Understanding baptism...

[k4c]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]Understanding baptism

As we grow in God’s word we will begin to see how in God’s word there is a literal understanding (outward) and a spiritual understanding (inward). We will also begin to see how God uses created things to help us understand spiritual truths.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

To begin this study lets look at a verse in Ephesians to help us understand baptism.

Ephesians 4:4-6, There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

In this verse God is speaking about one baptism. Do you think He is referring to the water baptism?

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Do you think that being placed under water is the baptism of the Holy Ghost He is referring to here or is it something other than the water baptism?

Remember that all throughout God’s word He uses created things to help us understand spiritual truth. For example when we read this in, John 6:54.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Do you think Jesus was referring to His literal flesh and blood?

He tells us a couple of verses later how He was speaking.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

He tells us that He was speaking spiritually when He referred to His flesh and blood.

When God’s word speaks of the one baptism He is referring to the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit in our born again experience. This baptism of the Holy Spirit is found in Luke 3:16.

Luke 3:16 John the Baptist answered, saying to them all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

This is the one baptism God spoke of in Ephesians 4:4-6. This is the one that is require in order to restore our relationship with God. It’s the baptism that cleans our conscience from the affects and bondage of sin.

Prior to the coming of the Holy Spirit, God used literal water to wash our literal bodies to symbolize how He was going to do wash our spiritual bodies (inwardly) with words.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

How He does this is through words, the gospel.

Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and (teach all nations, baptizing them) in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul spoke about not coming to baptize with water but to preach (teach), to baptize with words, the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize (with water), but to preach the gospel (baptize with words): not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Water baptism is a shadow of what God's word was going to do inwardly.

When we are taught the word of God it washes us just as water would wash our bodies (literal) the word washes our minds (spiritual).

God equates water with His word to help us understand what His word will do in our lives.

Ephesians 5:26-27 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Matthew 23:25-26 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

How do you clean the inside first? With words...

The truth of the matter is, if you have not been cleansed by the Holy Spirit baptism and are not being daily washed by the word, your water baptisim ready doesn't mean much.

So now the big question.

Do we need to be baptized to be saved? The answer is, yes.

We need the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Can there be a desire within us to be bapized with water as an expression of the inward work of the Holy Spirit?

The answer is, yes.

Should we fulfill this desire? The answer is yes, if the desire is because we love God and not because of a belief that it's a requirement to be saved.

There is a good example of this in Acts 10:43-48. We Find Peter teaching (washing with words) a man named Cornelius, as Peter was teaching (washing) Cornelius and his family were baptized with the Holy Spirit. After receiving the Holy Spirit they were baptized with water.

Acts 10:43-48 Every person who commits himself to Jesus will be forgiven through the authority of Jesus. All of the prophets say that this is true . . . .'' While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came upon all those people who were listening to his speech. The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed. They were shocked because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on people who were not Jewish. These Jewish believers heard them speaking different languages and praising God. Then Peter said, "Can we refuse to allow these people to be immersed in water? They have received the Holy Spirit the same as we did!'' So, Peter commanded that Cornelius and his relatives and friends be immersed by the authority of Jesus the Messiah. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Praise God for His truth...

For thoughs of you who are still unsure of what true baptism is and feel a need to be baptised in water but are unable to do so, don't worry. If you truly understand your need for a savior and you call upon Jesus to save you then He has already fulfilled all the righteous requirements for you.

Matthew 3:13-15 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?'' But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.'' Then he allowed Him.

Remember that our relationship with our heavenly Father is based on our obedience to His Son for He is Lord of the Sabbath and He keeps us in fellowship with our heavenly Father. If the Lord has placed it on your heart to be water baptized then by all means do it. To be obedient to the Holy Spirit conviction is abiding in Christ and this pleases our heavenly Father.

So you see, to get all wrapped up in these debates about whether one should be submersed or sprinkled is missing the true meaning of the baptism that sets you free.

John 8:32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.''

Blessings in Christ,
John[/font]

 

[fatboys]

Well you certainly have an interesting interpretation of the bible.

 

[wonder111]

I agree completely k4c, great post!

 

[Serapha]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]Understanding baptism









The truth of the matter is, if you have not been cleansed by the Holy Spirit baptism and are not being daily washed by the word, your water baptisim ready doesn't mean much.

[/font]

Hi there!



