• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟22,882.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
1.) If I search for the ultimate "truth", will I find Jesus? Or do I have to search for Jesus to find "truth"? Some of you may say that they're the same thing (and they very well may be), but the order in which a person searches is what I'm inquiring about.

Is there a possibility of me NOT finding Jesus if I start by searching for the "truth"? And by "search", I mean within - and without the aid of the bible.

Which brings me to my second question:

2.) If God is the "truth", and He is within all of us, then the "truth" is within all of us. Why then must we depend on outside sources such as the Bible (or Q'uran or whatever else book there is) to define what "truth" is?

Thanks!
 

seashale76

Unapologetic Iconodule
Dec 29, 2004
14,046
4,454
✟207,647.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Married
1.) If I search for the ultimate "truth", will I find Jesus? Or do I have to search for Jesus to find "truth"? Some of you may say that they're the same thing (and they very well may be), but the order in which a person searches is what I'm inquiring about.

Is there a possibility of me NOT finding Jesus if I start by searching for the "truth"? And by "search", I mean within - and without the aid of the bible.

Which brings me to my second question:

2.) If God is the "truth", and He is within all of us, then the "truth" is within all of us. Why then must we depend on outside sources such as the Bible (or Q'uran or whatever else book there is) to define what "truth" is?

Thanks!

1.) God knows the hearts of men. If one is truly seeking, they will eventually find the Truth. The order in which one searches has very little to do with it. God also doesn't work on our time schedule either.

2.) The scriptures are only part of Holy Tradition. One can read about the True Faith all they like and it won't necessarily make a dent. The Holy Scriptures can only be properly understood in light of the Church. Faith is an action word. It must be lived. You either choose to do so or not. God has drawn people to Himself who have never read the bible.

We are all in God's image and God is everywhere present and fills all things. However, we were made for communion with God. Through living out our faith in the life of the Church, we have a way of attaining theosis. God became man so that man might become like God. It is this process of being refined that will keep people from being burned by God's presence, for God is fire.
 
Upvote 0

MrFreshdew

Ask Jesus 4 Help
Oct 10, 2006
365,456
8,139
~John 3:16~
✟427,752.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
2 even have an *if* is pretty awesome indeed 2 have that placed on our minds, 2 seek,as it were as in another thought perhaps in the wonder of it all in how did this thought come about?
in Romans 10:17so then faith comes by hearing and by hearing the word of God.
could it b by some wonderful factor that maybe -since God is not limited-that He may have placed that thought within 2 sprout a notion of finding and opening a port with a shovel spike into our hearts? could there even b a simple way in our own hearts with a road to zion as His word says,that we might even hear within our own selves as so simple as a little child asking 4 a cookie?
 
Upvote 0

Stinker

Senior Veteran
Sep 23, 2004
3,556
174
Overland Park, KS.
✟4,880.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Is there a possibility of me NOT finding Jesus if I start by searching for the "truth"? And by "search", I mean within - and without the aid of the bible.
------------------------------------------------------


No. One cannot find Jesus within themselves alone by searching for ultimate truth without knowledge of the New Testament.



2.) If God is the "truth", and He is within all of us, then the "truth" is within all of us. Why then must we depend on outside sources such as the Bible (or Q'uran or whatever else book there is) to define what "truth" is?

God has put the innate ability to know general moral right from wrong. When one who is genuinely sincere about finding ultimate truth reads the 4 Gospels, this innate awareness kicks in. They then know moral ultimate truth.
 
Upvote 0

Criada

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 6, 2007
67,838
4,093
58
✟138,028.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
I think that if you are truly seeking, whatever name you give to that which you seek, God will honour that, and You will find Him.

As to the Bible, if you are not yet a Christian, then it holds no more meaning than any other book. It is only when you approach it with the Holy Spirit to guide you that it brings revelation.
That said, God can speak through anything, and if you are truly asking Him to reveal Himself to you, the gospels are a good starting point.
 
