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Are you willing to test this according to the scriptures with me?No, it's clear from Scripture that the angels in Heaven are not possessed of physical bodies...and neither are we after physical death.
Notice, "in Christ". It is Christ Jesus that lives. As a follower of God dies, they do not suffer the second death, but rather "sleep" "in Christ", as they are also called "the dead" "in Christ" to be resurrected in their respective resurrection.O.K., "alive in Christ" are "asleep" here,...
Sorry, no. This a discussion board, but you can freely promote Adventist theology on one of two "faith groups" boards with a lot of receptive folks.Are you willing to test this according to the scriptures with me?
I see. It shall be presented in any case to refute the lie of satan, which has the whole Christian world etherealizing satan, Heaven [3rd], the law of God, the throne of God and God Himself... into airy non-things and un-realities.Sorry, no. ...
I see. It shall be presented in any case to refute the lie of satan, which has the whole Christian world etherealizing satan, Heaven [3rd], the law of God, the throne of God and God Himself... into airy non-things and un-realities.
The invitation was genuine, but refused. Now since it was refused, I shall present it to all which may listen, I turn unto them.Hmmm. The fraternal "explore together" come-on seems to have been shelved now that I showed myself not to be as gullible as was hoped for.
I think you should ask yourself what the bible really teaches as opposed to what most people believe. The majority many times are wrong. What does the bible say about it. This is the question you need to ask and need to check out. Not what most people say. Of course, listen to the different views, but check the bible and see what it says.
My view is that firstly you need to understand life before you understand death. What did God do when he created man?
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Most people believe that man contains a living soul. That's not what it says here. It says man became and was made a living soul. The New Testament agrees with this.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
The Last Adam here is Jesus Christ. The passage explains that all of us now are made after Adam and bare the image of Adam so we are souls, but at the second coming of God we shall bare the image of the heavenly and have a different body, a quickening spirit.
The teaching among the majorty of Christians is that when you die you don't actually die, but you live on the spirit form. However, that is now what the bible says happens.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Job was constantly depressed and speaks about Death a lot because many times he thought he was near death. Here is Job speaking.
Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
Job 14:11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
These scriptures tells us that when a man dies his spirit, ghost or the breath of life goes back to God who gave it and his body decays and goes back to the earth. Job also tells us that man is not raised up from his sleep or death until the heavens be no more (this is the second coming of Jesus).
Listen to the prophet Daniel.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Compare this with John:
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
I'm more of a Jn.5:28 kind of Protestant, i.e., "all in their graves (tombs)" meaning all the bodily dead.
Please continue to read the context, for it says in the very next verse, "And shall come forth;..."...I'm more of a Jn.5:28 kind of Protestant, i.e., "all in their graves (tombs)" meaning all the bodily dead.
Actually the "daughters" of the "mother" are no longer in official protest anymore, they have come to terms...I don't think Protestants have a view on the after life. But generally, they are in agreement that the Catholic Church is to be protested.
Which is why they are called Protestants.
Please continue to read the context, for it says in the very next verse, "And shall come forth;..."
So, in that theology, there are those incorporeal man-shades descending from heaven, apparently not needing any sort of flesh before that moment, but now suddenly need it - in that theology weren't they already immortal, in heaven, what need of earth? What has this theology then for the wicked in their resurrection? Will it now be said that they 'ascend' from where they are erroneously ascribed to be and merge them also?
It does not say that they "come down", "come into", etc. The text clearly says "come forth", and from where the were, actually in their grave, dead "asleep". They are dust, in the grave itself.
Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Psalms 104:29
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return. Genesis 3:19
I don't think Protestants have a view on the after life. But generally, they are in agreement that the Catholic Church is to be protested.
Which is why they are called Protestants.
I thought that was why they were called protestants. Because they protest the papacy. They are rebellious Catholics aren't they?
Why are they called protestants?
ohIn 1529, a dozen years after Luther began his efforts to reform the church of his time, the German government announced a new policy concerning which churches would have legal recognition. The Lutherans protested that the deal cheated them and favored the Catholics. That is what gave them the nickname.
It had nothing at all to do with protesting the Catholic Church itself or Catholic doctrines.
This has been explained here a number of times before, which is why I didn't go into it right away, but of course there's no reason that you or others would necessarily have had the opportunity to read those posts.
Not desiring at all to be rude, may I ask, what is your primary language?Excellent work! Jn.5:29, "and shall come out...." Grammatically, and contextually "all," thus coming out in one moment, shall appear as two classes: "they that did the good things" - "they that did practice the worthless things." Bodies do snooze, souls are wide awake somewhere. Note also the difference where Mr. Luther was amill. as myself and your premil., loosely speaking, i.e., historist premillennial view most Adventist agree to.
Mr. Luther did the best he could with what he what confronted with in the same way, insignificant me, does with the Lutheran works, including graduating from a Lutheran Seminary School long ago which eventually dumped most into the nearest dumpster due to the modernization; Luther's work forward, collectively, with all the other Lutheran and even a lot of non-Lutheran non-modern works to 1929, I found on the money.
=Leuko Petra;62845285]Not desiring at all to be rude, may I ask, what is your primary language?
As for the passage of John 5:28; No, the context [locally and globally] speaks of two separate and distinct ressurections "the resurrection of life" "and" [in addition to; also] the "resurrection of damnation"; John 5:29. There are also other places directly mentioning this, the "resurrection of the just" [Luke 14:14], "and" also another of the "unjust" [Acts 24:15]. It is also designated as "the first Resurrection" [Revelation 20:5,6], and the other being the 'second' [otherwise there is no need to call the other the 'first' if there was only one] Resurrection; "the dead [wicked, unjust, unrighteous] lived not again until the thousand years were finished" [Revelation 20:5].
The two major resurrections [for there is one other, a third, being 'special' resurrection even before those Two to yet take place, as witnessed in scripture, to be discussed if necessary], since "the Day of the Lord" is the 1,000 Long period [that 7th Day, "the Last Day"; the earth being roughly 6,000 years old now; "a day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day" [2 Peter 3:8]], beginning with the 2nd Advent of Jesus Christ [1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, etc, does not touch the earth] and finally ending in the 3rd Advent of Jesus Christ [Zechariah 4, etc, comes down and touches the earth]. This is witnessed in several locations in scripture, but if you will go with me to Revelation 20?
Where are the wicked before they are raised from the dead?
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