Where's that in the Bible?



~malaka~

 

[Serapha]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]Understanding baptism[/font]


[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]So now the big question.

Do we need to be baptized to be saved? The answer is, yes.

We need the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

[/font]

Hi there!




Again, where is that in the Scriptures? That to be saved, one must be baptized in the Holy Spirit?

That flies in the face of "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved"

I know you mean well... but you are pushing doctrine to the edge with your own interpretation of how the Bible should be applied to the process of salvation.

And that is the point. Salvation is a process, and each person is in a different part of the process according to how God is leading them... not by how you define that their salvation process should be progressing.


Let God lead the people, and take a back seat.


~malaka~

 

[k4c]

Hi there!



Where's that in the Bible?



~malaka~

Hi Malaka,


All throughout scripture we find a literal application (of the Letter, outward) and a spiritual application (of the spirit, inward). Prior to the coming of the Holy Spirit, all we could grasp was the literal or outward, the law written of stone, some are still in the condition. The letter will bring death because it's supposed to, God wants us in the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


The new covenant is inward, it's spiritual. We can't read the bible and know God, we can only know about God. It the Spirit that reveals the Father to our hearts.


Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.


John the Baptist was the literal understanding of an inward truth. John the Baptist came to prepare the way, to help us understand. John the Baptist was not the light he was just a picture or symbol of the light.


John 1:6-8 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.


John knew his water baptism wasn't the one we should be seeking but rather it was the baptism Jesus was to bring. The baptism of the Holy Spirit, the cleansing of the inward temple (conscience) to bring us into fellowship with our heavenly Father now having a pure heart and a good conscience. This is the born again experience, born from above.


Matthew 3:11-12, I (John the Baptist) indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


The fire, the fan in His hand, the purging of His floor, the burning of the chaff, this is the cleansing of the inward temple, the born again experience.


Remember there is only one baptism that is needed for salvation and that is the inward baptism of the Holy Spirit. How we get that is by seeking after God in the level that we understand.


Now the big question, does one need to water baptized to be saved?


Yes, and no.


The reason why I say yes and no is because the bible is a spiritual book that needs to be applied inwardly. Because our fellowship with God is based on a good conscience and a pure conscience and that fact that not all of us mature at the same speed, then based on conscience, some of us would need to be water baptized to keep the conscience right, but based on a mature understandings of inward truths we do not need water baptism because we understand that God is speaking to us spiritully in the water baptism so there is no searing of the conscience.


Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


I'll give you some examples of how our fellowship with God is through a pure and good conscience.


Acts 24:16 "This being so, I myself always strive to have a conscience without offense toward God and men.


Romans 9:1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit,


1 Corinthians 8:7-13 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse. But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.


From the above verse we can understand that a good conscience keeps our spiritual fellowship with Good alive. We have to be careful of the weaker brother and sister for whom Christ died. In this verse food is used but you can replace food with water baptism, the Saturday Sabbath keeping and so on.


All these things are to be applied inwardly but some of us have not gotten to a spiritual maturity to understand these things so they are weak in their understanding and need to be nurtured and cared for as we help them understand. Some water, some fertilize, but God makes it grow.


The law and all that is contained in it was given to allow us to love God and our neighbor with a good conscience a pure heart and a sincere faith.


1 Timothy 1:5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,


Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.


Truth in love,
John

 

[fatboys]

Hi Malaka,


All throughout scripture we find a literal application (of the Letter, outward) and a spiritual application (of the spirit, inward). Prior to the coming of the Holy Spirit, all we could grasp was the literal or outward, the law written of stone, some are still in the condition. The letter will bring death because it's supposed to, God wants us in the Spirit.

