Truth

timothyu · Aug 14, 2025

essentialsaltes said:
Truth is that which is in accord with the reality you do live in, not fantasies about the reality you want to live in.

Jesus said truth only comes from the Father and neither live in this reality. Man’s reality on the other hand is built upon selfishness and self interest . Enjoy if that is what is your thing

essentialsaltes · Aug 14, 2025

timothyu said:
Jesus said truth only comes from the Father and neither live in this reality

Such 'religious truths' are the kinds of statements that are not likely to be objectively either true or false.

Akita Suggagaki · Aug 14, 2025

BeckyJ said:
In your opinion is truth objective or subjective?

- Objective truth is generally defined as a statement that corresponds to reality, independent of personal feelings, opinions, or biases.
- Subjective truth is influenced by personal beliefs, feelings, or perspectives.

There is only objective truth. "Subjective truth" is an inaccurate term that should be rephrased as "perspective" or conclusions based on perspective.

childeye 2 · Aug 14, 2025

timothyu said:
Again man adding their own truth. It means anointed one. One appointed to bring the Gospel of the Kingdom which mankind including Christians chose to ignore because it convicts us all and of course we don’t wish to repent/change

"The Christ", "Anointed one" or "Messiah" means/conveys ---> The true image of God sent by God, the knowledge of God's Person.

Romans 1
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Colossians 1:14-16

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or
principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Matthew 16

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

timothyu · Aug 14, 2025

childeye 2 said:
The true image of God sent by God,

Of course. His Will, not ours

childeye 2 · Aug 14, 2025

timothyu said:
Of course. His Will, not ours

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

timothyu said:
Again man adding their own truth. It means anointed one. One appointed to bring the Gospel of the Kingdom which mankind including Christians chose to ignore because it convicts us all and of course we don’t wish to repent/change

My testimony is that conviction means to be convinced of one's own sin by the inner voice of The Holy Spirit dwelling within, and that this conviction brings forth a sincere sorrow and a true repentance. In other words if a person does not repent they have yet to be convinced and have not fully been convicted inwardly by the Holy Spirit.

timothyu · Aug 14, 2025

childeye 2 said:
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Yes the message from the Father, His only Gospel

Maria Billingsley · Aug 15, 2025

BeckyJ said:
In your opinion is truth objective or subjective?

- Objective truth is generally defined as a statement that corresponds to reality, independent of personal feelings, opinions, or biases.
- Subjective truth is influenced by personal beliefs, feelings, or perspectives.

Pure truth is non- negotiable and honesty, it does not fit in either category because it stands apart from human understanding and interpretation which is not pure. So sorry can't really say.
Blessings

Aaron112 · Aug 15, 2025

BeckyJ said:
In your opinion is truth objective or subjective?

- Objective truth is generally defined as a statement that corresponds to reality, independent of personal feelings, opinions, or biases.
- Subjective truth is influenced by personal beliefs, feelings, or perspectives.

According to truth, truth is unchanging.
According to opinions, everything is potentially changing.

Aaron112 · Aug 15, 2025

childeye 2 said:
Jesus answered

childeye 2 said:
and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:

childeye 2 said:
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee,

childeye 2 said:
but my Father which is in heaven.

Aaron112 · Aug 15, 2025

timothyu said:
Jesus clearly states that truth only.comes from the Father ...

2PhiloVoid · Aug 15, 2025

BeckyJ said:
In your opinion is truth objective or subjective?

- Objective truth is generally defined as a statement that corresponds to reality, independent of personal feelings, opinions, or biases.
- Subjective truth is influenced by personal beliefs, feelings, or perspectives.

Is "truth" objective or subjective?

Well, if someone here can tell me which denotative position on the concept of 'Truth' in the article linked below is the Absolute one by which we should conceptualize our world and thereby use language to describe it, then I think I can answer this question:

Truth | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

iep.utm.edu

Pepperdoodle · Aug 15, 2025

2PhiloVoid said:
Is "truth" objective or subjective?

Well, if someone here can tell me which denotative position on the concept of 'Truth' in the article linked below is the Absolute one by which we should conceptualize our world and thereby use language to describe it, then I think I can answer this question:

Truth | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

iep.utm.edu

Ah, a worldly view of what is or isn't truth.
"The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (IEP) (ISSN 2161-0002) was founded in 1995 to provide open access to detailed, scholarly, peer-reviewed information on key topics and philosophers in all areas of philosophy written by philosophers from a wide variety of countries."
LOL, no thanks.
Maybe someone else will jump on that train ️

2PhiloVoid · Aug 15, 2025

BeckyJ said:
Ah, a worldly view of what is or isn't truth.
"The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (IEP) (ISSN 2161-0002) was founded in 1995 to provide open access to detailed, scholarly, peer-reviewed information on key topics and philosophers in all areas of philosophy written by philosophers from a wide variety of countries."
LOL, no thanks.
Maybe someone else will jump on that train ️

