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UMC Certified Lay Minister

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We have a few of these in my neck of the woods. I talked to the registrar of our District Committee on Ministry this past week about some issues that were keeping me from pursuing candidacy for local pastor at this point in time (not the least of which is I've just moved into the district and I haven't settled into a new church home yet) and he suggested that I look into the CLM option. Here in this area, CLM's serve a number of the smallest rural congregations similar to the role of a local pastor, but without the authority to administer the sacraments or to officiate weddings.
 
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BryanW92

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I asked my pastor about it and he had never heard of it, except to say that "its the same thing as a CLS". I told him that he's wrong and showed him the web site, but he just said that "we must not do that anymore."

I'm glad that the UMC uses them somewhere. It seems like a great way to serve for those who lack the resources to pursue becoming a Licensed pastor and it would be a great benefit to those churches that are closing because they can't afford the ordained pastor's salary and benefits.
 
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I asked my pastor about it and he had never heard of it, except to say that "its the same thing as a CLS". I told him that he's wrong and showed him the web site, but he just said that "we must not do that anymore."

I'm glad that the UMC uses them somewhere. It seems like a great way to serve for those who lack the resources to pursue becoming a Licensed pastor and it would be a great benefit to those churches that are closing because they can't afford the ordained pastor's salary and benefits.

Nope. It's not that "we don't do it anymore". It may be that your conference or district has NEVER done it because it's still relatively new.
 
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BryanW92

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Nope. It's not that "we don't do it anymore". It may be that your conference or district has NEVER done it because it's still relatively new.

That's what I was thinking too. Maybe no layperson has ever asked the DS before. Since this falls outside of the realm of the Lay Servant Ministries, there isn't really an advocate for this certification who has the ear of the DS.
 
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BryanW92

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DCOM handles the certification and recertifications, so they are pretty well involved. I think that we don't hear about them in Florida much because we have so many retired pastors down here and you don't have to look far to find someone to fill a pulpit. I've been fortunate that I always get asked first if it's not going to be a Communion Sunday.
 
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I'm glad the UMC offers a lot of ministry opportunities for lay people. I do sometimes wonder if we should streamline all these titles and designations. Even a relatively well informed United Methodist has a hard to keeping up with the duties of each of these levels of certification.

I'd think if someone really wanted to pastor they would rather become a Licenced Local Pastor so that they have the authority to officiate the sacraments in their own appointment. It is a hassle to find ways to get communion to church members otherwise.
 
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BryanW92

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In Florida, they have changed the name from Lay Speaker to Lay Servant because it encompasses much more than speaking, and the Speaker title scared some people away from pursuing it. I wonder if the Lay Minister certification is a way of bringing those who do want to speak out of the pack a little to be able to get them to shoulder a heavier burden than the Lay Servants.
 
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BryanW92

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I'd think if someone really wanted to pastor they would rather become a Licenced Local Pastor so that they have the authority to officiate the sacraments in their own appointment. It is a hassle to find ways to get communion to church members otherwise.

It's a big leap from Lay Minister to Licensed Pastor. You may have people who want to keep their secular career for a while longer. For example, I'm too old to begin the process to become a Licensed Pastor, but not old enough to retire and pursue it after retirement.
 
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RomansFiveEight

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It's a big leap from Lay Minister to Licensed Pastor. You may have people who want to keep their secular career for a while longer. For example, I'm too old to begin the process to become a Licensed Pastor, but not old enough to retire and pursue it after retirement.

Actually; your situation is exactly is one of the big reasons FOR the LLP. I know several LLP's, including some I went to licensing school with, who hold secular jobs. One guy is the chief of police of the town he preaches in! If you felt called, and wanted to become a Licensed Local Pastor, and expressed a desire to be bi-vocational and work part-time your DS would probably faint. There's an enormous demand for Pastors willing to serve small part-time appointments. There are also lots of churches who are dying because they are the smallest of a 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 point charge and they don't get much attention from their Pastor. They are often just tagalongs with a bigger to church to help make the salary full-time; but get nothing more than a sermon on Sunday. There are churches out there who would be better served by a bi-vocational LLP than by a full elder who is serving other churches. That's not every small multi-point church; but it's definitely some.

Know that LLP's who are NOT Associate Members (and Associate Membership is voluntary and only an option after completing Course of Study which generally takes 5 years) are not itinerant. While we are still appointed by the Bishop; we are not required to go where sent and because of that, we get a lot of freedom and choice in our appointments that Elders do not. For example, my recent move the DS asked me if I would take a particular appointment; if not I could remain at my current one (I did take the move). If I were an Elder; the DS would have called me and told me where I was going! So if you're thinking you can't be an LLP because the Bishop might move you cross state; that's not the case! The Bishop could ask you to; but he/she won't make you, you can refuse the move. I can almost guarantee the Bishop won't ask. Most bi-vocational LLP's are appointed close to their home and only move if asked; and if they move it's somewhere close.

Bi-vocational Local Pastors is a growing and needed segment in many UM Conferences!

That's sort-of who I am. I am a 3/4 time local pastor and full time student. So my 'other job' doesn't pay (actually I pay them!); but as a Local Pastor my churches understand and accept that I have other obligations, and the DS/Bishop are accommodating as well. That's ANOTHER growing segment; instead of waiting to appoint Pastors until near the end of Seminary (or after Seminary); we're getting appointed in College before seminary! And for the same reason; there's a demand for part-time Pastors (and anyone who is an Associate Member, Provisional Elder or Full Member is guaranteed a full-time appointment; so that leaves us LLP's as the only ones who can be appointed to a PT appointment. Although some Elders in my conference are agreeing to take PT appointments. But they have every right to demand a full time appointment under the BOD)

To the original point; I have a CLM in one of my congregations. It doesn't seem she's utilized any differently than if she were a "Certified Lay Speaker". She fills in for me, and is occasionally called out by the district to fill in other places. She's also our AC lay leader.

