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I post this list for the benefit of those who have eyes to see, ears to hear, etc.
[FONT="]Col 1:22-23 He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, [/FONT]
[FONT="]and blameless, and above reproach in His sight [/FONT][FONT="]if indeed you continue in the faith[/FONT][FONT="], [/FONT]
[FONT="]grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel [/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Cor 15:1-2 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, [/FONT]
[FONT="]which also you received and in which you stand, by which also [/FONT]
[FONT="]you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you unless you believed in vain.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Heb 2:1-4 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, [/FONT]
[FONT="]lest we drift away[/FONT][FONT="].[/FONT][FONT="] For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, [/FONT]
[FONT="]and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, [/FONT]
[FONT="]how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation ?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Heb 10:36-39 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, [/FONT]
[FONT="]you may receive the promise: For yet a little while, and He who is coming will come [/FONT]
[FONT="]and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, [/FONT]
[FONT="]My soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not of those who draw back to perdition[/FONT][FONT="], [/FONT]
[FONT="]but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Oh, really? Paul always encourages.[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Tim 4:16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, [/FONT]
[FONT="]for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Jude 1:20-21 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, [/FONT]
[FONT="]praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, [/FONT]
[FONT="]looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Phil 2:12-16 work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; [/FONT]
[FONT="]for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. [/FONT]
[FONT="] that you may (not will) become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault[/FONT]
[FONT="] holding fast the word of life, so that I may (not will) rejoice in the day of Christ [/FONT]
[FONT="]that I have not run in vain or labored in vain[/FONT][FONT="].[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Pet 1:5-9 the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that [/FONT]
[FONT="]perishes, though it is tested by fire, may (not will) be found to praise, honor, and glory at [/FONT]
[FONT="]the revelation of Jesus Christ receiving the end of your faith the salvation of your souls.[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Tim 6:9-14 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into [/FONT]
[FONT="]many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition (i.e. hell). [/FONT]
[FONT="]For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith [/FONT]
[FONT="]in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But you, O man of [/FONT]
[FONT="]God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called [/FONT]
[FONT="]I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus that you[/FONT]
[FONT="]keep this commandment [/FONT][FONT="]without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christs appearing[/FONT]
[FONT="]Rev 2:10 Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, [/FONT]
[FONT="]that[/FONT][FONT="] you may (will) be tested[/FONT][FONT="], and you will have tribulation ten days. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of (eternal) life.[/FONT]
[FONT="]James 1:12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, [/FONT]
[FONT="]he will receive the crown of life[/FONT][FONT="] which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Heb 3:6,14 Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are, [/FONT]
[FONT="]if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.[/FONT]
[FONT="] For we have become partakers of Christ, [/FONT]
[FONT="]if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 Tim 2:12 If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.
[/FONT][FONT="]Because of all of the above verses [/FONT]
[FONT="]1) Christians see the following passage as having a double-meaning:[/FONT]
[FONT="]Matt 10:22 But he who endures to the end (of his life) will be saved. (also Mark 13:13, Matt 24:13)[/FONT]
[FONT="]2) Eternal life is actually granted (or denied) some time after one dies![/FONT]
.
Overall,
Old agreeing to agree Jack
God has chosen to keep several of His spiritual Truths somewhat hidden!Those with eyes which see will see plainly that none of these verses says that
continued faith is required for salvation.
I don't that for a minute. There is no reason for Him to hide His Truths. In fact, His will is that all be saved and come to the knowledge of Truth.God has chosen to keep several of His spiritual Truths somewhat hidden!
He also admitted to the Jews that He was God's Son directly.A prime example of this is ...
Jesus did not climb a hill overlooking thousands of followers and scream, "I AM GOD!".
Actually, He only revealed this clearly to His disciples towards the end of His 3 years of ministry.
Quite the condescending comment.Explanations such as this are for those who are open to spiritual Truth.
.
I said "somewhat hidden".There is no reason for Him to hide His Truths.
