Ugh........

[Boltwave]

The atheists on the GA section are a complete waste of time, all I ever find is stuff like "intelligent design has been proven fallacious" and "the universe has always existed, it runs by a pattern of balances and imbalances, there is simply no other explanation", I don't know who I should trust anymore, but the apologetics section is not anywhere I'd advise anyone to visit, all they will tell you "you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong."

Onto other buisness, is it true that the gospels speak of two different records of the birth of Jesus, and can the Old Testament prophecies refer in particular to Jesus?

Need answered, thanks.

 

[Markec]

About the prophecies:
It's a matter of faith. If you belive Jesus is fulfillment of the old-testament prophecies, you are called christian. If you don't believe it and are still waiting for messiah, you are jew

Jesus practicaly fulfilled all prophecies (came from betlehem, relative of david, etc etc.) Also, if you refer to Daniel's 70 weeks - and calculate a bit with help of the date of Jerusalem downfall, you get the exact time when messiah will be born. And suprisingly, it's the year around which jesus was born (not 0, but something from 3-7 BC) If someone is interested, I'll explan how to get to this date, but I am currently a bit on short with time.

 

[ChristIsTHEKing]

The atheists on the GA section are a complete waste of time, all I ever find is stuff like "intelligent design has been proven fallacious" and "the universe has always existed, it runs by a pattern of balances and imbalances, there is simply no other explanation", I don't know who I should trust anymore, but the apologetics section is not anywhere I'd advise anyone to visit, all they will tell you "you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong."

Onto other buisness, is it true that the gospels speak of two different records of the birth of Jesus, and can the Old Testament prophecies refer in particular to Jesus?

Need answered, thanks.

Hi Boltwave,

Since you're interested in apologetics let me offer a discussion with some substance.
I'll argue that the universe did not always exist using something called the kalam cosmological arguement.
A basic interpretation of this arguement is in this example: Lets say that you are reading a book for class. You are on page 78. You, assuming you needed to know everything in the book, had to read the page before it and the page before it and so on going all the way back to the first page. More pages could be added to the beginning of the book to lengthen the time it would take to get to page 78. Depending on the size of the pages and the time it takes you to read, lets say it would take you 5 hours. Now, suppose we add an infinte number of pages to the beginning of the book. How long would it take you to get to page 78 now? The answer is never because you would never reach this point. The same principle would apply to the universe and this exact time.

I'm not sure what different records you speak of in reference to Jesus' birth. All scripture is accordance with itself. There are no conflicts, only expanded information. As for your prophecies question, let me give you a few with corresponding NT verses.
Isa.7:14 -- Mt.1:18
Jud.13:5 -- Mt.2:23
Hos.6:2 -- Lk.24:6-7

Let me know if you want to talk more.

 

[Boltwave]

Wow, I just took a look at what someone told me was "contradicting" on the accounts concerning the birth of Jesus, and this is what I found:

From the book of Matthew:

Matthew 2:1-4

1After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem

From the book of Luke:

Luke 1:4

4So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David.

This is absolutely pathetic, I can't believe anyone could misread this and call it contradicting, Luke wasn't even an eye-witness, so we would expect this to be true, but I mean seriously, read it for yourself.

 

[TexasGirl06]

What else can we help you with....boltwave.

 

[Boltwave]

Dunno, I'm sure I'll come up with something else in just a few.

 

[Calminian]

...and "the universe has always existed, it runs by a pattern of balances and imbalances, there is simply no other explanation",...

I think this used to be the popular belief among atheists, but BB cosmology has changed this in recent times. Now many hard-core atheists believe in acausality (an uncaused beginning). The BB theorizes that the universe actually had a beginning. But since there is no explanation for it, many believe it just happened for no reason. Indeterminism! There're several here that believe this.

So atheism leaves us with two choices. Infinite regression or acausality. And they claim we’re the people of faith.

 

[Boltwave]

I think this used to be the popular belief among atheists, but BB cosmology has changed this in recent times. Now many hard-core atheists believe in acausality (an uncaused beginning). The BB theorizes that the universe actually had a beginning. But since there is no explanation for it, many believe it just happened for no reason. Indeterminism! There're several here that believe this.

So atheism leaves us with two choices. Infinite regression or acausality. And they claim we’re the people of faith.

Hahaha.....brilliant.

 

[dvd_holc]

Onto other buisness, is it true that the gospels speak of two different records of the birth of Jesus, and can the Old Testament prophecies refer in particular to Jesus?

Need answered, thanks.

http://www.contenderministries.org/prophecy/jesusmessiah2.php
that site has a lot of prophecies and the fulfillment.

 

[Faith In God]

Wow, I just took a look at what someone told me was "contradicting" on the accounts concerning the birth of Jesus, and this is what I found:

From the book of Matthew:



From the book of Luke:



This is absolutely pathetic, I can't believe anyone could misread this and call it contradicting, Luke wasn't even an eye-witness, so we would expect this to be true, but I mean seriously, read it for yourself.

Huh! I thought you were talking about the two "different" lineages that are given and had my answer all prepped up and everything...

but this one's easy.

Matthew: After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem

Luke: So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David.

Read the context, man! Matthew passage: Jesus is born.
Luke passage: Mary is still pregnant.
Basic nativity story. Joseph goes "from the town of Nazareth, to "Bethlehem the town of David" (where Jesus is born) to apply for the census.

 

[Key]

This is an amazing site for answers regarding these types of questions.

J.P. Holding is a bit, out on a limb, but what he has to say is great, and truly amazing !

here is the Link.

http://www.tektonics.org/

God Bless

Key

 

[Reformationist]

The atheists on the GA section are a complete waste of time, all I ever find is stuff like "intelligent design has been proven fallacious" and "the universe has always existed, it runs by a pattern of balances and imbalances, there is simply no other explanation", I don't know who I should trust anymore, but the apologetics section is not anywhere I'd advise anyone to visit, all they will tell you "you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong."

Um...I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, what exactly do you expect to hear from nonbelievers? Maybe it is you that errs by going into that forum and engaging those without faith, thinking that you can overcome their utter lack of faith and disregard for God's Word simply by your power of persuasion.

Take heart young seeker. God will not lose any that He purposes to save.

God bless