United Universists

[challenger]

http://universist.org/

Universism is the freethought religious philosophy intended to unite people who have found affinity with atheism, deism, agnosticism, pantheism, transcendentalism and other rational perspectives

Saw this and thought of you

The 5 principles of universism
I. The most important thing is the search for meaning and purpose, as in relationships and love, understanding and knowledge, experiences and emotions, or elsewhere.
II. There is no absolute Truth that applies to all people; ultimate knowledge of the nature of existence cannot be communicated, it can only be reasoned or experienced personally. The natural state of most individuals is uncertainty, motivating curiosity, openmindedness and appreciation for the experiences and thought of other beings.
III. Morality is relative to individual circumstances and relationships. Any action's ultimate rightness or wrongness can only be determined by those involved in the action. Good and Evil are ideas that can be useful, but are inaccurate if used to describe the nature of the universe.

IV. Social structures such as governments and institutions are useful insofar as they help individuals to flourish - that is, become and remain healthy, happy and able to work toward their goals that do not interfere with the rights of other individuals to work toward their goals.

V. All life is free in the universe, limited in potential only by the physical laws of nature.

Don't know if there are any other universists on this site, I haven't seen anyone mention it. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum btw, but philosophy seemed the most appropriate forum here.

 

[Lavis Knight]

It already seems like they have built their own dogma with those assumptions.

 

[challenger]

It already seems like they have built their own dogma with those assumptions.

What's dogmatic about it? They're five things that define universism, if you agree with them then you're a universist, that's all it means.

 

[Lavis Knight]

Well they say that there is no absolute truth that applies to all people, yet that truth and the statements that occur after them are in essence absolute truths. ^^;;

I don't mean to offend.

 

[challenger]

Well they say that there is no absolute truth that applies to all people, yet that truth and the statements that occur after them are in essence absolute truths. ^^;;

I don't mean to offend.

I'm not offended, I'm happy to discuss my beliefs.

The 5 principles are not meant to be absolute truths, merely a definition of the bare bones of universism, they are not meant to apply to everyone.

 

[Lavis Knight]

I do appreciate though that there is a place for Agnostics, Atheists, Deists and Free thinkers who abide to such principles.. i find it very hard to find a place myself.

 

[Avatar]

Quelle surprise challenger! I'm also from Universism. I didn't know anyone else was here, I'm pretty new though. What do you call yourself at UU? My biggest surprise here, and the reason I post, is that these folks don't seem to be rabid fanatics, but rather people with much compassion, intelligence and common sense. Good folks in other words.

 

[funyun]

http://universist.org/
Saw this and thought of you

Don't know if there are any other universists on this site, I haven't seen anyone mention it. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum btw, but philosophy seemed the most appropriate forum here.

I liked it up until I got to the rules. I hate when ppl take a good thing and attach principles and say "these r things that make u a <insert whatever>".

The 5 principles of universism
I. The most important thing is the search for meaning and purpose, as in relationships and love, understanding and knowledge, experiences and emotions, or elsewhere.

This is the one I have a major problem with, not cuz i disagree with it, but because I see it as really constraining. I'm not sure how to explain it. I guess all I can say is I don't like when groups say anything to the extent of "the most important things are" and then start a list of really important things. Like I said, makes me feel constrained.

II. There is no absolute Truth that applies to all people; ultimate knowledge of the nature of existence cannot be communicated, it can only be reasoned or experienced personally. The natural state of most individuals is uncertainty, motivating curiosity, openmindedness and appreciation for the experiences and thought of other beings.

I'm not sure what they mean by "truth". This one is constraining also. As far as things like mathematics go, there is absolute truth (at least until we get into things like "what is perception/what is reality, etc). But there is no such thing as absolute truth when it comes to religion, spirituality, and other, less concrete concepts.

III. Morality is relative to individual circumstances and relationships. Any action's ultimate rightness or wrongness can only be determined by those involved in the action. Good and Evil are ideas that can be useful, but are inaccurate if used to describe the nature of the universe.

I pretty much agree 100%. I'm not sure about this "involved in the action" business, but whatever.

IV. Social structures such as governments and institutions are useful insofar as they help individuals to flourish - that is, become and remain healthy, happy and able to work toward their goals that do not interfere with the rights of other individuals to work toward their goals.

