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<blockquote data-quote="Gxg (G²)" data-source="post: 61448048" data-attributes="member: 238335"><p>Seeing that Micah was dealing specifically with views relevant for Jewish believers in the Messiah, it's very precarious trying to take the text/read back into it the coutry o fthe U.S since it never had it in mind and there was more said besides that when seeing the context. There's a reason why it was often critiqued and condemned whenever people in the U.S claimed that the USA was the "New Israel/Zion" even though it was far from being remotely concerned or connected with the Jewish/Hebraic worldview of the scriptures and often mistreated Jews.</p><p>The "last days" issue is indeed a subject of debate that has lasted for a long time. However, the U.S has never been a "Chrisitan" culture..although what it has had are Christian principles. As it stands, many other empires had the same dynamics as it concerns using Christian principles and yet being far from Christian/Christ like and related to Christ while uniting many groups together. The British Empire comes immediately to mind, as it was once said that the sun never sets on it due to how it literally circled the entire known world and did colonization practically everywhere when it came to assimilating groups into its own.</p><p> </p><p>The logic used to make the U.S a "daughter of Zion" also applies to every other imperialistic, expansionist and dominant empire on the planet that has ever used the name of Christ at the forefront.</p><p> </p><p>There was a good review on the issue elsewhere in an excellent article entitled <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=Monumental+Myth%3A+&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdaviddflowers.com%2F2012%2F03%2F24%2Fmonumental-myth%2F&ei=MwVhUO3gNoXi8gTahYF4&usg=AFQjCNG2ZgHpPUsibBOzA5faqovK4WaOuA" target="_blank"><span style="color: #1122cc">Monumental Myth « The Centrality and Supremacy of Jesus Christ</span></a>..one of my dear brothers in Christ who pointed out the ways that people often have no clue what it means to be a "Christian NAtion" and where the U.S was often divorced from it. In his words:</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">I would like to present my case that the founding fathers were not seeking to establish a Christian nation. This is most <em>clearly</em> evidenced by an absence of <em>any</em> reference to Jesus in the founding documents, and the </span></span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Treaty of Tripoli</span></span></a><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">, which sets forth that the U.S. was not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Were some of the early leaders Christian? Well, sure. They were white werent they? There wasnt much else those days for white Westerners. It can hardly be denied that some of them were simply nominal Christianscarrying on their religion like a family tradition. Thanks to Constantine in the 4th century, Europe had considered itself Christian for about 1400 hundred yearseven during the Crusades, Inquisitions, and the drowning of Anabaptists. [Insert sarcasm now] So yeah, they were Christian alright every single one of them.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Deism</span></span></a><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> was the new way to be fashionable as a Westerner during the Enlightenment of the 17th and 18th centuries. Deism holds a belief in a Creator or natures God who rarely intervenes in human affairs, though he might show up to bless nationalistic endeavors. Deism was a growing religious philosophy that believed that miracles would violate nature (hence, supernatural). Therefore, deists believed that miracles are not possible. They also rejected divine revelation. Deists believed that the Bible should merely be used to further lawful societies and to encourage some level of morality within the culture.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Im not going to discuss each founding father here, but I should mention a few key fathers. George Washington was a freemason and a deist. He wouldnt take communion with his wife. We have no correspondence of him mentioning Jesus or faith in Christ. John Adams spoke harshly at times about Christianity and religion in general in his private correspondence. He was a Christian </span></span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Unitarian</span></span></a><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> that believed the church service was good for everyone because it promoted morals and values among the masses.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Yes, theres ample evidence that John Jay was an evangelical Christian. He actually tried to keep Catholics from holding office. And Patrick Henry was indeed vocal about his Christian faith as the leader of independence in Virginia. Nevertheless, we should not be so quick to conclude what we hope or wish to be true because of a few that were more vocal about their faith. Politicians do this all the time today. Do you still believe that Bill Clinton is a Southern Baptist?</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were deists. Franklin admits it in his writings, when he wasnt drunk or inventing something. Jefferson went so far to deny the divinity of Christ. He even created his own compilation of Jesus life from the gospels, which he entitled, </span></span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Morals_of_Jesus_of_Nazareth" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth.</span></span></a><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> He removed all evidence of the supernatural for a presentation of Jesus as a good moral teacher who is only to be admired, not worshipped. Rationalism at its finest!</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Lets be clear about this. The founding fathers sought to establish a nation free from big government, burdensome taxes, and state-sponsored religion. Religious nation? Ill grant that much. Christian nation? Huh, whats that? The major shapers of America concluded that its not even possible.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">What about the pilgrims you say? Oh, you mean the glorified stories of the Puritan fundamentalists? Well, you see, they wanted to enforce OT laws and create model theocratic cities. They are the ones who first hijacked the city on a hill language that Jesus used to describe the church. Instead, they used it to describe their new theocratic societies in America (e.g. Massachusetts Bay Colony led by William Bradford).