing.