Uhm

wannabeadesigirl · May 3, 2008

There seems to be alot of posts going around on this forum about how Christians religious freedoms are being set upon by non descrimination acts and what not.

Something I want to share is a verse in the Bible that says to obey those who are in authority over us, and to abide by the laws of our nation. Anti descrimination laws are set in place by our government for the betterment of the American society as a whole. Isn't it our duty to obey these laws because we are commanded to do so? Shouldn't our personal preferences be placed at the bottom of our priority list?

Now I know there are arguements about "what would you do if it was illegal to preach the Gospel?" The way I see it, refusing to associate with, or to help same sex couples is far from preaching the Gospel. In fact it's denying yourself the opportunity to share the gospel.
So in this situation wouldn't it be better to obey the laws of our nation?

BreadAlone · May 3, 2008

You only obey the government so far as they do not conflict with the faith. If they've made laws that would force you to violate your faith, you could either protest, or to the etreme leave the country.

Apollo Celestio · May 3, 2008

More like we have to submit ourselves to them, don't resist. We may be forced to break the law someday, as the people under the nazis had to.

Texas Lynn · May 3, 2008

Everyone is free to practice their religion. No one's religious freedom is in danger from civil rights laws which extend protections to LGBTs. Unfortunately, disinformation is being put out by right-wing political groups to the contrary. There is no basis for it.

IamRedeemed · May 3, 2008

When government tries to overrule God's commands any who claim they know
God will be forced to decide who they will serve. God or man.

As Christians there are what is being called "civil laws"
that invade the freedom of speech, not only of Christians, but of God as well
by forbidding preaching and teaching of righteousness and those parts of the Word
that God has spoken, that condemn sexual immorality that obviously are in place to silence us.
Servants of God of course, cannot obey those laws and true servants WILL NOT obey those laws.
This may even come down to a matter of life and death for deciding to obey God
rather than man.

But Jesus said in regards to that in Matthew 10:28:

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather
fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

It is better that we ought to obey God rather than men. God help us to do so when the time comes that men would seek to take our lives for choosing to obey God over the wicked desire of men. (as our brothers and sisters around the world face every day and many endure horrendous, barbaric deaths) As that time is surely going to come because of one thing or another. But praise God, it is one effective
weeding process that's for sure. If it happens, may death come quickly.
They can only take our body. Absent from the body and present with the Lord. Amen.

Texas Lynn · May 3, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
When government tries to overrule God's commands

None of that is occurring. God does not command people to engage in discrimination and bigotry.

As Christians there are what is being called "civil laws" that invade the freedom of speech, not only of Christians, but of God as well by forbidding preaching and teaching of righteousness and those parts of the Word that God has spoken, that condemn sexual immorality that obviously are in place to silence us.

Maybe in Iran but not in the United States.

IamRedeemed · May 3, 2008

I couldn't disagree with you or the package of liberal definitions
you present any more than I do, if someone paid me.

Texas Lynn said:
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None of that is occurring. God does not command people to engage in discrimination and bigotry.

Maybe in Iran but not in the United States.

IamRedeemed · May 3, 2008

That is false information. Religious liberties are being trampled upon and the cloak of "civil rights" is being used to undermine God's authority in the Church and attempting to place a gag order on anyone who does not embrace the sin of homosexuality.

Homosexuals according to them are the only sinners who in their view,
have no need of repentance, when God's Word clearly and specifically
refutes that notion.

Texas Lynn said:
Everyone is free to practice their religion. No one's religious freedom is in danger from civil rights laws which extend protections to LGBTs. Unfortunately, disinformation is being put out by right-wing political groups to the contrary. There is no basis for it.

Texas Lynn · May 3, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
That is false information. Religious liberties are being trampled upon and the cloak of "civil rights" is being used to undermine God's authority in the Church and attempting to place a gag order on anyone who does not embrace the sin of homosexuality.

Nobody has said you can't say what you like. You just can't do it free from criticism.

Homosexuals according to them are the only sinners who in their view,

have no need of repentance, when God's Word clearly and specifically
refutes that notion.

No homosexual has said that of which I am aware. "God's Word" says ALL are sinners, including me and you.

IamRedeemed · May 3, 2008

Texas Lynn said:
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Nobody has said you can't say what you like. You just can't do it free from criticism.

Ditto. (even though your statement is a non-sequitur)

No homosexual has said that of which I am aware. "God's Word" says ALL are sinners, including me and you.

Many homosexuals with Christian icons say it on a daily basis in more ways than one.

No argument there, that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) But once we are saved we become new creatures, old things pass away and behold all things become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17) Our minds are to be renewed, (Romans 12:2) we are no longer blinded by our sin, but our sins are now in the light and we confront them and allow the Holy Spirit to purge them from us, this is called walking out our salvation. We are no longer brute beasts and haters of God, as we have come out from among them through the cross of Christ and into the light. (see Romans 1:30-32 and 2 Peter 2:12, 2 Peter 2:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17 to name a few)

Note verse 11 in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Such WERE some of you. Note the past tense.