As an add, in my conference it's fairly rare for LLP's to get full time appointments unless they have completed or near-completed Course of Study. Although as the Elder shortage continues; that may become less and less true. But at least in the MO conference; the ministry of the LLP is far and wide a part-time appointment.
 
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BryanW92

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That's interesting. Why don't they ever communicate this need? They act like they don't want anyone who isn't willing and able to attend seminary. If it wasn't for you guys, I wouldn't know anything about PT LLPs. But, I checked my appointment list from AC and see that there are quite a few PT LLPs in my district (and the FL conference as a whole).
 
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RomansFiveEight

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That's interesting. Why don't they ever communicate this need? They act like they don't want anyone who isn't willing and able to attend seminary. If it wasn't for you guys, I wouldn't know anything about PT LLPs. But, I checked my appointment list from AC and see that there are quite a few PT LLPs in my district (and the FL conference as a whole).

That's a good question. I knew NOTHING about LLP's going in. I went into this thinking I was going to have to graduate seminary before being appointed. It was my DS who approached me about becoming a local Pastor and serving a church while in school. Frankly; there is not enough being done to communicate the need for Local Pastors. I think, personally, that there's a fear that bright people called to be full-time Pastors will somehow shirk going to Seminary if they learn about being a bi-vocational LLP. But I don't think that's true. We do a great job of helping people discern their call; and if they are called to go to seminary and be a full time Pastor then they'll go. But I think that with the Decline of the church; God is going to be calling for us a lot of bi-vocational Pastors to fill in the gap; and we need to educate people about that call!
 
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BryanW92

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I think, personally, that there's a fear that bright people called to be full-time Pastors will somehow shirk going to Seminary if they learn about being a bi-vocational LLP.

I think you're right about that. You're almost like non-union labor undercutting the prevailing union wage since a church that struggles to pay an Elder can relax and easily pay a PT LLP.

We do a great job of helping people discern their call; and if they are called to go to seminary and be a full time Pastor then they'll go. But I think that with the Decline of the church; God is going to be calling for us a lot of bi-vocational Pastors to fill in the gap; and we need to educate people about that call!

I don't know a single Methodist who is even talking about seminary (or licensing). But I know two Lutherans from my Via de Cristo community who have quit their jobs to attend seminary. I don't think the church does much to encourage that call. Maybe its for the best since you only get people who really want it to do the research and find out what the process is.
 
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RomansFiveEight

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I guess that's regional. I actually met an attorney a few weeks ago who is quitting to attend seminary. I know that where I'm at if you tell your UM pastor that you think you might feel a call to ministry; he or she will get you in touch with the DS and the ball will get rolling quick. Seminars, retreats, and more lists of names and numbers than you could want. I know because that was my experience. The moment I said I felt a call; I was inundated with options. BUT; never once told about LLP or course of study. In fact I was already APPOINTED and my DS asked if I was going to seminary or course of study and I said "what's course of study?" (I was appointed before licensing school as a lay minister).

But to be fair I was 18 at the time. No career, no debt, no family. If there was a case for sending a guy to seminary I'm it. If I was a 45 year old with a solid career and three kids they may have educated me more on LLP/COS for a slower transition into full time ministry; or a career as a bi vocational pastor
 
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BryanW92

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Florida AC ordained 7 new Elders and 1 Deacon this year. We retired about 30. They did license at least 20 to make up the difference, but the rank and file members of the churches who don't have an LLP don't even know they exist and even my own pastor had never heard of a CLM. I only know about it because I thought I had a calling last year and did some research on my own.
 
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RomansFiveEight

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Florida AC ordained 7 new Elders and 1 Deacon this year. We retired about 30. They did license at least 20 to make up the difference, but the rank and file members of the churches who don't have an LLP don't even know they exist and even my own pastor had never heard of a CLM. I only know about it because I thought I had a calling last year and did some research on my own.

How many of those 30 retired where LLPs? Do you know? MO is actually not so bad in the Elder shortage; compared to some conferences. Many of those who retire are Associate Members, Local Pastors, Diaconal Ministers, etc. Though in some conferences they are retiring 3 or 4 or 5 times as many Elders (or more) than they ordain.

The UMC needs to respond to that. One great way might be investing more into Course of Study schools and bolstering the ministry of the Local Pastor. Even a return to the "Local Elder" is an excellent solution. Local Elders wouldn't have guaranteed full time appointments or be itinerant, but would have less stringent (and expensive) educational options; would be available for part time appointments; etc. etc. Full and associate members would otherwise remain the same. Local Elders would be ordained Elders though with the rights and responsibilities therin; and thus may make more sense as an alternative option instead of being a transitional option as it is presented to so many. (I've always been approached that a Local Pastor is a transitional way to serve a church while seeking ordination; few talk about the very real and very important career LLP. Even if that's not what I'm called to be, I know many who are.)

And you're right; generally speaking the laity aren't really aware of what an LLP is. Growing up (before my family jumped ship and became Southern Baptists; I came back though obviously), I knew I had a Pastor. I had no idea he was an "Elder". He was just my Pastor.

I do educate my congregations and explain to them what a Local Pastor is and what that means for them.
 
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