If you will share with us your view on how the universe began we would be delighted.
Because the fact that it did begin at some point in the distant past is an accepted scientific fact.
So enlighten us as to how this took place.
In defense of the existence of a (generic) god we often hear the argument that an "uncaused cause/unmoved mover" is necessary as an explanation for the existence of the physical world.
Leaving aside for a moment all the weaknesses of this argument:
Is there a good reason to assume that there´s only one single such "unmoved mover/uncaused cause" - i.e. would the validity of this argument really make a case for monotheism?
It has been shown logically, philosophically, and scientifically that the universe had a beginning at some point in the distant past Therefore the universe is caused. If you dont believe me, read Stephen Hawking.
Therefore your application of the Razor to proposition one is useless.
I will use logic with you Mr. Ellis, I hope you will be able to understand it. I shall make it simple.
Can something come from nothing?
Within the universe? Apparently not. Outside the natural laws observed within the universe - I don´t know.Can something come from nothing?
In defense of the existence of a (generic) god we often hear the argument that an "uncaused cause/unmoved mover" is necessary as an explanation for the existence of the physical world.
Leaving aside for a moment all the weaknesses of this argument:
Is there a good reason to assume that there´s only one single such "unmoved mover/uncaused cause" - i.e. would the validity of this argument really make a case for monotheism?
Im done speaking with people here on the subject of whether God exists or not.
If you're fine with living with a naturalistic worldview and all that it entails, then good.
You never did ask if I was fine with it. However, whether I am or not does not factor in to acceptance or rejection of others' assertions.Im done speaking with people here on the subject of whether God exists or not.
If you're fine with living with a naturalistic worldview and all that it entails, then good.
How do you know this?For me it really does not matter what another person believes in. Let each man be convinced in his own heart. I know that when I die, I am going to be with my Lord and Savior in paradise.
That would be nice, but they will probably continue as they have been doing it.I would like to encourage every other Christian who may be posting in this thread to continue to defend the Faith in love, meekness, and all humility.
If anyone wants to speak with me in private, I shall be delighted to via private message.
This isn´t the topic of this thread, anyway.Im done speaking with people here on the subject of whether God exists or not.
Are you telling me that you maintain that the universe is uncaused?
I want to make sure I understand what you are saying before I proceed any further.
Variant, im going to need you to really pay attention here.
"Nothing" is not our focus. We are not concerned with the metaphysical properties of "nothing" for "nothing" is a concept or idea used in the thesis which states that nothing comes from nothing I.e. ex nihilo nihil fit.
In asking the question: can something come from nothing, the answer is either yes or no.
Don't make this harder than what it is. It is quite simple.
It is extremely important. If there is no nothing to come out of then something certianly can not come from nothing and:
Saying the Universe comes from nothing is therefore an absurd argument becasue there was never a nothing.
It's not simple at all. If the universe dosen't come from nothing because nothing dosen't exist, then, there is a certian complication to the problem.
I have no justification that a nothing can or does exist anywhere.
Bingo!
I'm glad you're happy but nothing I say lends credence to any of your points.
It just means that we, as reasonable people, understand that something cannot come from nothing.
I didn't say that. I said nothing may not exist.
I've never seen a "nothing". I think it is misstating of the problem we are addressing.LOL. Ok ok.
This is a philosophical thesis.
1. From nothing, nothing comes,
2. something cannot come from nothing,
3. nothing cannot produce something.
They are all different ways of saying the same thing.
For example, have you ever seen a horse appear into thin air from nothing?
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