FB: When you say scripture, you only include the known words of God. There are other words of God than what is found in a collection of Books called the bible. The Bible is a history of mainly of the House of Israel. There were many other people on the earth who followed God and had their records who were from Abraham, but not of Israel. These other people who's records we do not have had their prophets, and lived by Gods commandments. And like many other people when they obeyed, they prospered. Then they would become self important and forget God. The same way as the biblical history of Israel shows. Israel is unique because God lead them into captivity in Eygpt. God could have tempered the climate so they could have survived without going to Eygpt. But God has reasons for all he does. Israel mulitplied much in Eygpt and is the reason they became slaves to them. While under this rule, they were told what to do, and when to do it for generations. Their knowledge of the Hebrew God became limited and the higher laws that had been lived from Adam up to this point of time were forgotten. Moses was saved to bring Israel out of Eygpt. Of course we all know the story, but perhaps what is not known is that Moses did not have any priesthood power. When he murdered the slave master and ran for his life, he went to the desert and came upon Jethro's family. Jethro was a Midianite. He was a decendant of Abraham, but not of the House of Israel. Jethro was still living the Higher laws of God, and held the Holy Priesthood after the order of the Son. Jethro gave this priesthood to Moses. Moses then saw the burning bush, and was told to go back. Of course he went back, Israel left Egypt. During this whole time, miracle after miracle was shown them and yet they did not have enough faith to follow God. Moses went up to Mount Sinai and God gave him the commandments. Not the Ten commandments, but the Higher law. When Moses came back down, Israel had turned the backs against all they had seen and witnessed, and had turned to idols. They were not ready to live the spiritual laws Moses had gotten from God. Moses went back up and God gave to him the spoon feed commandments. These commandments were to be temporal. To prepare Israel for the day that not only the Messiah would come, but bring a Higher order. These commandments could be obeyed not by faith, but by duty. I remember a musical Fiddler on the roof which describes it better than I could. Teva says that they have traditions to for everything. How to eat, how to sleep, even how to wear clothes. Why do we have have these traditions, I will tell you , I don't know, but it is a tradition. Tradition requires obedience out of duty. Not faith. It was all about works. These traditions made them feel secure and because of this they were comfortable.

During this time, Israel had great successes, but many failures, and had been taken captive and then returned to be taken captive again. When Christ appeared, they had been looking for a warrior Messiah, to fight their battles, and be a free nation again. They could not understand the spiritual freedom he brought. Christ did away with the Old law. The Old law could be lived perfectly, and still a person could not gain salvation through these works. A pointed reminder was when the rich man came to Christ and asked what he could do to have eternal life. Christ said to obey the commandments. The rich man said he had done this from his youth. Christ then gave him a higher law, give all he had and follow him. The rich man could not. So all his works of the Old law was not going to bring him salvation.

This is the misconception that many make when reading Paul, and his teachings of saved by Grace through Faith. NOT OF WORKS. Paul is not saying that new works can not save you, but the old tradition works. Like the rich man, the new laws or works require more of a person. FAITH. When a person has faith, they are motivated to obey God because they Love God, and obey not out of duty, but from willingness to please God.

Do the Lower commandments mean anything? Yes, they are within the laws of the Higher order. If you love God, you are going to honor your Father and Mother. If you love God you are not going to steal. etc.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

FB: The letter killeth because it gives people a false sense of security that they can have salvation through it, when it is only a prepratory law. If a person can not accept the spirit of the law because they believe only in the Letter, then it kills their spiritual growth.

The new covenant is inward, it's spiritual. We can't read the bible and know God, we can only know about God. It the Spirit that reveals the Father to our hearts.


Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.


John the Baptist was the literal understanding of an inward truth. John the Baptist came to prepare the way, to help us understand. John the Baptist was not the light he was just a picture or symbol of the light.

FB: John prepared the way for the Higher law, but introducing baptism for the remission of sins. In baptism, a person by total faith allows themself to be immersed in water which represents the death and burial of Christ, and also is symbolic of the step we must take show that we bury the old man and put on a new, just as in death and resurrection. It is a outward show of faith for a inner commitment to Christ.

John 1:6-8 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.


John knew his water baptism wasn't the one we should be seeking but rather it was the baptism Jesus was to bring. The baptism of the Holy Spirit, the cleansing of the inward temple (conscience) to bring us into fellowship with our heavenly Father now having a pure heart and a good conscience. This is the born again experience, born from above.

FB: I am not sure how this is related to baptism. I think this means that John can share the light of the Gospel to its fullest and not be the Light he is bearing witness of.

Matthew 3:11-12, I (John the Baptist) indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


The fire, the fan in His hand, the purging of His floor, the burning of the chaff, this is the cleansing of the inward temple, the born again experience.


Remember there is only one baptism that is needed for salvation and that is the inward baptism of the Holy Spirit. How we get that is by seeking after God in the level that we understand.


Now the big question, does one need to water baptized to be saved?