Upvote 0

Digit

Senior Veteran
Mar 4, 2007
3,364
215
Australia
✟20,070.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Hi CantThinkofaUserName,

1.) If I search for the ultimate "truth", will I find Jesus? Or do I have to search for Jesus to find "truth"? Some of you may say that they're the same thing (and they very well may be), but the order in which a person searches is what I'm inquiring about.
That's an interesting question. With the emphasis on ultimate, I would say if you search for this, then you would certainly find Christ at the end. I would say, that what sort of truth you seek is perhaps going to colour that slightly. For instance, if you are searching for understanding about our origins, in todays world, I don't think that will lead you to Christ. If you are looking for truth in the meaning of your life, then I would certainly say that will bring you to God.

Is there a possibility of me NOT finding Jesus if I start by searching for the "truth"? And by "search", I mean within - and without the aid of the bible.
I think so, I mean if we look around there are many in the world who hold beliefs that are alien to Christianity and some are even directly against it. So by no means is it assured.

If God is the "truth", and He is within all of us, then the "truth" is within all of us. Why then must we depend on outside sources such as the Bible (or Q'uran or whatever else book there is) to define what "truth" is?
First of all, I think that's a little leap of logic there, God is not within us, the Holy Spirit is, it's a part of God and it directs us. However without anything telling us about this, how would we ever attribute this direction to God? This is important, because it's why we have the Bible. The Bible is our guide to life, and it provides answers and also, shows us God's character and personality. Through this we can join the dots and come to belief in God. Even though the Bible says, God is truth, it is not presented as a definition of truth. It's presented as a character trait - telling us that God is always true, He is truth personified.

I hope that helps. :)

Cheers!
Digit
 
Upvote 0

Canuckmom

Regular Member
Oct 8, 2007
211
4
✟22,875.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
1.) If I search for the ultimate "truth", will I find Jesus? Or do I have to search for Jesus to find "truth"? Some of you may say that they're the same thing (and they very well may be), but the order in which a person searches is what I'm inquiring about.

Is there a possibility of me NOT finding Jesus if I start by searching for the "truth"? And by "search", I mean within - and without the aid of the bible.

Which brings me to my second question:

2.) If God is the "truth", and He is within all of us, then the "truth" is within all of us. Why then must we depend on outside sources such as the Bible (or Q'uran or whatever else book there is) to define what "truth" is?

Thanks!

God in Christ is revealed in the Bible - you will never find Him outside of His Word though creation or nature will show you that there is a God.

The "truth" is not within us. Romans 8:7 The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God neither indeed can be.
So they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So if you you want to find truth and peace with God you must study His Word.
 
Upvote 0

Gareth

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2008
1,227
50
58
South Woodham Ferrers, Essex.
✟17,334.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Single
Where did the idea that God is within us come from? He is not far from any of us but he is not "within" us. We have to search for him, and He has made himself available by the existence of the Bible. What you need is accurate knowledge. And the only place you will get that is from the Bible, otherwise you will not find the "utimate" truth you seek.
 
Upvote 0

tapero

Legend
Site Supporter
Apr 14, 2004
36,575
1,128
Visit site
✟111,044.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
1.) If I search for the ultimate "truth", will I find Jesus? Or do I have to search for Jesus to find "truth"? Some of you may say that they're the same thing (and they very well may be), but the order in which a person searches is what I'm inquiring about.

Is there a possibility of me NOT finding Jesus if I start by searching for the "truth"? And by "search", I mean within - and without the aid of the bible.

Which brings me to my second question:

2.) If God is the "truth", and He is within all of us, then the "truth" is within all of us. Why then must we depend on outside sources such as the Bible (or Q'uran or whatever else book there is) to define what "truth" is?

Thanks!

Hi Jesus is the truth.

He said; I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to Father except by me.

Jesus is God.

Jesus told us the greatest 2 commands were to love the Lord you God with all your heart

and

Love your neighbor as yourself.

God does not indwell those who are not in Christ.

So God is not within all people.

Once we come to Christ, the Holy Spirit, God is in us.

He is not in those who are not believers.

The bible says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

The bible says we are blind, and dead prior to being in Jesus. Blind meaning can not see the things of God and dead to the things of God, and it means more as well.

