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Why waste time doing legitimate research when you can watch anti-Catholic garbage spewed forth on YouTube?It makes no sense, and if, again, you had done MINIMAL legitimate research you would have found out your statement is a lie.
I do like to be fair in arguments and I do like to reconsider certain things that the even my side may discolor or overplay. I am learning that more on a write up I am doing. So while I may put forth certain things, I am also open to a single point on being wrong. Keep in mind that does not mean my overall position or stand on the unbiblical nature of the Catholic Church is not true. However, this is not the place nor the time in my life to debate the RCC.Why waste time doing legitimate research when you can watch anti-Catholic garbage spewed forth on YouTube?
As I said, please quit misinforming people about Catholic teaching. You seem to have plenty of time to take information from anti-Catholic websites, again, the Catholic Catechism is readily available and post an actual quotation from the Catholic Catechism instead of misrepresenting a Catholic teaching.So even when it is by another Catholic, they don’t know what they are talking about. Okay.
But there is also this:
According to the official teaching of the Catholic Church, Catholic men and women are not allowed to believe what they read in the Bible without checking it out with the Catholic Church. They are required to find out how the bishops of the Church interpret a passage and they are to accept what the bishops teach as if it came from Jesus Christ Himself. They are not allowed to use their own judgment or follow their own conscience. They are required to believe whatever the bishops teach without questioning it. (Catechism 85, 87, 100, 862, 891, 939, 2034, 2037, 2041, 2050)
In other words, no personal study and revelation is really allowed. One has to submit to the interpretation of the Bishops.
Side Note:
As for Justin Martyr:
He helped to develop the existence of Purgatory. While there may have been early disjointed practices that would resemble certain Catholic practices, I don’t believe the Catholic Church did not really start to form until the early 300s with Constantine. I know you have your own version of history and so I know you will not accept this narrative.
Source used:
Repeating yourself is not going to change anything. Granted, you are entitled to your opinion. So am I. I do not believe I am misrepresenting the Catholic Church, but repeating yourself to say so otherwise will just turn things into a mindless “great taste, less filling” type argument. My belief (not yours) is that anyone (without a Catholic bias or hooked into its system) can read the Bible and see all the extra biblical things in the RCC goes against many parts of Scripture. But again, this is not the place or time to debate such a thing.As I said, please quit misinforming people about Catholic teaching. You seem to have plenty of time to take information from anti-Catholic websites, again, the Catholic Catechism is readily available and post an actual quotation from the Catholic Catechism instead of misrepresenting a Catholic teaching.
What are you not understanding? I explained this to you already in Post #244If so, how did Jesus "fulfill" the Mosaic law, "Thou shalt not steal", for example?
How do you know what is "moral"?
Please start another thread for this discussion. I am trying to get this thread back on topic. This topic is about discussing the two aspects of salvation as taught in the Bible. Meaning, do you see it as biblical or unbiblical? What support in Scripture do you have to support your position?What are you not understanding? I explained this to you already in Post #244
Please describe the morality that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit has produced.morality remains a product of the indwelling Holy Spirit in the believer because God is moral.
Is this Sanctification? Is it dealing with salvation? If not, it is not the topic of the thread, my friend.Please describe the morality that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit has produced.
Please list the sins that this indwelling morality has defined.
This is one of those unfalsfiable claims. If a believer commits a "deadly" sin, you would claim that he wasn't "indwelt by the Holy Spirit".Except one indwelt by the Holy Spirit isn't going to be prone to committing that sin
They claim that they can and will sin and yet there are still saved. There are different degrees of their justifying sin of course. Some will say no true believer will murder, and yet others say you can do so and be saved. This is the scary thing about this wrong understanding on the Bible. Then again, there are other Christians who commit sin and they don’t think it is sin. One example is that there are Christians who do not think porn is a sin. There are other sins that other denominations who have problems in recognizing what other sins are, as well.This is one of those unfalsfiable claims. If a believer commits a "deadly" sin, you would claim that he wasn't "indwelt by the Holy Spirit".