FB: Acts 2:37
37 ¶ Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You will notice that Peter says that in order for one to complete membership in the church, the must first repent, and then be baptized and then you could receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I interpert this to mean that to be a member of Christ's church, one needs to be baptized. That is the Gate we must enter in order to get on the straight and Narrow path.

Yes, and no.


The reason why I say yes and no is because the bible is a spiritual book that needs to be applied inwardly. Because our fellowship with God is based on a good conscience and a pure conscience and that fact that not all of us mature at the same speed, then based on conscience, some of us would need to be water baptized to keep the conscience right, but based on a mature understandings of inward truths we do not need water baptism because we understand that God is speaking to us spiritully in the water baptism so there is no searing of the conscience.

FB: If the Old law is the Letter of the law, then how could the bible be a spiritual book. Perhaps it would have been better to say that the New law brought by Christ is the spiritual part of the Bible.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

FB: Which Law? The Mosaic law as not spiritual.

Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

FB: This is a spiritual law.

I want to thank you for you understanding of the scriptures. I don't agree with some of the things you believe, but your zeal and sincerity to tolerate others is to be commended.

 

[Serapha]

Hi Malaka,


All throughout scripture we find a literal application (of the Letter, outward) and a spiritual application (of the spirit, inward). Prior to the coming of the Holy Spirit, all we could grasp was the literal or outward, the law written of stone, some are still in the condition. The letter will bring death because it's supposed to, God wants us in the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


The new covenant is inward, it's spiritual. We can't read the bible and know God, we can only know about God. It the Spirit that reveals the Father to our hearts.


Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.


John the Baptist was the literal understanding of an inward truth. John the Baptist came to prepare the way, to help us understand. John the Baptist was not the light he was just a picture or symbol of the light.


John 1:6-8 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.


John knew his water baptism wasn't the one we should be seeking but rather it was the baptism Jesus was to bring. The baptism of the Holy Spirit, the cleansing of the inward temple (conscience) to bring us into fellowship with our heavenly Father now having a pure heart and a good conscience. This is the born again experience, born from above.


Matthew 3:11-12, I (John the Baptist) indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


The fire, the fan in His hand, the purging of His floor, the burning of the chaff, this is the cleansing of the inward temple, the born again experience.


Remember there is only one baptism that is needed for salvation and that is the inward baptism of the Holy Spirit. How we get that is by seeking after God in the level that we understand.


Now the big question, does one need to water baptized to be saved?


Yes, and no.


The reason why I say yes and no is because the bible is a spiritual book that needs to be applied inwardly. Because our fellowship with God is based on a good conscience and a pure conscience and that fact that not all of us mature at the same speed, then based on conscience, some of us would need to be water baptized to keep the conscience right, but based on a mature understandings of inward truths we do not need water baptism because we understand that God is speaking to us spiritully in the water baptism so there is no searing of the conscience.


Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


I'll give you some examples of how our fellowship with God is through a pure and good conscience.


Acts 24:16 "This being so, I myself always strive to have a conscience without offense toward God and men.


Romans 9:1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit,


1 Corinthians 8:7-13 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse. But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.


From the above verse we can understand that a good conscience keeps our spiritual fellowship with Good alive. We have to be careful of the weaker brother and sister for whom Christ died. In this verse food is used but you can replace food with water baptism, the Saturday Sabbath keeping and so on.


All these things are to be applied inwardly but some of us have not gotten to a spiritual maturity to understand these things so they are weak in their understanding and need to be nurtured and cared for as we help them understand. Some water, some fertilize, but God makes it grow.


The law and all that is contained in it was given to allow us to love God and our neighbor with a good conscience a pure heart and a sincere faith.


1 Timothy 1:5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,


Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.


Truth in love,
John

Hi there!



There is a lot of speculation in your statement which you claim to be "literal"... I would make a public statement that your postings are your own opinion and not the teachings of dispensational theology which is the "literal" approach to interpreting the Bible.



~malaka~

 

[k4c]

Hey Fatboys,

All of the bible is the law or teachings of God. Jesus only spoke in parables so that those who had no true desire to know the truth would be kept from the truth lest they believe and be saved.

Mark 4:12 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

When Jesus said, "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you can't have eternal life." We He speaking literal or spiritual. He tells you a few verses later that the words He spoke were spirit and life.
How we interpret the spirit of the word is to learn how it applies inwardly to our spirit (mind).

Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

I'm not sure if you read, Understanding the baptism, but the spiritual application of water baptism is to teach, to cleans with the water of the word inwardly.

Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

This has to do with an inward cleansing of our thoughts and understandings.

Remember, this bible was written for us, the last days church. Many of the concepts these holy men of God taught were not completely understood by them. There are even portions of the bible that were sealed until the last days to be revealed by the Holy Spirit of God.

In one of your replies you quoted Acts 2:38;

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter says, "Be baptized for the remission of sin." That word, remission means to stop. When cancer goes into remission it stops.

Do you think placing someone under water stops them from sinning? Sin is of the mind and has to do with wrong thinking. There is only one way that I can start thinking correctly is to be taught how to think right.

All these symbols that God gave us were just a shadow of an inward truth.

God will hold accountable to what we do understand. The bible was given to us to help us understand. Only those who have the Spirit of God will understand the deep things of God.

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Let me ask you one question, what was Jesus saying in Luck 23:31?

Luke 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

Peace, love and joy in Christ,
John

 

[xsimmsx]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]Understanding baptism

As we grow in God’s word we will begin to see how in God’s word there is a literal understanding (outward) and a spiritual understanding (inward). We will also begin to see how God uses created things to help us understand spiritual truths.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

To begin this study lets look at a verse in Ephesians to help us understand baptism.

Ephesians 4:4-6, There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

In this verse God is speaking about one baptism. Do you think He is referring to the water baptism?

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Do you think that being placed under water is the baptism of the Holy Ghost He is referring to here or is it something other than the water baptism?

Remember that all throughout God’s word He uses created things to help us understand spiritual truth. For example when we read this in, John 6:54.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Do you think Jesus was referring to His literal flesh and blood?

He tells us a couple of verses later how He was speaking.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

He tells us that He was speaking spiritually when He referred to His flesh and blood.

When God’s word speaks of the one baptism He is referring to the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit in our born again experience. This baptism of the Holy Spirit is found in Luke 3:16.

Luke 3:16 John the Baptist answered, saying to them all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

This is the one baptism God spoke of in Ephesians 4:4-6. This is the one that is require in order to restore our relationship with God. It’s the baptism that cleans our conscience from the affects and bondage of sin.

Prior to the coming of the Holy Spirit, God used literal water to wash our literal bodies to symbolize how He was going to do wash our spiritual bodies (inwardly) with words.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

How He does this is through words, the gospel.

Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and (teach all nations, baptizing them) in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul spoke about not coming to baptize with water but to preach (teach), to baptize with words, the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize (with water), but to preach the gospel (baptize with words): not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Water baptism is a shadow of what God's word was going to do inwardly.

When we are taught the word of God it washes us just as water would wash our bodies (literal) the word washes our minds (spiritual).

God equates water with His word to help us understand what His word will do in our lives.

Ephesians 5:26-27 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Matthew 23:25-26 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

How do you clean the inside first? With words...

The truth of the matter is, if you have not been cleansed by the Holy Spirit baptism and are not being daily washed by the word, your water baptisim ready doesn't mean much.

So now the big question.

Do we need to be baptized to be saved? The answer is, yes.

We need the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Can there be a desire within us to be bapized with water as an expression of the inward work of the Holy Spirit?

The answer is, yes.

Should we fulfill this desire? The answer is yes, if the desire is because we love God and not because of a belief that it's a requirement to be saved.

There is a good example of this in Acts 10:43-48. We Find Peter teaching (washing with words) a man named Cornelius, as Peter was teaching (washing) Cornelius and his family were baptized with the Holy Spirit. After receiving the Holy Spirit they were baptized with water.

Acts 10:43-48 Every person who commits himself to Jesus will be forgiven through the authority of Jesus. All of the prophets say that this is true . . . .'' While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came upon all those people who were listening to his speech. The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed. They were shocked because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on people who were not Jewish. These Jewish believers heard them speaking different languages and praising God. Then Peter said, "Can we refuse to allow these people to be immersed in water? They have received the Holy Spirit the same as we did!'' So, Peter commanded that Cornelius and his relatives and friends be immersed by the authority of Jesus the Messiah. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Praise God for His truth...

For thoughs of you who are still unsure of what true baptism is and feel a need to be baptised in water but are unable to do so, don't worry. If you truly understand your need for a savior and you call upon Jesus to save you then He has already fulfilled all the righteous requirements for you.

