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<blockquote data-quote="Gxg (G²)" data-source="post: 61448886" data-attributes="member: 238335"><p>When you show historically that Micah 4 was ever in regards to the U.S, then you'll have dealt with it properly. The context of Micah 4 was never about beating other nations into submission like the U.S does with other nations today or the British Empire did (as well as the Roman Empire which practiced assimilation and had many proud to be Roman since they could keep their culture). The nation of Israel was distinctly different in that they were givern the LAWS/Covenant fo the Lord and had certain things promised to them exclusively. The U.S does not qualify for that nor has it ever...at the most basic level being that it's not a THEOCRACY as the OT Israel was in its direct leadership from the Lord (and all of the systems set up to support things such as the priesthood, sacrifical system, and taking care of the poor/destitute in the Land--all of that applying for those living IN THE LAND of Israel....and for more on that issue, one can go either<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7687457-5/" target="_blank"> here </a>or #<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7561389-13/#post57590397" target="_blank"><strong>130</strong></a>, <a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7686844-5/#post61381948" target="_blank">here</a>,<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7644318-3/" target="_blank"> here </a>, #<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7644318-2/#post60128681" target="_blank"><strong>12</strong></a>, #<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7644318-2/#post60128677" target="_blank"><strong>11</strong></a> , #<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7644318/#post60127535" target="_blank"><strong>4</strong></a> #<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7644318/#post60128671" target="_blank"><strong>10</strong></a> and #<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7644318-2/#post60129877" target="_blank"><strong>17</strong></a> / <a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7645734-9/#post60200881" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7624915/" target="_blank">here </a>/<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7651153-9/" target="_blank">here</a>/<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7651153-12/" target="_blank">here </a>and here in #<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7662542-5/#post60770034" target="_blank"><strong>46</strong></a> ).</p><p> </p><p>Israel is Israel and trying to read the U.S will never be applicable seeing where the U.S already does too many things AGAINST it/what God called Israel to be. </p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><p style="margin-left: 20px"><a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Micah%204:9-13&version=NIV#en-NIV-22630" target="_blank">Micah 4:9</a></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Why do you now cry aloud&#8212;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">have you no king[<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Micah%204:9-13&version=NIV#fen-NIV-22630a" target="_blank">a</a>]?</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Has your ruler[<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Micah%204:9-13&version=NIV#fen-NIV-22630b" target="_blank">b</a>] perished,</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">that pain seizes you like that of a woman in labor?</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">10 Writhe in agony, Daughter Zion,</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">like a woman in labor,</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">for now you must leave the city</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">to camp in the open field.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">You will go to Babylon;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">there you will be rescued.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">There the Lord will redeem you</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">out of the hand of your enemies.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">11 But now many nations</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">are gathered against you.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">They say, &#8220;Let her be defiled,</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">let our eyes gloat over Zion!&#8221;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">12 But they do not know</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">the thoughts of the Lord;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">they do not understand his plan,</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">that he has gathered them like sheaves to the threshing floor.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">13 &#8220;Rise and thresh, Daughter Zion,</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">for I will give you horns of iron;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">I will give you hooves of bronze,</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">and you will break to pieces many nations.