We are also apart from God and need to be reconciled to Him.

there's much more going on, but as well, satan, or the devil, called the god of this world, lies, steals and murders, and part of his goal, a big part, is to keep people from God, to keep them in the darkness, and away from the light.

God is not far at all, He is very near; as is written the Kingdom of God is near you.

I say this because we are posting to you about Jesus, hence the kingdom of God is near you..

You can not see spiritual things, beings, nor can we. But we can see and know spiritual truths, such as can not be known apart from being in Christ.

So you ask about seeking.. some seek, by reading things about Jesus. The bible is the place to read of God.

We are told we are dead to spiritual truths so you can intellectually read the bible, but spiritually you can't recieve the truths given, that is, in your heart.

So, though some do study of Jesus to consider Him.

Some, it has led them to Christ, others not.

I had very little knowledge of Jesus when I came to Christ, and of course will be forever growing in Him and learning more.

Others have more knowledge.

They all, who are in Christ, or majority, committed their lives to Christ and determined they would live for Christ and not for the world. They would turn from worldy things and to the things of God. Once in Christ, we serve God alone, Jesus alone, and all He's given us to do and as well as is other things written to help us in our walk with Jesus.

Jesus died and was resurrected for our sins, and much more. He defeated satan, though until the end times, we are still in this world, and still will be dealing with satan or the evil he and demons cause here on earth all in the spiritual realm, which again we can not see.

We also sin against each other, we sin, another sins, and this also adds to the evil in the world.

Jesus comes and teaches us what to do, first is to come to faith in Him, having faith it is He, Jesus, who died and was resurrected for our sins. Committing one's life to Jesus. Having faith that now what one used to trust in themselves for and the world for that now Jesus is our all in all.

We struggle all our lives as Christians and in the above and in many things, and yet we kow God is with us through it all.

Once we come to Christ we are a new creation, born again, the scales (so to speak) which blinded us fall off, and we now see spiritual truths, and truths of the heart which we could not grasp before.

Once in Jesus our walk begins with Him begins and He teaches us as I said many things, some of which I'm sure you have heard. The rest of the bible also teaches us about Jesus and many things, truths, to help us.

The bible says our struggle is not against flesh and blood, hence not each other, but against wickedness in high places. (parapharased) demons is what it is speaking of.

Fighting some kind of spiritual battle over believers and non believers.

Once in Christ, we are secure in Jesus, no one can snatch us from the Fathers hand.

Bible tells us we will face many struggles and trials in this life. Non believers also do, but so that you are aware that being in Christ does not mean things we formerly sought from the world for our comfort are no comfort at all. As anything can be gone in a second, and with Christ, we will always have Jesus, no matter what earthly things we may not have, and no matter what we face.

We in Christ, as we grow in Him can be rich in spiritual blessings, not worldly ones, though any person can have wealth, but certainly money and things are in no wise what Jesus desires us to seek after. We are once in Christ, not of this world, this is not our home.

We are to take up the cross daily and follow Christ, be Christ to others, dying to ourselves and serving others and doing good.

Now Jesus is our comfort, and we may die for our faith in Christ, many things may and will occur to us, and yet God is there walking thru it with us, and will work all to our good, yet we may not even see how that is done.

Once we believe in Christ by faith (faith in what is unseen), and we are born again, a new creation in Christ, God indwelling us, and much more, as I said, our walk begins, and you will see about such as when you come to Christ, the commandments given us to do or not to do, which we may fail at and often, but yet we strive for.

Now reconciled with God and by reading the bible our minds are renewed (changed) and in the end, we will forever be with God.

God bless,
tapero
 
Upvote 0

prgallo

Active Member
Jul 20, 2007
177
20
71
✟22,956.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
1.) If I search for the ultimate "truth", will I find Jesus? Or do I have to search for Jesus to find "truth"? Some of you may say that they're the same thing (and they very well may be), but the order in which a person searches is what I'm inquiring about.

Is there a possibility of me NOT finding Jesus if I start by searching for the "truth"? And by "search", I mean within - and without the aid of the bible.