Matthew 3:13-15 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?'' But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.'' Then he allowed Him.

Remember that our relationship with our heavenly Father is based on our obedience to His Son for He is Lord of the Sabbath and He keeps us in fellowship with our heavenly Father. If the Lord has placed it on your heart to be water baptized then by all means do it. To be obedient to the Holy Spirit conviction is abiding in Christ and this pleases our heavenly Father.

So you see, to get all wrapped up in these debates about whether one should be submersed or sprinkled is missing the true meaning of the baptism that sets you free.

John 8:32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.''

Blessings in Christ,
John[/font]

You don't know what you are talking about.

Hebrews 6:1-6
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on to perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Foundational stuff not to be relaid stuff that is solid. But you still have problems with it because you refuse to believe. Verse two says baptisms plural meaning more than one. You have Spirit and water just like Jesus said. You have misinterpreted the verse in Ephesians 4. That is saying you don't ahve to keep getting baptized once is sufficient.

Your doctrine can not allow for these two verses to contradict one another. If it does then it is false. Your doctrine says that you only need Spirit baptism that is not true you MUST have the water.

 

[fatboys]

Hey Fatboys,

All of the bible is the law or teachings of God. Jesus only spoke in parables so that those who had no true desire to know the truth would be kept from the truth lest they believe and be saved.

FB: God's purpose is to bring us to perfection.

Matthew 19:21
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

Luke 6:40
40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.


Luke 8:14
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of [this] life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

2 Corinthians 13:11
11 ¶ Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.


2 Corinthians 13:11
11 ¶ Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.


Galatians 3:2
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:3
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


FB: I have got to comment about these verses. You will notice that Paul is asking the members in Galatia how they learned the truth of Christ, through the spirit of works, which there is no such thing, or by hearing of Christ through faith.

The next verse infers that we begin in the spirit, or a pre-existant, which was perfect because it was created by a perfect God. He is asking how perfect are we in the flesh.


Hebrews 6:1
1 ¶ THEREFORE leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,


God brought us into mortality so that our spirits could overcome our mortal physical body. Each and every sin we overcome, and each and every commandment we obey brings us closer to perfection.

 

[k4c]

You don't know what you are talking about.

Hebrews 6:1-6
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on to perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Foundational stuff not to be relaid stuff that is solid. But you still have problems with it because you refuse to believe. Verse two says baptisms plural meaning more than one. You have Spirit and water just like Jesus said. You have misinterpreted the verse in Ephesians 4. That is saying you don't ahve to keep getting baptized once is sufficient.

Your doctrine can not allow for these two verses to contradict one another. If it does then it is false. Your doctrine says that you only need Spirit baptism that is not true you MUST have the water.

Hi xsimmsx,



I agree with what you are saying referring to many baptisms just as there are many spirits and many lords and many gods but there is only one baptism that God is concerned with and that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit just as He is only concerned with the one Lord, the one Spirit and the one God.



Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and
Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


Without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit you have nothing with Christ.



Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.



I know these things can be hard to grasp because they are spiritual and we are carnal, sold under sin.



Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.



Take some time a search these things out for yourself and allow the Spirit to confirm His truth to your heart. His desire is that we know these things for these things are the truths that set us free.



Blessings to you in Christ,
John

 

[xsimmsx]

Hi xsimmsx,



I agree with what you are saying referring to many baptisms just as there are many spirits and many lords and many gods but there is only one baptism that God is concerned with and that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit just as He is only concerned with the one Lord, the one Spirit and the one God.



Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and
Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


Without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit you have nothing with Christ.



Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.



I know these things can be hard to grasp because they are spiritual and we are carnal, sold under sin.



Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.



Take some time a search these things out for yourself and allow the Spirit to confirm His truth to your heart. His desire is that we know these things for these things are the truths that set us free.



Blessings to you in Christ,
John

No you are ignoring the verse it says that teaching is foundational for us. We have to have the Spirit and water. Must have both period. God is concerned with both. Don't even try the many gods, lords, spirits. That verse has nothing to do with this verse which says that baptisms is foundational. You can't build a building until your foundation is laid if you aren't baptized in the Spirit and the water then you don't have the foundation laid correctly. By the way the baptism is in the name of Jesus. Not in the titles of father , son , holy ghost.