&#8221;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">You will devote their ill-gotten gains to the Lord,</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">their wealth to the Lord of all the earth.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> </p><p>Micah in Micah 4:9-13 predicted the end of the kings. This was a drastic statement to the people of Judah, who thought that their kingdom would last forever (and the prophet Jeremiah noted it later in Jeremiah 8:19 and Jeremiah 30:6). Micah also said that Bablylon would destory the land of Judah and carry away its king, but after a while God would help his people return to their land. This all happened just as Micah prophesied and these events are recorded in II Chronicles 36:9-23 and Ezra 1:1-2.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Concerning Micah 4:13, it was within the context of threshing..and thresing was done in one of two ways: (1) by beating the sheaves with a rod or flail or (2) by trampling them under the feet of oxen that pulled a wooden shed around the threshing floor (Isaiah 28:27). Threshing was done out-of-doors on a hard surface of gthe ground and was also used to figuratively describe God's judgement (Isaiah 21:10, Isaiah 41:15, I Corinthians 9:10). When walking right with the Lord, the future strength of Israel could not be matched...just as it was when the people of the Lord often saw their enemies taken out because they followed him FULLY and at ALL POINTS. Not selectively---counter to what the U.S and the other nations of our days do. They often had many deliverances that were miraculous and that was because the Lord loved His people </p><p> </p><p>As Barnes Notes said best:</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><p style="margin-left: 20px"><a href="http://barnes.biblecommenter.com/micah/4.htm" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Garamond'"><span style="font-size: 15px">Barnes' Notes on the Bible</span></span></a></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Garamond'"><span style="font-size: 15px">Arise - (It may be,) from the dust in which they were lying, "I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass." Threshing in the East is partly with oxen, partly with wheels of iron, or with planks set with sharp flints on an open place made hard to this end. The prophet joins another image, with this and represents Judah as being by God endued with strength, first as with a "horn of iron" </span></span><a href="http://bible.cc/1_kings/22-11.htm" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Garamond'"><span style="font-size: 15px">1 Kings 22:11</span></span></a><span style="font-family: 'Garamond'"><span style="font-size: 15px"> to cast the enemy to the ground, and then with "hoofs of brass," wherewith to trample them to dust, as the stubble and chaff. "And I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord," that is, to Myself; the Lord gathered them into the floor by His Providence; the Lord gave His people strength to subdue them; and now, in His own Person, He says, I will complete My own work. </span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Garamond'"><span style="font-size: 15px">The very image of the "threshing" implies that this is no mere destruction. </span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><p style="margin-left: 20px"><a href="http://clarke.biblecommenter.com/micah/4.htm" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Clarke's Commentary on the Bible</span></span></a></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'">Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion - This refers to the subject of the preceding verse. When God shall have gathered together all thy enemies, as into the threshing-floor, he will give thee commission and power to get a complete victory over them, and reduce them to servitude. And that thou mayest be able to do this, he will be on thy side as a powerful helper; here signified by the metaphors, iron horns, and brazen hoofs. Thou shalt have power, authority, and unconquerable strength; for thine enemies shall be no more against thee than the corn against oxen shod with brass, or a puny animal against the horn of a fierce bull tipped with iron. </span><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'">I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord - What they have taken from thee in the way of spoil shall be restored; and again consecrated unto the service of him who will show himself to be the Lord, the Supreme Governor of the whole earth. Was not this prediction fulfilled when Cyrus gave the Jews permission to return to their own land, and gave them back the sacred vessels of the temple which Nebuchadnezzar had carried away? The Maccabees and their successors recovered much of the booty of which the neighboring nations had deprived the Jews; and the treasure taken was devoted to Jehovah. The first verse of the next chapter should conclude this.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> </p> </p> </p><p>Context...which you're again missing in favor of making it up as you go along.