I think social structures and governments r "useful insofar as they help individulas to flourish", and I think government is necessary at this point in time, but I am also an anarchist, and I believe government will not always be necessary. I'd say I agree with this.

V. All life is free in the universe, limited in potential only by the physical laws of nature.

I wish they would define "free". I don't disagree, I just think it's kinda vague.

Overall, I think I could be considered a Universist. Though I may have some issues with the fine print of the first two.

 

[Lavis Knight]

I certainly don't agree with your unforgiving TOS

1| Immediately ban/delete irate theists (Christians and other people of faith) and others who vehemently disagree with what we are doing. We sometimes even delete their posts.

2| Allow freethinkers who disagree with Universism to poke around, ask questions, and decide if they really do disagree. If they do, we ask them to leave.

3| There are occasionally polite theists. They are also welcome to poke around, ask questions, chat... but when it becomes clear to them that they are not Universist, we also ask them to leave.

I don't know if i'll ever find a place.

 

[challenger]

Quelle surprise challenger! I'm also from Universism. I didn't know anyone else was here, I'm pretty new though. What do you call yourself at UU? My biggest surprise here, and the reason I post, is that these folks don't seem to be rabid fanatics, but rather people with much compassion, intelligence and common sense. Good folks in other words.

I'm In Bloom on UU, nice to see I'm not totally alone here

 

[challenger]

I certainly don't agree with your unforgiving TOS

There are good reasons for it, Universism is a small movement, and the admin feels it would be damaging to allow the main Universist forum to be swamped by people who disagree, we do have a sister forum though, KIR, where the TOS might be a bit more accomadating (sp?), but I don't really know much about KIR because I don't post there myself.

 

[challenger]

I liked it up until I got to the rules. I hate when ppl take a good thing and attach principles and say "these r things that make u a <insert whatever>".

The 5 principles of universism
I. The most important thing is the search for meaning and purpose, as in relationships and love, understanding and knowledge, experiences and emotions, or elsewhere.

This is the one I have a major problem with, not cuz i disagree with it, but because I see it as really constraining. I'm not sure how to explain it. I guess all I can say is I don't like when groups say anything to the extent of "the most important things are" and then start a list of really important things. Like I said, makes me feel constrained.

II. There is no absolute Truth that applies to all people; ultimate knowledge of the nature of existence cannot be communicated, it can only be reasoned or experienced personally. The natural state of most individuals is uncertainty, motivating curiosity, openmindedness and appreciation for the experiences and thought of other beings.

I'm not sure what they mean by "truth". This one is constraining also. As far as things like mathematics go, there is absolute truth (at least until we get into things like "what is perception/what is reality, etc). But there is no such thing as absolute truth when it comes to religion, spirituality, and other, less concrete concepts.

III. Morality is relative to individual circumstances and relationships. Any action's ultimate rightness or wrongness can only be determined by those involved in the action. Good and Evil are ideas that can be useful, but are inaccurate if used to describe the nature of the universe.

I pretty much agree 100%. I'm not sure about this "involved in the action" business, but whatever.

IV. Social structures such as governments and institutions are useful insofar as they help individuals to flourish - that is, become and remain healthy, happy and able to work toward their goals that do not interfere with the rights of other individuals to work toward their goals.

I think social structures and governments r "useful insofar as they help individulas to flourish", and I think government is necessary at this point in time, but I am also an anarchist, and I believe government will not always be necessary. I'd say I agree with this.

V. All life is free in the universe, limited in potential only by the physical laws of nature.

I wish they would define "free". I don't disagree, I just think it's kinda vague.

Overall, I think I could be considered a Universist. Though I may have some issues with the fine print of the first two.

Hello funyun

I'm an anarchist myself, and personally, I would argue that if you take 4 to its extreme you could argue that since governments don't allow the individual to flourish, then you can argue against them and still be consistent with the principle.

"Absolute truth" in this case really refers to absolute moral truth.

 

[funyun]

Hello funyun

I'm an anarchist myself, and personally, I would argue that if you take 4 to its extreme you could argue that since governments don't allow the individual to flourish, then you can argue against them and still be consistent with the principle.

I guess that works. It's also nice to talk to a fellow anarchist. And rare.

"Absolute truth" in this case really refers to absolute moral truth.

Ah ok, then I agree with what they r saying, tho I would change "all people" to "the universe".