Turkey State of oppression - Caner Bro's

I think the Caners were born in america and had a christian mother. Not that that means anything, but I am always suspicious of former anythings who have a vendeta against their former religion.

I choose not to attack christianity, although I obviously had problems with it, but I don't go around saying it is evil and of satan (well, only in sarcasm).

My dearest Ibo,

I feel your frustration and anger. Don't let your emotions to control you. Let me kindly address some of the issues in your post. Please consider...

http://www.inminds.com/boycott-israel.html
This shows the state of how muslims are treated in turkey

Click to expand...

See when you post a website like this, it will do nothing but create animosity between Israelis and muslims. Don't you think? We don't want anymore animosity, do we? We want peace and the war in Palestine over. We need to join those arabs and jews who want to live together without war in the region. Have you asked yourself, do I love any jew like I love my muslim brethren?

While I couldn't find the part you are talking about, I would like to add that Christians are not getting any better treatment in Turkey either, it is just like Rahma said about Egypt. But I am speaking from my experience, muslims are more free to practice their faith in Turkey. Well since the country is secular, anything against the government, islamic, communist, leftist you name it, is not being tolerated.

and how men like the caner brothers would not love yet hate Islam because you are not literally allowed to learn Islam fully or practice it correctly or in public.

Click to expand...

See Ibo, loving islam (which is a belief system, ideology, life style etc) and loving muslims (the people) are different IMO. I haven't heard either Ergun or Emir saying that they hate islam. They love muslims more than anything you could imagine, otherwise they would not be in muslim ministry. I suspect you are still learning about Islam, and finds any kind of criticism about islam hard to cope with, in the passion of your "new faith". It is understandable and commendable. But don't get upset with people, if you had read Robert Morey, I think you would cry for a week...

I think the Caners were born in america and had a christian mother. Not that that means anything, but I am always suspicious of former anythings who have a vendeta against their former religion.

Click to expand...

Ergun was born in Sweden and Emir was born in the States to a muezzin father very devout muslim. They are the first ones to become Christians in the family. Ergun was the first in 1982, later Emir followed. Others in the family came much later. I do believe that you are right about your suspicions, there are cases like that, but this is hardly the case, they were indeed devout muslims and I don't think they have a vendetta.

Here you can see Ergun (the little blond boy) with their father...

Bushmaster said:

While I couldn't find the part you are talking about, I would like to add that Christians are not getting any better treatment in Turkey either, it is just like

Click to expand...

Hm, that's strange. I heard from one man who is living in Turkey now that in the past three years people have been getting a lot more freedoms than they used to, and that it is getting a lot better over there.

In some parts, that is correct, depends on local providence govnt too, but towards both religions there have been limitations. I don't know myself of any Christian to raise an issue to make the Turkish constitution "Christian" but there are a lot of concerns about Turkey going back to its roots, Ottoman islamic state, they don't want this, and jail those who openly preach it.

Bushmaster said:

In some parts, that is correct, depends on local providence govnt too, but towards both religions there have been limitations. I don't know myself of any Christian to raise an issue to make the Turkish constitution "Christian" but there are a lot of concerns about Turkey going back to its roots, Ottoman islamic state, they don't want this, and jail those who openly preach it.

Click to expand...

But is that necessarily a bad thing, that both religions are limited? It depends on how they are limited and how much power they both had before the limitations. I don't think that Turkey should have either a Christian or an Islamic constitution, although I suppose if it were done right both would work.

And I'm not one of those "You can't be religious anywhere outside of your church/mosque/synagogue/temple and religion must be banned from every facet of public life" type guys, so please don't misunderstand me or anything.

Gilgamesh said:

But is that necessarily a bad thing, that both religions are limited?

Click to expand...

I have no idea, I mean I have never lived in a state governed by religious rules, constitution. I can't really tell if it is a bad thing or a good thing. I would want that in all areas that people are tolerant to eachother's faith.

I don't think that Turkey should have either a Christian or an Islamic constitution

Click to expand...

I agree, people should be free to choose anything but leace the state as it is.

please don't misunderstand me or anything.

Click to expand...

Nope, I am very much like you in many aspects, only I do believe that Jesus is the way, you haven't made any decision yet, that is our difference. If I indeed follow what Jesus teach, there would not be any problems here discussing with anyone.

I understand your points, you are right in your concerns, while I don't agree with some of them, I hope that you'd understand, I suggest buying their books and if you will, just challenge him about their "wrongs" I am sure you are able to do it, you are an educated man.

Awesome decision, we will be eagerly waiting for the official debates of both sides. Best wishes in your formal education. I hope that you will have good time discussing things with Caners as you discuss things here, peacefully and agree to disagree. Some muslims on the internet sadly, attack the authors instead of their ideas...

frankly who takes you seriously without a formal credibility?

Click to expand...

They should, because you are seeking responses. Some Christian researchers, theologians whatnot require formal education to even discuss, whatever, can't the muslim just ask a question??? This I don't understand...

But yes get your education, you can ask your questions more properly and in context.

Best Wishes...

I was reading your responses again and for example this would be a perfect question to ask them;

They converted to Christ before they could really learn their own religion, they may be well learned in the religion of Christianity but it is also clear they are uneducated in Islam.