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>By your logic, you are essentially for Manifest Destiny theology and have no issue with the attrocities done in the name of the U.S due to minimizing the impact of them and saying that it's all good so long as some good came out of it. Pointing out the evils done by one nation or other nations/how they were stopped is a logical fallacy, as it ignores the evils done SIMUNTANEOUSLY in the U.S that it was called out for being hypocritical on. We can start with Hitler, which the U.S often takes pride in removing. It is FACT that the U.S. was already mistreating their Jewish populations at the same time as the Holocaust going on (leading many Jews to blend in/hide their Jewish ancestry since they had the benefit of simply being apart of white society), it was not something for many Hebrew Israelites where mistreatment was a real fear. To them, Jews (who they deemed to be blacks) already faced genocide and persecution in the U.S for centuries without anyone really speaking up on it-</p><p> </p><p>Something else that comes to mind is that it was the case that the U.S ONLY got involved in the War after being provoked (finding out about the death camps near the end, if not after, WWII). During World War II, America was goaded into fighting by Japan...but none <strong><span style="color: #ff0000">of</span></strong> the Allies was fighting "for the liberation <strong><span style="color: #ff0000">of</span></strong> the Jews", and none <strong><span style="color: #ff0000">of</span></strong> the Allies did anything aimed at slowing down, disrupting or halting the Holocaust. And being a Jew in the U.S. was often shunned--as well as for minorities in general. For more info, one can go to <span style="color: green"><u><em><a href="http://www.fathom.com/course/21701756/session4.html" target="_blank">"</a></em></u></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><a href="http://www.fathom.com/course/21701756/session4.html" target="_blank"><strong><u><em><span style="color: darkgreen">The Revelation <span style="color: #ff0000">of</span> the Death Camps and Zionism</span> </em></u>(</strong> <strong>)"</strong></a></span><strong>.</strong> </span>Obviously, with the Allied victory over Nazi Germany, the Holocaust came to an end, but that wasn't why the Allies fought..and when the Holocaust was revealed, people then gave sympathies. Yet for many, the bad history prior to that is forgotten. </p><p> </p><p>Many Jews called out the U.S when it finally intervened against Germany due to how it was attacked---claiming to love the Jewish people when the reality was that it often discriminated against Jews and many other minority groups. Many noted where the U.S was simultaneously allowing systematic hatred/terrorism toward blacks for centuries even during the war (and that also includes the genocide of Native Americans)..not to mention where the U.S did the SAME things as Germany when it came to sterilization/experimentation of blacks (Tuskagee Project), the advocation of the Negro Project which advocated extermination of blacks in the U.S by Margret Sanger (more discussed here in #<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7632553-28/#post59968200" target="_blank"><strong>279</strong></a>/ #<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7487581/#post55384043" target="_blank"><strong>8</strong></a>, #<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/t7487581-2/#post55395311" target="_blank"><strong>13</strong></a> ), the disabled/homeless (As it concerns experiments done in the mental institutions), and other groups. The world was NOT a better place when it came to what happened in Vietnam and the Hmmong. It was not a better place when it came to its radical extermination of many Islanders in the Pacific...or people in Panama. </p><p> </p><p>It's not a better place in the world when it comes to the Consumeristic culture SUPPORTED by the U.S where we import our junk to other nations (such as Ghana and China concerning E-Waste/Electronic Waste) nor is the world a better place when it comes to the ways we steal the water supplies of others/pollute their environments for our products...nor is it a better place when we involved ourselves in Black market activity that harms others (human trafficking being the biggest issue and the U.S LEADING THE WAY in that).</p><p> </p><p>It's dishonest trying to portray the world as a better place when looking at the good the U.S does while willfully ignoring much of the bad that it has also done in the process consistently. ..or minimizing the ways OTHER NATIONS helped to make the world a better place as well, be it Britain or Austraila and other places. That goes back to the self-centered view that America is what everyone must place their hope in..and it's not Biblical.