Which brings me to my second question:

2.) If God is the "truth", and He is within all of us, then the "truth" is within all of us. Why then must we depend on outside sources such as the Bible (or Q'uran or whatever else book there is) to define what "truth" is?

Thanks!
1) Plenty of people search for truth and search for God. That's why there are so many non-Christian religions in the world. None of them find Jesus who is Truth.

2) God is not within all people. Why do think He is? Maybe I can respond better with more understanding of where you are coming from.
 
Upvote 0

Angel4Truth

Legend
Aug 27, 2003
27,701
4,634
Visit site
✟72,990.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
1.) If I search for the ultimate "truth", will I find Jesus? Or do I have to search for Jesus to find "truth"? Some of you may say that they're the same thing (and they very well may be), but the order in which a person searches is what I'm inquiring about.

Is there a possibility of me NOT finding Jesus if I start by searching for the "truth"? And by "search", I mean within - and without the aid of the bible.
Since man is fallen and seperated from God - you wont find Jesus within you unless you are already a believer. We are indwelt when we have been forgiven - that is when we are sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Since it appears that you do not wish to search the scriptures then that most certainly will hinder your search for Truth. Jesus is the word become flesh.
John 5: 38. "But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
39. "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
40. "But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
41. "I do not receive honor from men.
42. "But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you.
43. "I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
44. "How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?
45. "Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you Moses, in whom you trust. 46. "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.
47. "But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?''


Which brings me to my second question:

2.) If God is the "truth", and He is within all of us, then the "truth" is within all of us.
He isnt within us all. We become His children or choose to continue to be seperated from God.

Ephesians 1: 13. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14. who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

John 1:10. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
11. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
12. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name:
13. who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Why then must we depend on outside sources such as the Bible ..to define what "truth" is?
The bible is filled with prophecy that testify of Him bearing witness to who He was and what He did by fulfillment of the scriptures.

Anytime!
 
Upvote 0

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟22,882.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
That's an interesting question. With the emphasis on ultimate, I would say if you search for this, then you would certainly find Christ at the end. I would say, that what sort of truth you seek is perhaps going to colour that slightly. For instance, if you are searching for understanding about our origins, in todays world, I don't think that will lead you to Christ. If you are looking for truth in the meaning of your life, then I would certainly say that will bring you to God.

Definitely looking not only into the meaning of my life, but the meaning of my life, as well. The five W's, if you will.

I think so, I mean if we look around there are many in the world who hold beliefs that are alien to Christianity and some are even directly against it. So by no means is it assured.

And that's why I'm an Agnostic. Because it's hard for me to accept that who aren't Christian, who search (passionately with all of their heart and soul) for the one "True God", will never find Him because they don't "read the bible." Not saying you're wrong, or that I'm right, just saying that at this point it's hard for me to accept.

However without anything telling us about this, how would we ever attribute this direction to God?

The Holy Spirit, perhaps? It's our "guide", isn't it?

If I asked the Spirit to "show me God", would It not lead me towards God? Would it lead me towards the bible? Would it not do anything?

Thanks!
 
Upvote 0

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟22,882.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
God in Christ is revealed in the Bible - you will never find Him outside of His Word...

I'm not trying to go "outside" of God's "word", that's why I'm looking within - where His word "lives".

The "truth" is not within us. Romans 8:7 The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God neither indeed can be.

The Spirit does, and It contains the "truth":

1 Corinthians 2:6-16 NIV:

- "The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God."

- "No one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

So how is it that I don't contain the "truth" within me when the Spirit who lives within me not only contains the "truth" but whose (I believe) main purpose is to guide me towards that "truth"?

Plus, I'm not talking about finding "truth" using my mind, I'm talking about finding it by connecting to the Spirit: The Holy Spirit of which not only knows the thoughts of God, but is also within us.

Everything the Spirit says comes from God, right? And does God not speak the "truth" - is He not Truth defined? And if the Spirit (who is within us) knows that SAME "truth", how is it that we do NOT know that "truth", as well? And again, why is it that we have to read about it in some book when we have a source within us that is a direct connection to God?