</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">The Puritans claimed that America was the new Israel, the Indians were the savage Canaanites, and that God had given them the command to kill in his name. Many politicians throughout the years have used this sort of religious rhetoric to pander to fundamentalist evangelicals who still embrace the Christian nation myth. Its also great for demonizing your enemies and gaining support for the expansion of empire when God is on our side!</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Except for the fundamentalist Puritans, the rest of the colonialists acknowledged that the Christian state had been a total disaster in Europe. </span></span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Williams_(theologian)" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Roger Williams</span></span></a><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">, who began the first Baptist church on American soil, rejected the theocratic view of the Calvinistic pilgrims, detested the idea of a Christian nation, and argued for religious liberty and separation of church and statean idea that the </span></span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptists" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Anabaptists</span></span></a><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> had been ruthlessly persecuted for a century earlier. It finally caught on!</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">What you have here are Christian revisionists trying to build a case for an American Christian heritage based off of a glorified retelling of the pilgrim landing and the Puritan idea, singling out a few lone patriots who said some things about Jesus, the vague deistic references to God in founding documents, and the celebration of biblical virtues that even the atheists in that day advocated.</span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'">A person has to ignore the larger social, economic, political, and religious climate of early North American colonialism to advance the Christian nation myth.</span></strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">So, if you want to go back to the beginning and find a nation embracing biblical morals and values, you will find some of that for sure. But if your eyes are wide open, youre also going to find war, lies, greed, genocide, slavery, witch trials, and manifest destiny.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'Palatino Linotype'"><span style="font-size: 12px">If youre honest, you will, much like Pliny the Roman historian, seek to dig up the glorious past of Rome in order to inspire the citizens of the day to embrace moral reform, only to discover that the history of empire is a bloody shame. </span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> </p><p>If you claim "God Bless America" isn't accurate to say and note where the U.S has been often been unconcerned about God at the basics of treating your neighbor as you would treat yourself, it's seen as idolatry. But what's in the Book is in the Book. For more:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><u><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong><em>"</em></strong></span></u><a href="http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/reflections-on-an-idolatrous-bible/" target="_blank"><strong><em>Reflections on an Idolatrous Bible » Blog » Greg Boyd ..."</em></strong></a><a href="http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/reflections-on-an-idolatrous-bible/" target="_blank">( )</a></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><a href="http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/11/04/why-diverse-leadership-is-good-for-america/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #1122cc"><strong><em>Why Diverse Leadership is Good for America « A Better Covenant</em></strong></span></a></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: #008000"><em><u><strong>"<a href="http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/painted-idolatry-one-nation-under-god/" target="_blank">Painted Idolatry: One Nation Under God » Blog » Greg Boyd ... </a></strong></u></em></span><a href="http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/painted-idolatry-one-nation-under-god/" target="_blank">( )</a></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><u><span style="color: #008000"><strong><em>"</em></strong></span></u><a href="http://www.christianforums.com/www.gregboyd.org/popular/washing-osamas-feet/" target="_blank"><strong><em>Washing Osamas Feet - blog post 8/28/07 » Blog » Greg Boyd ..."</em></strong></a><a href="http://www.christianforums.com/www.gregboyd.org/popular/washing-osamas-feet/" target="_blank">( )</a></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><a href="http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/08/do-we-want-christian-morality-in-america-for-selfish-reasons/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #1122cc">Do We Want Christian Morality in America For Selfish Reasons? | a view of the woods <strong>...</strong></span></a></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><a href="http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/03/god-is-not-socialistic-capitalistic-democratic-nor-a-communist/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #1122cc">God Is Not Socialistic, Capitalistic, Democratic nor a Communist | a view of the woods<strong>...</strong></span></a></li> </ul><p></p><p>It could also be called ascribing to the text what isn't there and being selective with how it's applied.</p><p>Considering that there were specific. Micah was written during the era of II Kings (right around the time of Uzziah) and an era where prosperity and nationalism were a BIG deal since the nation of GOd was prospering and yet putting confidence in its military might as well as neglecting things of the Lord. And the prophet spoke actively against that.</p><p>There are many reasons to rally for Israel just as there are many reasons to be against it. Regardless, what is clear is that weaknesses of the U.S often cannot be avoided as it concerns consequences in choosing to either deny them or avoid them and act as if nothing will happen...and the example of what happened to Israel in the OT is proof of that when it came to enemies rising to come against that nation and it was simultaneously the case that the nations themselves were harmed while Israel was also harmed for never addressing their issues.