</p><p> </p><p>As you have failed multiple times at addressing the obvious in regards to context and history--alongside supporting ideology that has long been debunked by many Biblical scholars, sorry--but it's obvious you make it up as you go along rather than really understanding Judaic principles at interpreting history/prophecy. Whether or not you're willing (or capable) of doing sound research is up for you to decide...but that is your choice. </p><p> </p><p>That you include Mormons into the mix of Christianity shows another lack of understanding regarding what the scriptures note. As it stands, what matters is understanding what the 1st century Judeao Christian view noted and realizing where other groups got it WAY off and others closer than most. If ignoring basic concepts that were well understood in Jewish culture or ignoring where certain views were developed SOLELY for the sake of ethnic expansion at the cost of others (as it concerns Manifest Destinty), you don't know how to deal with prophecy. Even Eastern Orthodoxy which you bring up doesn't support the concept of Manifest Destiny or seeing the U.S as the New Israel/Daughter of Zion---and thus, the argument you raise is pointless. A red herring/false scenario to be exact.</p><p> </p><p>For no one was debating diversity in Christianity nor is it the case that having diversity in the world of Christ (i.e. Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, etc) automatically means all interpretations are equal or that the view you're advocating for Manifest Destiny/"American is Israel in Micah 4-5" is a valid interpretation not to be questioned</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gxg (G²), post: 61448886, member: 238335"] When you show historically that Micah 4 was ever in regards to the U.S, then you'll have dealt with it properly. The context of Micah 4 was never about beating other nations into submission like the U.S does with other nations today or the British Empire did (as well as the Roman Empire which practiced assimilation and had many proud to be Roman since they could keep their culture). The nation of Israel was distinctly different in that they were givern the LAWS/Covenant fo the Lord and had certain things promised to them exclusively. The U.S does not qualify for that nor has it ever...at the most basic level being that it's not a THEOCRACY as the OT Israel was in its direct leadership from the Lord (and all of the systems set up to support things such as the priesthood, sacrifical system, and taking care of the poor/destitute in the Land--all of that applying for those living IN THE LAND of Israel....and for more on that issue, one can go either[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7687457-5/"] here [/URL]or #[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7561389-13/#post57590397"][B]130[/B][/URL], [URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7686844-5/#post61381948"]here[/URL],[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7644318-3/"] here [/URL], #[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7644318-2/#post60128681"][B]12[/B][/URL], #[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7644318-2/#post60128677"][B]11[/B][/URL] , #[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7644318/#post60127535"][B]4[/B][/URL] #[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7644318/#post60128671"][B]10[/B][/URL] and #[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7644318-2/#post60129877"][B]17[/B][/URL] / [URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7645734-9/#post60200881"]here[/URL] and [URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7624915/"]here [/URL]/[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7651153-9/"]here[/URL]/[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7651153-12/"]here [/URL]and here in #[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7662542-5/#post60770034"][B]46[/B][/URL] ). Israel is Israel and trying to read the U.S will never be applicable seeing where the U.S already does too many things AGAINST it/what God called Israel to be. [INDENT][INDENT][URL="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Micah%204:9-13&version=NIV#en-NIV-22630"]Micah 4:9[/URL] Why do you now cry aloud— have you no king[[URL="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Micah%204:9-13&version=NIV#fen-NIV-22630a"]a[/URL]]? Has your ruler[[URL="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Micah%204:9-13&version=NIV#fen-NIV-22630b"]b[/URL]] perished, that pain seizes you like that of a woman in labor? 10 Writhe in agony, Daughter Zion, like a woman in labor, for now you must leave the city to camp in the open field. You will go to Babylon; there you will be rescued. There the Lord will redeem you out of the hand of your enemies. 11 But now many nations are gathered against you. They say, “Let her be defiled, let our eyes gloat over Zion!” 12 But they do not know the thoughts of the Lord; they do not understand his plan, that he has gathered them like sheaves to the threshing floor. 