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It's bcause of the story of the scapegoat in the Bible.Why are goats seen as Satanic?
Are you suggesting that it's Satan's doing when our ego's do something bad?It is the same thing.
For example, what would satan do to an innocent person? How would that person change?
Are you suggesting that it's Satan's doing when our ego's do something bad?
It's bcause of the story of the scapegoat in the Bible.
And an EXCELLENT read on sheep is a book called, A Shepherd Looks at Psalm 23, by Phillip Keller.
You're most welcome!Thanks for the recommendation!
My favorite line from the science fiction novel Dune is "Each man is a little war". I think the ego can be an adversary.I think ideas of bad existing is a different trajectory than are adversarial figures. For instance the image of ones ego causing bad things to happen does not make the ego an adversary.
My favorite line from the science fiction novel Dune is "Each man is a little war". I think the ego can be an adversary.
The problem here is the 19th century rejection of a Natural Order. Before Nietschean Supermen decried the herd mentality, it would not have been thought a negative trait to conform to the majority or follow authority. The idea was that as there is a natural order, a Way, or a Stoic Fate, it would be foolish to oppose it. The idea was to accept your situation, as the majority of mankind does, and in this way achieve harmony.Why are goats seen as Satanic?
I think its because their nature is contrary to sheep, sheep can be easily herded by shepherds and are drawn as symbolic for Christians in the Bible whereas goats go their own way. Often you hear of a pastor tending is flock, since the word pastor literally means shepherd. Goats are usually depicted as creatures with Satanic attributes since there are a handful of pagan gods who have goat-like features and the popularization of images such as Baphomet draw more parallels between Christianity's greatest adversary and goats.
Something I find interesting is that being referred to as "sheeple" is a pejorative term meaning that people are too dumb to think for themselves and just go with the flow. I do agree that thinking for one's self is important, maybe I am more aligned to the goat here? Is thinking for one's self considered an evil or Satanic trait?
I need to do analysis of other religions to see their conclusions. I imagine they're greatly impacted by their geography, since goats were a feature of the Mediterranean region and not as prevalent in other places.
I disagree. The Scapegoat is a precursor of Christ's Atonement.It's bcause of the story of the scapegoat in the Bible.
And an EXCELLENT read on sheep is a book called, A Shepherd Looks at Psalm 23, by Phillip Keller.
I don't particularly care for the concept of the devil, but it is clearly there in the NT. Baudelaire said that a good trick of the devil was convincing people he didn't exist. There is more truth here than I feel comfortable with.
One of the best literary treatments of the devil is in Brothers Karamazov by Dostoyevsky. He lurks throughout in vague allusions and oaths by characters, before jumping to life in front of the 'atheistic' Ivan. Even here he isn't definitely corporeal, but our evil actions, our 'mutiny against God', makes us reject the world as given us by God. Or in CS Lewis' Perelandra, where the 'Bent One' torments Ransom, but almost in a petty way, like an uncouth school bully.
The devil is clearly closely connected to us, as in "get thee behind me, Satan", so perhaps he should be seen as an embodiment of human rebellion against God? What metaphysical connection this has to an entity, would always remain speculative. I wouldn't be surprised if the devil lurks in the collective unconscious.
Christianity is not a dualistic religion though, so the devil doesn't matter. What matters is faith in Christ. While there are forms of Atonement like Christus Victor that cite the devil, others do not, and Salvation need not be seen in such terms - in fact, such strongly dualistic thinking has historically been considered heresy.
Whether conceptualised as an entity, an archetype, a personification of Sin, or what have you - calling upon the name of the Lord, trusting in God, would exorcise it all the same.
I wrote this on Satan in another thread:
And according to Fyodor Dostoyevsky, what did said visitor do to warrant such a moniker?"... it's an axiom generally accepted in society that I am a fallen angel."
How does "all-good, all-just" prevent things from going wrong all the time?Adversarial figures in dualist (and quasi-dualist) world views have the pretty straightforward function of explaining the fact that things go wrong all the time in spite of the supposed presence of an all-good, all-just deity.
What makes our ego so different from other creatures on Earth may be the consequences of being conscious. Is consciousness the true adversary? The Biblical myth story of Adam and Eve's fall seems to head in that direction.I think the ego can be an adversary.
I think human consciousness enables us to know good and evil, and to be able to choose to do good or evil in the way animals can't. So I wouldn't say it is the adversary, but it's a tool which makes us aware of the potential for evil, while enabling us with the ability to choose evil.What makes our ego so different from other creatures on Earth may be the consequences of being conscious. Is consciousness the true adversary? The Biblical myth story of Adam and Eve's fall seems to head in that direction.
Inspired by another post I made today, I decided to make a new thread addressing the subject of understanding Satan, or other religious adversarial figures. As this is a Christian forum, this thread is sort of geared towards Satan, though feel free to discuss any figure. In the case of Satan specifically, I've heard many Christian explanations for him: he is a fallen angel sent to cause trouble in the world, he is evil to god's good (dualist) or he doesn't exist at all and humans are completely responsible for their own suffering.
Many people associate certain symbols as "Satanic" or evil for reasons that are not always clear or have been lost to time. Other sorts of beasts and folklore have also been attributed to him. Sometimes he is depicted as a goat, in contrast to a sheep representing a good Christian. Some have compared him to Baphomet who is an entirely different figure but with imagery popularized by Eliphas Levi in the 19th century.
In the modern day there are several Satanist groups, most of them are atheist but some are in fact theistic. Sometimes religious zealots attribute political actions to Satan, such as secularists winning court cases against ten commandments displays or ensuring equal rights for other religions or the teaching of evolution. Christians have called other Christians Satanic even; Catholics, Unitarians, Mormons, liberal Lutherans and Baptists have all been at the end of this at one time or another.
Does your religion have an adversarial figure? If so, what are they called and how would you describe them? What is their role in the world? Do they literally exist or are they allegorical?
What are your thoughts on other religions' adversarial figures?
Short of complete derailment, other tangential subjects are allowed as long as they're connected to the OP. I look forward to seeing your thoughts.
Think about it.How does "all-good, all-just" prevent things from going wrong all the time?
I didn't even know who Greg Mathis is until I googled him, but really, you could have named anyone here. If Greg Mathis knew of every crime that was happening (potentially even before it happened), had the power to prevent it from happening or to completely eliminate the harm done to the victim, and yet did nothing except punish the perpetrator at some later point, he'd at the VERY least be charged with denial of assistance, potentially even abetting.That's like saying it is Greg Mathis' job to stop crime.
You really *are* literally-minded, aren't you? He's not explaining it, he's the explanation: "Bad things happen to good people" and "God loves us, wants to protect us and is all-powerful" clash? "Satan did it!"And what do you mean the "adversarial figure" has the function of explaining it?
Are you suggesting it is Satan's job to explain why things go wrong?
Then when I respond to your post as you wrote it:Adversarial figures in dualist (and quasi-dualist) world views have the pretty straightforward function of explaining the fact that things go wrong all the time in spite of the supposed presence of an all-good, all-just deity.
You switch the premises:How does "all-good, all-just" prevent things from going wrong all the time?
What gives here?Think about it.
You are all-powerful and all-knowing.
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