</p><p>Dismissing the Lord never works out well. That said, it's sad enough to see how the U.S has been doing that in multiple ways since day one of the nation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gxg (G²), post: 61448048, member: 238335"] Seeing that Micah was dealing specifically with views relevant for Jewish believers in the Messiah, it's very precarious trying to take the text/read back into it the coutry o fthe U.S since it never had it in mind and there was more said besides that when seeing the context. There's a reason why it was often critiqued and condemned whenever people in the U.S claimed that the USA was the "New Israel/Zion" even though it was far from being remotely concerned or connected with the Jewish/Hebraic worldview of the scriptures and often mistreated Jews. The "last days" issue is indeed a subject of debate that has lasted for a long time. However, the U.S has never been a "Chrisitan" culture..although what it has had are Christian principles. As it stands, many other empires had the same dynamics as it concerns using Christian principles and yet being far from Christian/Christ like and related to Christ while uniting many groups together. The British Empire comes immediately to mind, as it was once said that the sun never sets on it due to how it literally circled the entire known world and did colonization practically everywhere when it came to assimilating groups into its own. The logic used to make the U.S a "daughter of Zion" also applies to every other imperialistic, expansionist and dominant empire on the planet that has ever used the name of Christ at the forefront. There was a good review on the issue elsewhere in an excellent article entitled [URL="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=Monumental+Myth%3A+&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdaviddflowers.com%2F2012%2F03%2F24%2Fmonumental-myth%2F&ei=MwVhUO3gNoXi8gTahYF4&usg=AFQjCNG2ZgHpPUsibBOzA5faqovK4WaOuA"][COLOR=#1122cc]Monumental Myth « The Centrality and Supremacy of Jesus Christ[/COLOR][/URL]..one of my dear brothers in Christ who pointed out the ways that people often have no clue what it means to be a "Christian NAtion" and where the U.S was often divorced from it. In his words: [INDENT][INDENT][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]I would like to present my case that the founding fathers were not seeking to establish a Christian nation. This is most [I]clearly[/I] evidenced by an absence of [I]any[/I] reference to Jesus in the founding documents, and the [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli"][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Treaty of Tripoli[/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3], which sets forth that the U.S. was not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Were some of the early leaders Christian? Well, sure. They were white werent they? There wasnt much else those days for white Westerners. It can hardly be denied that some of them were simply nominal Christianscarrying on their religion like a family tradition. Thanks to Constantine in the 4th century, Europe had considered itself Christian for about 1400 hundred yearseven during the Crusades, Inquisitions, and the drowning of Anabaptists. [Insert sarcasm now] So yeah, they were Christian alright every single one of them.[/SIZE][/FONT] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism"][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Deism[/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3] was the new way to be fashionable as a Westerner during the Enlightenment of the 17th and 18th centuries. Deism holds a belief in a Creator or natures God who rarely intervenes in human affairs, though he might show up to bless nationalistic endeavors. Deism was a growing religious philosophy that believed that miracles would violate nature (hence, supernatural). Therefore, deists believed that miracles are not possible. They also rejected divine revelation. Deists believed that the Bible should merely be used to further lawful societies and to encourage some level of morality within the culture.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Im not going to discuss each founding father here, but I should mention a few key fathers. George Washington was a freemason and a deist. He wouldnt take communion with his wife. We have no correspondence of him mentioning Jesus or faith in Christ. John Adams spoke harshly at times about Christianity and religion in general in his private correspondence. He was a Christian [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism"][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Unitarian[/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3] that believed the church service was good for everyone because it promoted morals and values among the masses.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Yes, theres ample evidence that John Jay was an evangelical Christian. He actually tried to keep Catholics from holding office. And Patrick Henry was indeed vocal about his Christian faith as the leader of independence in Virginia. Nevertheless, we should not be so quick to conclude what we hope or wish to be true because of a few that were more vocal about their faith. Politicians do this all the time today. Do you still believe that Bill Clinton is a Southern Baptist?[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were deists. Franklin admits it in his writings, when he wasnt drunk or inventing something. Jefferson went so far to deny the divinity of Christ. He even created his own compilation of Jesus life from the gospels, which he entitled, [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Morals_of_Jesus_of_Nazareth"][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth.[/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3] He removed all evidence of the supernatural for a presentation of Jesus as a good moral teacher who is only to be admired, not worshipped. Rationalism at its finest![/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Lets be clear about this. The founding fathers sought to establish a nation free from big government, burdensome taxes, and state-sponsored religion. Religious nation? Ill grant that much. Christian nation? Huh, whats that? The major shapers of America concluded that its not even possible.