I wish I had a dollar for every believer who thought he was "indwelt by the Holy Spirit" but then went on to commit a "deadly" sin!
If you're correct and a believer who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit isn't going to be prone to committing that sin, then no believer can say that they're "indwelt by the Holy Spirit", because no one can see into the future - no one can know that they'll never commit a "deadly" sin.
Of course it"s dealing with salvation:Is this Sanctification? Is it dealing with salvation?
Just trying to straighten out the more outrageous of your claims, such as that Catholics could not study the Bible for themselves until World War II. Studying the Church fathers and actual history gains a much better understanding of Catholicism then does frequenting anti-Catholic websites.Repeating yourself is not going to change anything. Granted, you are entitled to your opinion. So am I. I do not believe I am misrepresenting the Catholic Church, but repeating yourself to say so otherwise will just turn things into a mindless “great taste, less filling” type argument. My belief (not yours) is that anyone (without a Catholic bias or hooked into its system) can read the Bible and see all the extra biblical things in the RCC goes against many parts of Scripture. But again, this is not the place or time to debate such a thing.
So lets move on.
The thread topic is not Catholicism.
May God’s love shine upon you today.
Why do you assume this would be different than what's written in the law; further added onto by what Jesus explained himself?Please describe the morality that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit has produced.
Please list the sins that this indwelling morality has defined.
This is one of those unfalsfiable claims. If a believer commits a "deadly" sin, you would claim that he wasn't "indwelt by the Holy Spirit".
I wish I had a dollar for every believer who thought he was "indwelt by the Holy Spirit" but then went on to commit a "deadly" sin!
If you're correct and a believer who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit isn't going to be prone to committing that sin, then no believer can say that they're "indwelt by the Holy Spirit", because no one can see into the future - no one can know that they'll never commit a "deadly" sin.
Not the topic of this thread. Start another thread if you like. This is not the topic.Just trying to straighten out the more outrageous of your claims, such as that Catholics could not study the Bible for themselves until World War II. Studying the Church fathers and actual history gains a much better understanding of Catholicism then does frequenting anti-Catholic websites.
“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
― Fulton J. Sheen
It seems clear from the NT that the Jewish Christians didn't think Jesus had fulfilled the entire law of Moses - for example, they kept the laws relating to diet and circumcision and expected all Jewish converts to do likewise.Jesus fulfilled the entirety of the Mosaic law ...
Now what your saying about Jews as opposed to gentiles; you're going to have to explain a little more because I'm not sure what exactly you are referring to by laws Jews were still expected to keep.
The OP mentions sanctification, so discussing sin and morality is hardly getting "off track", I should think.But, if you want to discuss this further; than message me. @Bible Highlighter is getting upset that his thread has "gotten off track".
Jesus left such things up His Church.It seems clear from the NT that the Jewish Christians didn't think Jesus had fulfilled the entire law of Moses - for example, they kept the laws relating to diet and circumcision and expected all Jewish converts to do likewise.
Before the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15) they (or at least some of them) believed Gentile converts must also keep those Mosaic laws.
In Acts 21, James - speaking on behalf of Jewish Christians who "are all zealous for the law" - is concerned by the rumour that Paul is teaching "all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or observe the customs".
In Galatians 2, Peter didn't want to be seen eating with the Gentile Christians because he feared "the circumcision party" - Jewish Christians visiting from Jerusalem who were under James, who would have come down heavily on Peter if they saw him eating "unclean" Gentile food.
Paul accused Peter, Barnabas (a Jewish Christian) and the visiting Jews of acting "insincerely" because they evidently began insisting that the Antioch Gentile Christians "live like Jews” (Gal 2:14).
Paul, who vehemently opposed circumcision for Christians, had Timothy - a Christian - circumcised "because of the Jews". Timothy's mother was Jewish, so the Jews would have considered him Jewish by law. (Acts 16:1-3)
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