13 “Rise and thresh, Daughter Zion, for I will give you horns of iron; I will give you hooves of bronze, and you will break to pieces many nations.” You will devote their ill-gotten gains to the Lord, their wealth to the Lord of all the earth. [/INDENT][/INDENT]Micah in Micah 4:9-13 predicted the end of the kings. This was a drastic statement to the people of Judah, who thought that their kingdom would last forever (and the prophet Jeremiah noted it later in Jeremiah 8:19 and Jeremiah 30:6). Micah also said that Bablylon would destory the land of Judah and carry away its king, but after a while God would help his people return to their land. This all happened just as Micah prophesied and these events are recorded in II Chronicles 36:9-23 and Ezra 1:1-2. Concerning Micah 4:13, it was within the context of threshing..and thresing was done in one of two ways: (1) by beating the sheaves with a rod or flail or (2) by trampling them under the feet of oxen that pulled a wooden shed around the threshing floor (Isaiah 28:27). Threshing was done out-of-doors on a hard surface of gthe ground and was also used to figuratively describe God's judgement (Isaiah 21:10, Isaiah 41:15, I Corinthians 9:10). When walking right with the Lord, the future strength of Israel could not be matched...just as it was when the people of the Lord often saw their enemies taken out because they followed him FULLY and at ALL POINTS. Not selectively---counter to what the U.S and the other nations of our days do. They often had many deliverances that were miraculous and that was because the Lord loved His people As Barnes Notes said best: [INDENT][INDENT][URL="http://barnes.biblecommenter.com/micah/4.htm"][FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]Barnes' Notes on the Bible[/SIZE][/FONT][/URL] [FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]Arise - (It may be,) from the dust in which they were lying, "I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass." Threshing in the East is partly with oxen, partly with wheels of iron, or with planks set with sharp flints on an open place made hard to this end. The prophet joins another image, with this and represents Judah as being by God endued with strength, first as with a "horn of iron" [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://bible.cc/1_kings/22-11.htm"][FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]1 Kings 22:11[/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4] to cast the enemy to the ground, and then with "hoofs of brass," wherewith to trample them to dust, as the stubble and chaff. "And I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord," that is, to Myself; the Lord gathered them into the floor by His Providence; the Lord gave His people strength to subdue them; and now, in His own Person, He says, I will complete My own work. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]The very image of the "threshing" implies that this is no mere destruction. [/SIZE][/FONT] [INDENT][INDENT][URL="http://clarke.biblecommenter.com/micah/4.htm"][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Clarke's Commentary on the Bible[/SIZE][/FONT][/URL] [SIZE=3][FONT=Palatino Linotype]Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion - This refers to the subject of the preceding verse. When God shall have gathered together all thy enemies, as into the threshing-floor, he will give thee commission and power to get a complete victory over them, and reduce them to servitude. And that thou mayest be able to do this, he will be on thy side as a powerful helper; here signified by the metaphors, iron horns, and brazen hoofs. Thou shalt have power, authority, and unconquerable strength; for thine enemies shall be no more against thee than the corn against oxen shod with brass, or a puny animal against the horn of a fierce bull tipped with iron. [/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype]I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord - What they have taken from thee in the way of spoil shall be restored; and again consecrated unto the service of him who will show himself to be the Lord, the Supreme Governor of the whole earth. Was not this prediction fulfilled when Cyrus gave the Jews permission to return to their own land, and gave them back the sacred vessels of the temple which Nebuchadnezzar had carried away? The Maccabees and their successors recovered much of the booty of which the neighboring nations had deprived the Jews; and the treasure taken was devoted to Jehovah. The first verse of the next chapter should conclude this.[/FONT][/SIZE] [/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT]Context...which you're again missing in favor of making it up as you go along. By your logic, you are essentially for Manifest Destiny theology and have no issue with the attrocities done in the name of the U.S due to minimizing the impact of them and saying that it's all good so long as some good came out of it. Pointing out the evils done by one nation or other nations/how they were stopped is a logical fallacy, as it ignores the evils done SIMUNTANEOUSLY in the U.S that it was called out for being hypocritical on. We can start with Hitler, which the U.S often takes pride in removing. It is FACT that the U.S. was already mistreating their Jewish populations at the same time as the Holocaust going on (leading many Jews to blend in/hide their Jewish ancestry since they had the benefit of simply being apart of white society), it was not something for many Hebrew Israelites where mistreatment was a real fear. To them, Jews (who they deemed to be blacks) already faced