You're welcome to a simplistic view on truth and Truth if you so choose to remain there.

public hermit · Aug 15, 2025

BeckyJ said:
Ah, a worldly view of what is or isn't truth.
"The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (IEP) (ISSN 2161-0002) was founded in 1995 to provide open access to detailed, scholarly, peer-reviewed information on key topics and philosophers in all areas of philosophy written by philosophers from a wide variety of countries."
LOL, no thanks.
Maybe someone else will jump on that train ️

There are several views in the article and some have been around for centuries. It's a helpful read for anyone interested in truth, and gives some nuance to the strict subjective/objective distinction. I would guess you would favor some form of correspondence theory of truth, and I think @essentialsaltes does, too, from what is stated above. I think that's right, but it's limited. I think it's a question as to how much access we have to what is objective. And we can believe things are true for non-epistemic reasons.

We can hold certain things to be true for reasons that are pragmatic and not necessarily based in what seems to correspond to the evidence. For instance, people might assume the best of their close friend when sometimes the evidence points in a different direction. Imagine they are accused of a crime. Despite all the evidence, they know the truth of their friend's character (Jim Bob wouldn't do that in a million years- the pragmatic value of being loyal to the friend we know being a strong motivator), and that understanding and loyalty works as a defeater for the evidence. And, who knows, perhaps they're right. We can believe things are true that are not grounded in some correspondence, but are pragmatically worth believing are true. The old example, if I am sick and it doesn't look good, but I believe I will get better. That belief is actually better for my goal of health and could become true in terms of corresponding with the facts, i.e. I do get better. But future truths are tricky in a way straight propositions without a time element are not.

More generally, I don't think one can make a strict distinction between subject and objective in terms of our own beliefs/knowledge. We can say there is a a hard and fast reality, i.e., the way things are, but it's a huge question as to how much access we have to that reality. Obviously, we have some access because we do things and they work, but that is grounded in the pragmatic value of being able to navigate this reality not in our observation that what we believe also corresponds with the way things are. We don't have that kind of third person perspective to know. More than one set of propositions can match any given claim, and that leaves room for doubt.

Pepperdoodle · Aug 15, 2025

2PhiloVoid said:
You're welcome to a simplistic view on truth and Truth if you so choose to remain there.

It's not simplistic to not embrace worldly philosophy.
To some philosophy is more religion like to them, you're welcome to embrace it, turn to it, lean on it all ya want.
It's not simplistic to not embrace the world's view of truth.
To some their truth is more religion like to them, you're welcome to embrace it, turn to it, lean on it all ya want.
It is simplistic though to embrace worldly philosophy and worldly truth.

Since I'm new to this Christian forum and have only interacted with you briefly, what denomination, if any, are you?

2PhiloVoid · Aug 15, 2025

BeckyJ said:
It's not simplistic to not embrace worldly philosophy.

Perhaps not. It might even be exemplary on your part to refrain from formal philosophy. On the other hand, having "zeal for the Lord" isn't exactly a litmus test for Christian orthodoxy either. And we all know that occasional Christian who has zeal without knowledge. It unfortunately does happen from time to time.

BeckyJ said:
To some philosophy is more religion like to them, you're welcome to embrace it, turn to it, lean on it all ya want.
It's not simplistic to not embrace the world's view of truth.
To some their truth is more religion like to them, you're welcome to embrace it, turn to it, lean on it all ya want.
It is simplistic though to embrace worldly philosophy and worldly truth.

Philosophy is a wide range of fields and activities of cognitive discernment. It's also not a synonym for either "ideology" or "worldview." It can merely be one of a number of positions or methods in the application of Critical Thinking. As it goes, a person---any person---usually applies themselves (or herself) philosophically to acts of discernment each and every day, whether they (or she) are professional philosophers or not, and whether they're Christians or not. It's universal and we all do it on some level.

In fact, you've begun two philosophical threads here on CF since yesterday here in this Ethics forum (and as we all should know, Ethics is one of the subdivisions of the field of Philosophy). But I won't assume I can know what either your overall philosophy, theology or worldview is simply by that fact of you having begun these threads.

And who knows? You and I might even find we're in agreement about some things here and there.

BeckyJ said:
Since I'm new to this Christian forum and have only interacted with you briefly, what denomination, if any, are you?

For want of a better word, I'm inter-denominational. But during my lifetime I've hailed from Presbyterian U.S.A. congregations, Southern Baptist Churches and Christian Churches.

What is your denomination, if I may ask, sister Becky?

timf · Aug 16, 2025

Here is an interesting article (albeit from a political application) that bears on truth.