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]What about the pilgrims you say? Oh, you mean the glorified stories of the Puritan fundamentalists? Well, you see, they wanted to enforce OT laws and create model theocratic cities. They are the ones who first hijacked the city on a hill language that Jesus used to describe the church. Instead, they used it to describe their new theocratic societies in America (e.g. Massachusetts Bay Colony led by William Bradford).[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]The Puritans claimed that America was the new Israel, the Indians were the savage Canaanites, and that God had given them the command to kill in his name. Many politicians throughout the years have used this sort of religious rhetoric to pander to fundamentalist evangelicals who still embrace the Christian nation myth. Its also great for demonizing your enemies and gaining support for the expansion of empire when God is on our side![/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Except for the fundamentalist Puritans, the rest of the colonialists acknowledged that the Christian state had been a total disaster in Europe. [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Williams_(theologian)"][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Roger Williams[/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3], who began the first Baptist church on American soil, rejected the theocratic view of the Calvinistic pilgrims, detested the idea of a Christian nation, and argued for religious liberty and separation of church and statean idea that the [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptists"][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Anabaptists[/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3] had been ruthlessly persecuted for a century earlier. It finally caught on![/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]What you have here are Christian revisionists trying to build a case for an American Christian heritage based off of a glorified retelling of the pilgrim landing and the Puritan idea, singling out a few lone patriots who said some things about Jesus, the vague deistic references to God in founding documents, and the celebration of biblical virtues that even the atheists in that day advocated.[/SIZE][/FONT] [INDENT][B][FONT=Palatino Linotype]A person has to ignore the larger social, economic, political, and religious climate of early North American colonialism to advance the Christian nation myth.[/FONT][/B] [/INDENT][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]So, if you want to go back to the beginning and find a nation embracing biblical morals and values, you will find some of that for sure. But if your eyes are wide open, youre also going to find war, lies, greed, genocide, slavery, witch trials, and manifest destiny.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]If youre honest, you will, much like Pliny the Roman historian, seek to dig up the glorious past of Rome in order to inspire the citizens of the day to embrace moral reform, only to discover that the history of empire is a bloody shame. [/SIZE][/FONT] [/INDENT][/INDENT]If you claim "God Bless America" isn't accurate to say and note where the U.S has been often been unconcerned about God at the basics of treating your neighbor as you would treat yourself, it's seen as idolatry. But what's in the Book is in the Book. For more: [LIST] [*][U][COLOR=#0000ff][B][I]"[/I][/B][/COLOR][/U][URL="http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/reflections-on-an-idolatrous-bible/"][B][I]Reflections on an Idolatrous Bible » Blog » Greg Boyd ..."[/I][/B][/URL][URL="http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/reflections-on-an-idolatrous-bible/"]( )[/URL] [*][URL="http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/11/04/why-diverse-leadership-is-good-for-america/"][COLOR=#1122cc][B][I]Why Diverse Leadership is Good for America « A Better Covenant[/I][/B][/COLOR][/URL] [*][COLOR=#008000][I][U][B]"[URL="http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/painted-idolatry-one-nation-under-god/"]Painted Idolatry: One Nation Under God » Blog » Greg Boyd ... [/URL][/B][/U][/I][/COLOR][URL="http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/painted-idolatry-one-nation-under-god/"]( )[/URL] [*][U][COLOR=#008000][B][I]"[/I][/B][/COLOR][/U][URL="http://www.christianforums.com/www.gregboyd.org/popular/washing-osamas-feet/"][B][I]Washing Osamas Feet - blog post 8/28/07 » Blog » Greg Boyd ..."[/I][/B][/URL][URL="http://www.christianforums.com/www.gregboyd.org/popular/washing-osamas-feet/"]( )[/URL] [*][URL="http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/08/do-we-want-christian-morality-in-america-for-selfish-reasons/"][COLOR=#1122cc]Do We Want Christian Morality in America For Selfish Reasons? | a view of the woods [B]...[/B][/COLOR][/URL] [*][URL="http://www.lionelwoods.net/2010/03/god-is-not-socialistic-capitalistic-democratic-nor-a-communist/"][COLOR=#1122cc]God Is Not Socialistic, Capitalistic, Democratic nor a Communist | a view of the woods[B]...[/B][/COLOR][/URL] [/LIST] It could also be called ascribing to the text what isn't there and being selective with how it's applied. Considering that there were specific. Micah was written during the era of II Kings (right around the time of Uzziah) and an era where prosperity and nationalism were a BIG deal since the nation of GOd was prospering and yet putting confidence in its military might as well as neglecting things of the Lord. And the prophet spoke actively against that. There are many reasons to rally for Israel just as there are many reasons to be against it. Regardless, what is clear is that weaknesses of the U.S often cannot be avoided as it concerns consequences in choosing to either deny them or avoid them and act as if nothing will happen...and the example of what happened to Israel in the OT is proof of that when it came to enemies rising to come against that nation and it was simultaneously the case that the nations themselves were harmed while Israel was also harmed for never addressing their issues. Dismissing the Lord never works out well. That said, it's sad enough to see how the U.S has been doing that in multiple ways since day one of the nation. [/QUOTE]
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