 

[Serapha]

No you are ignoring the verse it says that teaching is foundational for us. We have to have the Spirit and water. Must have both period. God is concerned with both. Don't even try the many gods, lords, spirits. That verse has nothing to do with this verse which says that baptisms is foundational. You can't build a building until your foundation is laid if you aren't baptized in the Spirit and the water then you don't have the foundation laid correctly. By the way the baptism is in the name of Jesus. Not in the titles of father , son , holy ghost.

Hi there!



"You can't build a building until your foundation is laid if you aren't baptized in the Spirit and the water then you don't have the foundation laid correctly"

Well, you can still have the temple that God gave you for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. You may not have the spirit in the temple, it may just be a clean temple inside waiting for the the indwelling spirit to come. While you are waiting for the temple to be filled, the temple can be washed outside as a symbolism of the cleanliness of the temple inside.



"By the way the baptism is in the name of Jesus. Not in the titles of father , son , holy ghost"


Jesus Christ instructed His followers concerning baptism...


Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


If you need some glue to put that passage back in your Bible, send me your address and I will be glad to help you.



~malaka~

 

[xsimmsx]

Hi there!



"You can't build a building until your foundation is laid if you aren't baptized in the Spirit and the water then you don't have the foundation laid correctly"

Well, you can still have the temple that God gave you for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. You may not have the spirit in the temple, it may just be a clean temple inside waiting for the the indwelling spirit to come. While you are waiting for the temple to be filled, the temple can be washed outside as a symbolism of the cleanliness of the temple inside.



"By the way the baptism is in the name of Jesus. Not in the titles of father , son , holy ghost"



Jesus Christ instructed His followers concerning baptism...


Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


If you need some glue to put that passage back in your Bible, send me your address and I will be glad to help you.



~malaka~

I didn't take it out. I simply said you don't baptize in the titles you baptize in the name. That name is Jesus. Don't rip acts 2:38 out of the Bible either.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Are you saying the Apostle's were wrong? I hope not because they were the doers of the Word. They are the foundational stones of the church. They did it right. You should do as they did or be quiet. The entire book of acts shows that baptisms were performed in Jesus name. Because they understood that the name of the Father is Jesus, The name of the Son is Jesus, the name of the Holy Spirit is Jesus. that is what you need to understand. You need Jesus to tell you that ok I'll let him.

John 5:43:
I am come in my Father's name, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive.

Well there you have it the father's name.

I assume you already know that the Son's name is Jesus.

John 14:26:
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

Holy Ghost same name.


O Yea and JESUS said it I just repeated it for you.

 

[k4c]

No you are ignoring the verse it says that teaching is foundational for us. We have to have the Spirit and water. Must have both period. God is concerned with both. Don't even try the many gods, lords, spirits. That verse has nothing to do with this verse which says that baptisms is foundational. You can't build a building until your foundation is laid if you aren't baptized in the Spirit and the water then you don't have the foundation laid correctly. By the way the baptism is in the name of Jesus. Not in the titles of father , son , holy ghost.

Hi xsimmsx,


The foundation that has been laid is Christ, we build on that foundation.


1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Unless we are born of the Spirit and water he cannot enter into the kingdom.


John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

We know the kingdom is spiritual and is within us.


Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


So, something within means it's spiritual or having to do with our thoughts.

Being placed under water can do nothing for the inward kingdom so we have to learn how Jesus was using these words. Remember, Jesus only spoke in parables and the words He speaks are spirit and they are life.


Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:


John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


What does water represent in the bible? It represents God's word.


Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,


What does Spirit represent in the bible? The spirit of Christ, His mind, His thoughts, His life in you.


Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


How does Christ get into you? Through the gospel...words.


Ezekiel 2:2 And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.


So, unless a man have the Spirit of Christ inside him and the word of God nourishing and guiding him, he will by no means enter in.


Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


You can use this same principle of spiritual discernment when interpreting John 6:54-56,


John 6:54-56 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.


Now referring to names, a name is just a name, I know many people named Jesus. What God wants us to grasp in names is the character behind the name and all that it represents.


Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

If we take on the name Jesus we will be saved, in other words, if we take on the character and nature of Christ this is salvation.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


When we are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, what God is actually saying is, fully teach them who and what the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are, give them an understanding of their character and nature.