In fact, His will is that all be saved and come to the knowledge of Truth.
If what you say is true, how did you find what He has hidden?
Or, is He playing hide and seek with us?
I said "somewhat hidden".
THERE IZ SCRIPTURES WHERE HE SAYS HE HIDES THE TRUTH FROM MAN.
Go find 'em!
.
Do you know how many men He hides the truth from? How do you know you aren't included?I said "somewhat hidden".
THERE IZ SCRIPTURES WHERE HE SAYS HE HIDES THE TRUTH FROM MAN.
Go find 'em!
.
Do you know how many men He hides the truth from? How do you know you aren't included?
In fact, the only ones He hides truth from are those not seeking:
2 Thessalonians 2:10
and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
Yes, people believe what they love. iow, they don't love what they don't believe.Not those 'seeking,' however those that lack an agape for the truth, ie, whatever agape may mean in today's apostasy?
Hello all,
I have been Christian for little over a year now and I have backslidden to a state of prayerlessness, habitual sin, inner bitterness toward God and sheer fear of if I am beyond salvation, but in my heart I want nothing more than to return to God.
When I started out learning scripture I got the wrong idea of salvation, preachers commonly preach on:
- Once Saved Always Saved - LIES
- Works are nothing, faith is everything - LIES
- God forgives ALL sin, no matter how many - LIES
Now many here will agree with some, if not all them statements. But I challenge you, as I feel they are scripture that has been sinisterly twisted over the years.
By believing these doctrines I developed an attitude that no matter what I did, I was saved and all I had to do was believe that God raised Jesus from the dead (which I did). This led me to think I could get away with enjoying the "passing pleasures" of sin. As a result, I have backslidden and tremble at the thought of if I have "fallen away".
The Bible clearly states:
'but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.' - Matthew 24:13
'In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.' - James 2:17
'If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,' - Hebrews 10:26
'It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.' - Hebrews 6:4-6
'And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.' - Luke 12:10
I want to come back to God, to feel that passion that I had some time ago. False doctrine like above has helped cause me to stumble, along with my own foolishness. Please, if you have any advice for me or want to chat about the above doctrines, please leave a comment.
God bless you all.
Jacob
Hello all,
I have been Christian for little over a year now and I have backslidden to a state of prayerlessness, habitual sin, inner bitterness toward God and sheer fear of if I am beyond salvation, but in my heart I want nothing more than to return to God.
When I started out learning scripture I got the wrong idea of salvation, preachers commonly preach on:
- Once Saved Always Saved - LIES
- Works are nothing, faith is everything - LIES
- God forgives ALL sin, no matter how many - LIES
Now many here will agree with some, if not all them statements. But I challenge you, as I feel they are scripture that has been sinisterly twisted over the years.
By believing these doctrines I developed an attitude that no matter what I did, I was saved and all I had to do was believe that God raised Jesus from the dead (which I did). This led me to think I could get away with enjoying the "passing pleasures" of sin. As a result, I have backslidden and tremble at the thought of if I have "fallen away".
The Bible clearly states:
'but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.' - Matthew 24:13
'In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.' - James 2:17
'If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,' - Hebrews 10:26
'It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.' - Hebrews 6:4-6
'And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.' - Luke 12:10
I want to come back to God, to feel that passion that I had some time ago. False doctrine like above has helped cause me to stumble, along with my own foolishness. Please, if you have any advice for me or want to chat about the above doctrines, please leave a comment.
God bless you all.
Jacob
That's not how grammar works in Greek or English. Different contexts require different grammar.If every occurrence of believe was in the present tense, you would have a point, but it also occurs in the aorist tense. Paul's answer to the jailer was in the aorist tense and the result was in the future tense (will be saved)....
It is clear from Scripture that at the moment one believes (aorist tense), one is saved and HAS eternal life. And there is nothing to suggest that eternal life isn't eternal, or can be lost.
