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That can't be because Jesus Himself said the sheep can only come to the shepherd as the father draws them. You seem to want to disconnect everything to make a single point?
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
You've introduced a non-existent category: lost sheep that won't be saved. I'd like to see some biblical evidence for that.
Right in front of your eyes...the sheep that DON'T enter by the gate.
Of course I'm sure you know all the other verses that exist as well.
There's nothing in that text, or any text, that say that sheep don't enter. Or that there are sheep that won't be saved. But if you're right, providing a couple of passages shouldn't be a problem.
It appears you are confusing God's people as a whole with what I was saying. Jesus' immediate audience were Jews. So there understanding of sheep would have been to understand them as God's people. Of course we learn from Paul that they had a misunderstanding of who God's people were. And Jesus even affirmed that He had other sheep.
To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. (John 10:3 NASB)
I don't see "Father" or "draws" in there.
v37, are the sheep. v36 are not the sheep.
Jesus says ALL that God gives Him comes to Him, that means saved. For proof, v39, God's will is none are lost, v40 all the sheep believe in Christ and all of them have eternal life.
God gives them to Jesus and they have eternal life. If God did not give them to Jesus they would not have eternal life. So they are elected to eternal life, predestined to be Christs..
It says whoever...that is not all. Seems you want your cake and to eat it as well? To use your tact, WHERE odes it say ALL sheep enter and ALL sheep are saved?
Nope...just trying to keep it simple and clear within the context and confines of the scripture we were discussing. Please try to minimize the rabbit trails.
You've introduced a non-existent category: lost sheep that won't be saved. I'd like to see some biblical evidence for that.
Well that's either sad or doubtful. Who is the doorkeeper? Who draws people to Jesus?
No rabbit trails. But I'll reiterate since you ignored the point I was making.
Jesus' immediate audience were Jews. So there understanding of sheep would have been to understand them as God's people. Of course we learn from Paul that they had a misunderstanding of who God's people were. And Jesus even affirmed that He had other sheep.
Really? You don't believe there are lost sheep? ALL sheep are saved even though the Bible tells us there are lost sheep?
I'd like to see some biblical evidence for that, because John 10 sure doesn't convey that message.
Yes their understanding would have been that those sheep that were not His were lost and needed to come to Him as he was teaching. They understood Jesus was equating ALL Jews to being lost sheep and those who were in His fold as saved. The would have also understood that the OTHER sheep not of that fold were Gentiles.
I did, now it's your turn.
Did Jesus come to save the list sheep? Yes. I, personally, think He's a Good Shepherd who succeeds. But you claim there's evidence that there are some sheep who won't be saved. I'd line to see that.
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