Texas Lynn · May 3, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
Texas Lynn said:

[/color][/size][/font]

Nobody has said you can't say what you like. You just can't do it free from criticism.

Ditto. (even though your statement is a non-sequitur)

Click to expand...

Not at all. Once I was at Pancho's with a friend and I said something negative at Geraldo Rivera. A guy at the next table over said 'Excuse me," and then said why he thinks Geraldo Rivera is a great journalist. It was bad manners and boorish but not illegal. That is as it should be.

No homosexual has said that of which I am aware. "God's Word" says ALL are sinners, including me and you.

Many homosexuals with Christian icons say it on a daily basis in more ways than one.

Click to expand...

I've never heard it here or elsewhere.

Such WERE some of you. Note the past tense.

Click to expand...

Poor hermeneutics. The obscure doctrine that "Christians are free from sin" has no realistic basis at all. It is primarily used as a tool for the exercise of power.

KCKID · May 4, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
Many homosexuals with Christian icons say it on a daily basis in more ways than one.

No argument there, that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) But once we are saved we become new creatures, old things pass away and behold all things become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17) Our minds are to be renewed, (Romans 12:2) we are no longer blinded by our sin, but our sins are now in the light and we confront them and allow the Holy Spirit to purge them from us, this is called walking out our salvation. We are no longer brute beasts and haters of God, as we have come out from among them through the cross of Christ and into the light. (see Romans 1:30-32 and 2 Peter 2:12, 2 Peter 2:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17 to name a few)

Note verse 11 in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Such WERE some of you. Note the past tense.

So, IamRedeemed ... while I avoid the use of the term 'self-righteous' ...what makes YOU any different from those who you choose to condemn with such persistence and passion?

jamielindas · May 8, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
Texas Lynn said:

[/color][/size][/font]

Nobody has said you can't say what you like. You just can't do it free from criticism.

Ditto. (even though your statement is a non-sequitur)

No homosexual has said that of which I am aware. "God's Word" says ALL are sinners, including me and you.

Many homosexuals with Christian icons say it on a daily basis in more ways than one.

No argument there, that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) But once we are saved we become new creatures, old things pass away and behold all things become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17) Our minds are to be renewed, (Romans 12:2) we are no longer blinded by our sin, but our sins are now in the light and we confront them and allow the Holy Spirit to purge them from us, this is called walking out our salvation. We are no longer brute beasts and haters of God, as we have come out from among them through the cross of Christ and into the light. (see Romans 1:30-32 and 2 Peter 2:12, 2 Peter 2:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17 to name a few)

Note verse 11 in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Such WERE some of you. Note the past tense.

Click to expand...

I'm just not sure you understand the difference between decent and discrimination.
How again are christians being discriminated against systematically by our government?
I would guess that any example you give you might interpret as discrimination, but what it really is is protecting others who don't share your beliefs.

Morrigu · May 15, 2008

What you propose Iamredeemed is that the world view of christianity is imposed to every man on your country, because it would please christians. Isn't that what you argument to complain about gay marriage?

You are wrong by the way, nobody is forcing you to marry a person of your same sex. And like it or not, governments should take care and give rights to every citizen, including us gay people. To place some above others only causes harm in the long term.

That is false information. Religious liberties are being trampled upon and the cloak of "civil rights" is being used to undermine God's authority in the Church and attempting to place a gag order on anyone who does not embrace the sin of homosexuality.

When they arrest you for carring a rosary THEN you will have right to talk about persecution, or undermining of religeous rights. So far, you just have a political position that discents from the views of others. Nobody tramples your rights, your speach however calls for your government to trample the rights of others.

Texas Lynn · May 15, 2008

Morrigu said:
What you propose Iamredeemed is that the world view of christianity is imposed to every man on your country, because it would please christians. Isn't that what you argument to complain about gay marriage?

You are wrong by the way, nobody is forcing you to marry a person of your same sex. And like it or not, governments should take care and give rights to every citizen. Including us gay people, to place some above others only causes harm in the long term.

When they arrest you for carring a rosary THEN you will have right to talk about persecution, or undermining of religeous rights. So far, you just have a political position that discents from the views of others. Nobody tramples your rights, your speach however calls for your government to trample the rights of others.

In the United States, we have a large (though relatively small as a percent of the total population) faction of religious right adherents who are spreading the falsehood that they are being "attacked as Christians". NONE have been denied religious liberty whatsoever. It is merely an exercise of the "big lie" technique.

The one exception, kind of, was a big liberal Episcopal Church in Pasadena, California which was subject to an IRS investigation because the priest had gave a sermon critical of Bush. The church was eventually cleared. However, no U.S. "Christian" group has been denied rights to express conservative opinions on issues such as homosexuality and abortion. The charge there is is merely a political organizing tool, namely hyperbole.

Uhm

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Hylian Knight

Deal with it.

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Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

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Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

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Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

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When given the option, choose love and compassion

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