Where are the rules regarding "different grammar" for "different contexts". Grammar rules are for the language, not for context.That's not how grammar works in Greek or English. Different contexts require different grammar.
If Jesus had NOT used the aorist tense for "believe and be saved" in Luke 8:12, and in the next verse used the present tense for "believe for a while", I might be persuaded of your view. But by His using "believe" in the present tense and adding "for a while" obvious shows that even present tenses aren't always continuous.This is a core understanding of salvation:
John 3:15-16 states clearly that there must be continuing belief/faith for there to be continuing salvation/eternal life:
15 that whoever believes [present tense - continues to believe] in him may have [present tense - may continue to have] eternal life.Your 'clear from Scripture' view is contradicted by the grammar of John 3:15-16.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes [present tense - continues to believe] in him should not perish but have [present tense - continue to have] eternal life.
Re: UNO ... I know you have seen the 15 verses (in post 18) which warn that one's faith must continue until death.UNO ... Also, if salvation was based on continual faith, why in the world are there NO verses that
plainly give such a warning: keep on believing if you want to keep on being saved, or something like that?
DOS ... A person is saved immediately upon faith in Christ.
At that same moment, God regenerates, justifies, forgives, and gives the right to be His child.
Re: UNO ... I know you have seen the 15 verses (in post 18) which warn that one's faith must continue until death.
Re: DOS ... Ditto as per da UNO.
TRES ... You continue to insist on ignoring plain and obvious Scripture verses,
which explain clearly why your salvation doctrine is false.
Why, even the Hammster now acknowledges the necessity of continuance.
.
16 Then the men rose from there and looked toward Sodom, and Abraham went with them to send them on the way. 17 And the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am doing, 18 since Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I have known him, in order that he may command his children and his household after him, that they keep the way of the Lord, to do righteousness and justice, that the Lord may bring to Abraham what He has spoken to him.”
Jesus Rejoices in the Spirit
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 22 All[g] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things we write to you that your[a] joy may be full.
Where are the rules regarding "different grammar" for "different contexts". Grammar rules are for the language, not for context.
If Jesus had NOT used the aorist tense for "believe and be saved" in Luke 8:12, and in the next verse used the present tense for "believe for a while", I might be persuaded of your view. But by His using "believe" in the present tense and adding "for a while" obvious shows that even present tenses aren't always continuous.
There are many texts where "believe" is in the aorist tense. No sense of time.
Also, if salvation was based on continual faith, why in the world are there NO verses that plainly give such a warning: keep on believing if you want to keep on being saved, or something like that?
A person is saved immediately upon faith in Christ. At that same moment, God regenerates, justifies, forgives, and gives the right to be His child.
None of these things are ever described as in jeopardy of being lost in Scripture.
Hello all,
I have been Christian for little over a year now and I have backslidden to a state of prayerlessness, habitual sin, inner bitterness toward God and sheer fear of if I am beyond salvation, but in my heart I want nothing more than to return to God.
When I started out learning scripture I got the wrong idea of salvation, preachers commonly preach on:
- Once Saved Always Saved - LIES
- Works are nothing, faith is everything - LIES
- God forgives ALL sin, no matter how many - LIES
Now many here will agree with some, if not all them statements. But I challenge you, as I feel they are scripture that has been sinisterly twisted over the years.
By believing these doctrines I developed an attitude that no matter what I did, I was saved and all I had to do was believe that God raised Jesus from the dead (which I did). This led me to think I could get away with enjoying the "passing pleasures" of sin. As a result, I have backslidden and tremble at the thought of if I have "fallen away".
The Bible clearly states:
'but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.' - Matthew 24:13
'In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.' - James 2:17
'If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,' - Hebrews 10:26
'It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.' - Hebrews 6:4-6
'And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.' - Luke 12:10
I want to come back to God, to feel that passion that I had some time ago. False doctrine like above has helped cause me to stumble, along with my own foolishness. Please, if you have any advice for me or want to chat about the above doctrines, please leave a comment.
God bless you all.
Jacob
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