genocide and persecution in the U.S for centuries without anyone really speaking up on it- Something else that comes to mind is that it was the case that the U.S ONLY got involved in the War after being provoked (finding out about the death camps near the end, if not after, WWII). During World War II, America was goaded into fighting by Japan...but none [B][COLOR=#ff0000]of[/COLOR][/B] the Allies was fighting "for the liberation [B][COLOR=#ff0000]of[/COLOR][/B] the Jews", and none [B][COLOR=#ff0000]of[/COLOR][/B] the Allies did anything aimed at slowing down, disrupting or halting the Holocaust. And being a Jew in the U.S. was often shunned--as well as for minorities in general. For more info, one can go to [COLOR=green][U][I][URL="http://www.fathom.com/course/21701756/session4.html"]"[/URL][/I][/U][/COLOR][FONT=Arial][FONT=Verdana][URL="http://www.fathom.com/course/21701756/session4.html"][B][U][I][COLOR=darkgreen]The Revelation [COLOR=#ff0000]of[/COLOR] the Death Camps and Zionism[/COLOR] [/I][/U]([/B] [B])"[/B][/URL][/FONT][B].[/B] [/FONT]Obviously, with the Allied victory over Nazi Germany, the Holocaust came to an end, but that wasn't why the Allies fought..and when the Holocaust was revealed, people then gave sympathies. Yet for many, the bad history prior to that is forgotten. Many Jews called out the U.S when it finally intervened against Germany due to how it was attacked---claiming to love the Jewish people when the reality was that it often discriminated against Jews and many other minority groups. Many noted where the U.S was simultaneously allowing systematic hatred/terrorism toward blacks for centuries even during the war (and that also includes the genocide of Native Americans)..not to mention where the U.S did the SAME things as Germany when it came to sterilization/experimentation of blacks (Tuskagee Project), the advocation of the Negro Project which advocated extermination of blacks in the U.S by Margret Sanger (more discussed here in #[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7632553-28/#post59968200"][B]279[/B][/URL]/ #[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7487581/#post55384043"][B]8[/B][/URL], #[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7487581-2/#post55395311"][B]13[/B][/URL] ), the disabled/homeless (As it concerns experiments done in the mental institutions), and other groups. The world was NOT a better place when it came to what happened in Vietnam and the Hmmong. It was not a better place when it came to its radical extermination of many Islanders in the Pacific...or people in Panama. It's not a better place in the world when it comes to the Consumeristic culture SUPPORTED by the U.S where we import our junk to other nations (such as Ghana and China concerning E-Waste/Electronic Waste) nor is the world a better place when it comes to the ways we steal the water supplies of others/pollute their environments for our products...nor is it a better place when we involved ourselves in Black market activity that harms others (human trafficking being the biggest issue and the U.S LEADING THE WAY in that). It's dishonest trying to portray the world as a better place when looking at the good the U.S does while willfully ignoring much of the bad that it has also done in the process consistently. ..or minimizing the ways OTHER NATIONS helped to make the world a better place as well, be it Britain or Austraila and other places. That goes back to the self-centered view that America is what everyone must place their hope in..and it's not Biblical. As you have failed multiple times at addressing the obvious in regards to context and history--alongside supporting ideology that has long been debunked by many Biblical scholars, sorry--but it's obvious you make it up as you go along rather than really understanding Judaic principles at interpreting history/prophecy. Whether or not you're willing (or capable) of doing sound research is up for you to decide...but that is your choice. That you include Mormons into the mix of Christianity shows another lack of understanding regarding what the scriptures note. As it stands, what matters is understanding what the 1st century Judeao Christian view noted and realizing where other groups got it WAY off and others closer than most. If ignoring basic concepts that were well understood in Jewish culture or ignoring where certain views were developed SOLELY for the sake of ethnic expansion at the cost of others (as it concerns Manifest Destinty), you don't know how to deal with prophecy. Even Eastern Orthodoxy which you bring up doesn't support the concept of Manifest Destiny or seeing the U.S as the New Israel/Daughter of Zion---and thus, the argument you raise is pointless. A red herring/false scenario to be exact. For no one was debating diversity in Christianity nor is it the case that having diversity in the world of Christ (i.e. Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, etc) automatically means all interpretations are equal or that the view you're advocating for Manifest Destiny/"American is Israel in Micah 4-5" is a valid interpretation not to be questioned [/QUOTE]
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