Peace to you in Christ,
John

 

[xsimmsx]

Hi xsimmsx,

The foundation that has been laid is Christ, we build on that foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Unless we are born of the Spirit and water he cannot enter into the kingdom.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
We know the kingdom is spiritual and is within us.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

So, something within means it's spiritual or having to do with our thoughts.



Being placed under water can do nothing for the inward kingdom so we have to learn how Jesus was using these words. Remember, Jesus only spoke in parables and the words He speaks are spirit and they are life.

Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

What does water represent in the bible? It represents God's word.

Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

What does Spirit represent in the bible? The spirit of Christ, His mind, His thoughts, His life in you.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

How does Christ get into you? Through the gospel...words.

Ezekiel 2:2 And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.

So, unless a man have the Spirit of Christ inside him and the word of God nourishing and guiding him, he will by no means enter in.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

You can use this same principle of spiritual discernment when interpreting John 6:54-56,

John 6:54-56 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

Peace to you in Christ,
John

You are ignoring what the people who understood the word and did it. They had understanding that you don't have.

You are like they were when they were babies. They just didn't get it while Jesus was saying it.

Matthew 15:16:
And Jesus said, Are you also yet without understanding?


This was said to the Apostle's


Luke 24:45:
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

When he opened their understanding then they were able to obey and do the word.


Many years later John writes of three essential testimonies on earth.

I John 5:8:
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

They agree in one. Baptism of the Spirit, Baptism of the water, and lucky us Jesus took care of his Blood, but we still have to drink it.

baptism in the water is real and it still is notice what the Apostle's did and said in acts.

Acts 10:47:
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?


Peter says you still need water after getting Holy Ghost. Why because water is still necessary to be saved.


Water and the Spirit is water baptism in Jesus Name and the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Period it hasn't and won't change until the end.

 

[k4c]

You are ignoring what the people who understood the word and did it. They had understanding that you don't have.

You are like they were when they were babies. They just didn't get it while Jesus was saying it.

Matthew 15:16:
And Jesus said, Are you also yet without understanding?


This was said to the Apostle's


Luke 24:45:
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

When he opened their understanding then they were able to obey and do the word.

Hello again,


You say I'm like a baby as they were and without understanding. You quote, "Matthew 15:16: And Jesus said, Are you also yet without understanding? This was said to the Apostle's"


Lets think about this for a minute, if Jesus was speaking plainly to the Apostles regarding water baptism then why would Jesus have to say that they were babies and in need of understanding. I'll tell you why, because there was a deeper spiritual truth to baptism that they weren't grasping.

This deeper spiritual truth is that water baptism is a shadow of an inward spiritual truth, it's a figure of something else.


1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


Notice how this baptism is not dealing with the flesh but rather with the conscience. The conscience has to do with our understanding our minds and the only way our understanding can change is through words.

Water baptism is a figure or picture of the Spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit. Whether you say water necessary for salvation it's still only a picture and a shadow. Without the real thing it will still only be a picture and a shadow, for the real thing to happened no wet water is needed.


Blessings to you my friend,
John

 

[xsimmsx]

Hello again,


You say I'm like a baby as they were and without understanding. You quote, "Matthew 15:16: And Jesus said, Are you also yet without understanding? This was said to the Apostle's"


Lets think about this for a minute, if Jesus was speaking plainly to the Apostles regarding water baptism then why would Jesus have to say that they were babies and in need of understanding. I'll tell you why, because there was a deeper spiritual truth to baptism that they weren't grasping.

This deeper spiritual truth is that water baptism is a shadow of an inward spiritual truth, it's a figure of something else.


1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


Notice how this baptism is not dealing with the flesh but rather with the conscience. The conscience has to do with our understanding our minds and the only way our understanding can change is through words.

Water baptism is a figure or picture of the Spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit. Whether you say water necessary for salvation it's still only a picture and a shadow. Without the real thing it will still only be a picture and a shadow, for the real thing to happened no wet water is needed.


Blessings to you my friend,
John

wrong again. It is an actual part of the new birth. The new testament is not a shadow or a type it is a reality.


I Corinthians 10:2
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

They were baptized into shadows of the new and might I add last testament.

cloud = the Spirit
sea = the water

Notice how they had both.

 

[fatboys]

Because we are confined within a mortal physcial body, it is necessary that we perform a physical act of baptism. Once we have gone through this then we can be baptized through the spirit by the spirit. Both are necessary.