John 14:26: "The Spirit therefore knows all things, and is able to teach all things."

By "all", is the scripture above not including that which is in the bible?

"All" to me does not mean some. All, as I understand it (and unless I get caught up in some twisted translation), means everything. If the Spirit is ABLE to teach "all things", if asked, will it not teach a person how he can get to know God? Which, I believe, is the most important thing anyone could ask?

And how about this one:

Romans 8:26-27: "In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express."
 
Upvote 0

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟22,882.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Where did the idea that God is within us come from?

I don't understand how this is coming as such a big shock to some of you - I mean I am by far not the most well-versed individual when it comes to the bible, for sure, but one search via Google will prove that people who seem to know what they're talking about think the same thing.

:confused:
 
Upvote 0

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟22,882.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Hi! Thanks for both replies, Tapero.

As pertains to believers, the Holy Spirit indwells us, who is God.

God does not indwell non believers.

So then I don't have the Holy Spirit within me because I technically don't believe in neither Jesus or God?
 
Upvote 0

Digit

Senior Veteran
Mar 4, 2007
3,364
215
Australia
✟20,070.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Hi again CantThinkofaUserName,

Definitely looking not only into the meaning of my life, but the meaning of my life, as well. The five W's, if you will.
Ok, so it sounds like you are essentially seeking to find the correct worldview. Which, if we are honest with outselves, is just what Biblical Christianity is, as it addresses the ten paradigms:

Theology
Philosophy
Ethics
Biology
Psychology
Sociology
Law
Politics
Economics
History

There is a good book that talks about these and details what each one means to the four most popular worldviews of today. Although that is perhaps dangerous thinking since by saying that, we almost imply that ultimate truth is based in one of these popular worldviews, which doesn't follow logically, but it's certainly a start since these are the views people are most exposed to in our modern society.

And that's why I'm an Agnostic. Because it's hard for me to accept that who aren't Christian, who search (passionately with all of their heart and soul) for the one "True God", will never find Him because they don't "read the bible." Not saying you're wrong, or that I'm right, just saying that at this point it's hard for me to accept.
Well there are two possibilities here, one is that people are not seeking with all their heart and soul, and another is that they are not looking for ultimate truth.

For instance, take this quote by Bertran Russell:
"If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way."

Desipte him being no friend of Christianity, he certainly hit the nail on the head here, since he recognises that it takes a great deal to sway people from a belief that affords them to continue to live as they do. The thing with Christianity, is that it most certainly will change your life, and some of the changes are really tough. Some are seemingly small things, I remember thinking, "I can't steal." ok, no problem I don't steal, then I sat down to listen to some music, and opened up my MP3 folder with 8000 songs in it and went, "Aw... crap." and thus gained almost 200GB in free space in a single day on my PC when I deleted all my pirated music and movies in one shot.

That was honestly an easy change compared to some, but it certainly takes a lot to accept something that demands change, which in a way, is something I find testifies to the truth of the Bible. If it was a man-made religion, why would we make it so alien? Why would we talk about an afterlife that has no sex in it? Look at Islam, you get to lie with multiple virgins, that to me seems very convenient, and just what I would expect in my version of Heaven. ;)

So, there are some reasons why people may not find Christ at the end of their road, but ultimately I have faith that at some stage in every persons life, God makes Himself known to them, what they do at that point is up to them.

The Holy Spirit, perhaps? It's our "guide", isn't it?

If I asked the Spirit to "show me God", would It not lead me towards God? Would it lead me towards the bible? Would it not do anything?
The Holy Spirit is indeed our guide to a degree, it never forces us however, and the Bible says that sin is like a layer of fog between us and God, the more we sin the less we can hear and feel God. Which is why for some it's so hard to make that huge paradigm shift, and to come to faith in God, because they are almost cutoff from Him totally through sin. Salvation comes from sincere repentance of our sins, and even that first step is like a mountain to some, as they equate it with praying to Mickey Mouse or Santa Claus. So whilst we have a guide, it is not without limits, and we need sincere desires and a clean relationship with God in order to hear it's direction.

Cheers!
Digit
 
Upvote 0