It is not an uncommon argument for a wife to complain to her husband, “You never talk to me”. To which the husband might respond, “What do you think we are doing now”. To analyze this exchange we might see the same language used for two different purposes. For the wife, language is used to express how she feels. For the husband language is used factually. Sadly, the husband often fails to recognize that it is up to him to translate his wife’s distress and take steps to verbally connect with her.

In the example above, both parties were speaking truth but in different ways. Using the example of when a liberal accuses Trump of being Hitler, we find a greater distortion of language than just expressing emotional distress. The basic problem is a different view of truth. One can see truth as an absolute and unchangeable description of reality. However, liberals often see truth as relativistic and more fluid. A flexible truth in support of what one wants or how one feels can be much more useful.

Another component to factor in understanding the trouble liberals have with truth can be found with the word “hypocrisy”. Derived from the Greek meaning to “speak from under a mask”, we tend to think of the word as intentional deception such as the actors art. However, the warning Jesus gave his disciples about this touches a more profound aspect, that of self-deception. This may be more similar to an actor who “gets lost in his part”. In the Seinfeld TV show George Costanza attempting to condense his expertise in lying tells Jerry, “It’s not a lie if you believe it”.

We are all born helpless, ignorant, and selfish. We rely on our parents to help us learn to see truth, develop self-discipline, and navigate a potentially hostile world. Liberals are like children who never learned to see truth or have regressed to a childish state. One can see the appeal of the irrational to a child. For example, the prospect of unlimited ice cream might induce a child to agree with anything. Similarly, the appeal of communism (when presented as “everyone can have everything all the time”) has a strong appeal.

Perhaps Jesus warned his disciples against self-deception because it is a prison that one seldom escapes. Without the ability or desire to see truth no amount of failure can put a dent into utopian dreams. Liberals lie because it helps them get what they want and makes them feel good. In the artifical world their childish imagination has created this is as real and true as unicorns, free beer, forgiven student debt, endless government borrowing, and unrestrained sensual indulgences. Those who would threaten this world are enemies that need to be destroyed.

2PhiloVoid · Aug 16, 2025

timf said:
Here is an interesting article (albeit from a political application) that bears on truth.

It is not an uncommon argument for a wife to complain to her husband, “You never talk to me”. To which the husband might respond, “What do you think we are doing now”. To analyze this exchange we might see the same language used for two different purposes. For the wife, language is used to express how she feels. For the husband language is used factually. Sadly, the husband often fails to recognize that it is up to him to translate his wife’s distress and take steps to verbally connect with her.

In the example above, both parties were speaking truth but in different ways. Using the example of when a liberal accuses Trump of being Hitler, we find a greater distortion of language than just expressing emotional distress. The basic problem is a different view of truth. One can see truth as an absolute and unchangeable description of reality. However, liberals often see truth as relativistic and more fluid. A flexible truth in support of what one wants or how one feels can be much more useful.

Another component to factor in understanding the trouble liberals have with truth can be found with the word “hypocrisy”. Derived from the Greek meaning to “speak from under a mask”, we tend to think of the word as intentional deception such as the actors art. However, the warning Jesus gave his disciples about this touches a more profound aspect, that of self-deception. This may be more similar to an actor who “gets lost in his part”. In the Seinfeld TV show George Costanza attempting to condense his expertise in lying tells Jerry, “It’s not a lie if you believe it”.

We are all born helpless, ignorant, and selfish. We rely on our parents to help us learn to see truth, develop self-discipline, and navigate a potentially hostile world. Liberals are like children who never learned to see truth or have regressed to a childish state. One can see the appeal of the irrational to a child. For example, the prospect of unlimited ice cream might induce a child to agree with anything. Similarly, the appeal of communism (when presented as “everyone can have everything all the time”) has a strong appeal.

Perhaps Jesus warned his disciples against self-deception because it is a prison that one seldom escapes. Without the ability or desire to see truth no amount of failure can put a dent into utopian dreams. Liberals lie because it helps them get what they want and makes them feel good. In the artifical world their childish imagination has created this is as real and true as unicorns, free beer, forgiven student debt, endless government borrowing, and unrestrained sensual indulgences. Those who would threaten this world are enemies that need to be destroyed.

Who wrote this, may I ask?

timf · Aug 16, 2025

It is from the blog archive on;

Christian Pioneer - Blog achive

Christian Pioneer - Blog Atchive

christianpioneer.com

Truth

Well-Known Member

Fact-Based Lifeform

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Colossians 1:14-16​

​

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:​

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Cutting the ties that bind!

Active Member

Cutting the ties that bind!

social troglodyte

Active Member

Cutting the ties that bind!

Regular Member

Cutting the ties that bind!

Regular Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency

Colossians 1:14-16

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: