"Trusting" God...

[HuntingMan]

Discussion in another thread has me wondering what folks believe 'trust' in God actually is.

The issue in the other thread is that my 'trust' in God comes into question because I believe that *I* have the responsibility to protect my wife and/or children from predators (frankly I believe ALL adults should protect ANY child they see being hurt, period).

So I guess Im not 'trusting' God for my childs or wifes safety if I take it upon myself to do the protecting where I am able.

But lets take this to other areas and see if this works.

I 'trust' God to feed my kids so I dont have to get a job and provide for them.
I 'trust' God to take care of my rent, utilities, gas for my car, food, etc so I dont need to worry about getting those things paid for.
I 'trust' God when Im driving my car, so I dont need to worry about a seat belt.
I 'trust' God that that lump in my wifes breast isnt cancer (which did happen) so we dont need to go get it looked at.
I trust God will get me around in my car even tho my tires are bald, so I dont need to worry about a spare or buying new ones.

I could add ten thousand more things to this list Im very sure, but I dont think theres much point.

Does 'trusting' God RELIEVE a man from PROVIDING for his family ?
I mean, WHAT did Jesus say ?
Did He not CLEARLY tell us NOT to worry about it ?

"Because of this I say to you, do not worry about your life--what you shall eat, or what you shall drink--nor about your body, what you shall put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?
Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap, nor do they gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth more than they?

Which of you by worrying is able to add one cubit to his stature? So why do you worry about clothes? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither labor, nor spin; and yet I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed like one of these.
But if God thus clothes the grass of the field, which exists today, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we put on?' "For after all these things the Gentiles seek.
For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own affairs. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
(Mat 6:25-34 EMTV)

I mean..*IF* we're going to claim that we are to 'trust' God and that 'trusting' God means "TAKE NO ACTION IN THE MATTER"...then doesnt that mean that the above would show that I dont need to work to provide for my family?

Of course not.
We ARE to trust God. That is the point of our Lords words above.
And part of that trust in Him is that when WE are taking on the responsibility that WE have as husbands and wives...as fathers and mothers....as HUMAN beings that GOD created....as we DO as we should do then we can trust Him to do what He does.

*IF*, however, someone goes ahead and drives without a seatbelt, its their OWN fault for being thrown from the car.
If they WONT work when they are able then they CANNOT expect GOD to just sprinkle food and gas money down from heaven.

WE have responsibilities. To our spouses, to our children, to our parents and families...to our fellow man.
The injured Samaritan on the road could have been left to 'trust' in God, but he wasnt. Jesus shows that we OUGHT to help the man...to take ACTION...to put our faith INTO action.
God CAN feed the hungry...but its often done THRU natural channels.
God CAN protect a child...but many times its thru the ACTIONS of an adult.


My belief is that its nothing but a cop out and an excuse to sit back and do NOTHING claiming to be waiting or trusting in God when one CAN act in a matter. WE may BE the tool that GOD was going to use to deal with the issue, but we're so busy sitting back claiming to trust Him that we dont move an inch waiting on some miracle.

It reminds me of that story we've all heard about the guy sitting on his roof in a flood waiting on God to save him...turns down a couple rides out then dies and then in heaven wants to know why GOD didnt save him....

'trusting' God means many times we 'trust' Him enough to ACT.

 

[Bellicus]

What kept me away from Christianity when i were a kid, I think got a lot to do with my grandmother that got breast-cancer. She trusted that God would remove it, but she started to rot away, and when she finally went to see a doctor it was too late and she died some time later. So "trusting God" killed her. If she had just used the free Norwegian medical care, maybe she would still be alive today.

I've seen people mentioning the story about the guy sitting on the roof waiting for God to save him, by many people here, and I'm starting to feel touched by this. Cause I am waiting for God to save me in many things myself, but I never see anything of this help. I got a triple psychiatric diagnosis and don't have to work, but I know I could do something more useful, other then just sit here and watch life slide away. I got many skills that I never use. I can paint beautiful landscapes and draw life-like portraits, but I don't do this. Haven't done this in years. I got a relationship falling apart, but I don't do anything about it. I should meet other Christians, don't have someone to go with, but I could just find someone to go with or I could go alone. I am lonely, but there is people I haven't contacted in years that probably would be happy to meet me again. Instead I let all my fears rule me, hoping that God will bring me a easy solution.

So I agree with what you are saying here. There are things we need to do, we should not expect God to do them for us, but trust that he is with us trough it.

 

[HuntingMan]

What kept me away from Christianity when i were a kid, I think got a lot to do with my grandmother that got breast-cancer. She trusted that God would remove it, but she started to rot away, and when she finally went to see a doctor it was too late and she died some time later. So "trusting God" killed her. If she had just used the free Norwegian medical care, maybe she would still be alive today.

I am so sorry, Bellicus.

I know the horror Laura felt with that lump in there and the pain that was in my own heart just seeing the fear in this young woman. Christian or not, dying young is a pretty scary thing to think about.
Hers turned out to be Fibroadenoma, non cancerous, but by the time we got to testing it if it had been cancer she probably would have died.

You guys have a free system there too ?
We watched that move 'Sicko' about health care and it seems to me that the USA is one of the worst places to live in that regard.
HAd I not known how to handle our system here and been willing to do so, Laura would still have that lump in her breast because we have no health insurance and make too much money when we married to get public assistance to pay for it.
The first thing they asked when we went to get the testing done was about insurance.

 

[Tavita]

I am so sorry, Bellicus.

I know the horror Laura felt with that lump in there and the pain that was in my own heart just seeing the fear in this young woman. Christian or not, dying young is a pretty scary thing to think about.
Hers turned out to be Fibroadenoma, non cancerous, but by the time we got to testing it if it had been cancer she probably would have died.

You guys have a free system there too ?
We watched that move 'Sicko' about health care and it seems to me that the USA is one of the worst places to live in that regard.
HAd I not known how to handle our system here and been willing to do so, Laura would still have that lump in her breast because we have no health insurance and make too much money when we married to get public assistance to pay for it.
The first thing they asked when we went to get the testing done was about insurance.

I believe a man has the responsibility to protect his family, even if that means hurting or killing someone for trying to kill his own. He also has the responsibility to not kill if he can possibly help it, or lay down his own life. But we never know how we're going to handle a situation until it happens, and then to respond as best we can with the Spirit within to lead us in that situation.

As to health care.. we have a free public system of healthcare too. If you can't afford to pay it's either free or you pay just a small token amount. I'm living in the States at the moment waiting for my permanent visa and I have no health insurance. When I go back to Oz in Sept for a vacation I'll get heaps of tests done... for free. But as soon as I get the permanent visa here I'll have to get insurance of some kind. I find the system here to be absolutely terrible! It's almost third world, and I think the US should put a system in place like Britain, Canada and Australia. All those who pay tax have to pay a 3% levy towards the system, which supports those in welfare, etc. But the money has to come from somewhere. Anyways.. those are a few of my thoughts on it...

 

[Bellicus]

I think taxes is the clue here yes, Norwegians pay crazy amounts of tax, like my father that works in the oil-industry pay something like 40% just in taxes i think, but for this we get the advantage of always getting help if we are sick and none of us have to live without a home or without food. If I get some problems, like if I run out of money a month, then I can just go to a public office and get a check within a few hours. This is a right I have. And if I like hurt my foot and have problems walking, then the government buys me a car. Or if I suffer from something like asthma or something similar and would feel better from a warmer climate, then the government gives vacations. So higher taxes = more safety for everyone. Less taxes is good just for each individual, unless the individual runs into unforeseen trouble.

 

[Tavita]

I think taxes is the clue here yes, Norwegians pay crazy amounts of tax, like my father that works in the oil-industry pay something like 40% just in taxes i think, but for this we get the advantage of always getting help if we are sick and none of us have to live without a home or without food. If I get some problems, like if I run out of money a month, then I can just go to a public office and get a check within a few hours. This is a right I have. And if I like hurt my foot and have problems walking, then the government buys me a car. Or if I suffer from something like asthma or something similar and would feel better from a warmer climate, then the government gives vacations. So higher taxes = more safety for everyone. Less taxes is good just for each individual, unless the individual runs into unforeseen trouble.

Wow! Your system sounds even better than ours! We pay high taxes too, but we don't get vacations if we have asthma, or cars if we can't walk.. I would gladly pay higher taxes to get these sorts of benefits.. even if I didn't personally get them.. we need to look after our communities and those less fortunate. The trouble with Aussie's is we complain about having to support the less fortunate and those who can't work, and I think it's a crying shame...

 

[xcrunner71]

Trust is a word that has more meanings than this world can contain. Keep your faith in God and you will trust him.

 

[Hammster]

Meanwhile, back at the OP....

Trusting in the biblical sense means to believe. It means to believe in the Lord for salvation. To use it in another sense, i.e. that God provides everything and we don't have to do anything, is not a biblical use of the word. God is the only one who can and does provide salvation.

Can we count on God to provide for us in other ways? Yes, but there are means in which He accomplishes this. So please, protect your family at all costs. A lot more could be said, but that is the point.

 

[Bellicus]

The trouble with Aussie's is we complain about having to support the less fortunate and those who can't work, and I think it's a crying shame...

Same thing here. Those that don't work are considered to be leeches, and everyone look down on them. If someone are sick, they are just lazy. I feel really guilty about it myself. I have to use Lithium to not having a mind like a roller-coaster, and Valium if I plan to move outside the door. When I used to work I would get hallucinations, like if I were working too hard I would see a swirling tunnel in front of me and people around me would look like plastic dolls, just far, far away. But still my father that is a sturdy Norwegian worker says that I should start working and don't seem to be very convinced that I am anything else then just a lazy boy that just need a kick in the ass. So I'm planning to start doing some volunteer stuff just to not feel so guilty about it.

 

[HuntingMan]

I believe a man has the responsibility to protect his family, even if that means hurting or killing someone for trying to kill his own. He also has the responsibility to not kill if he can possibly help it, or lay down his own life. But we never know how we're going to handle a situation until it happens, and then to respond as best we can with the Spirit within to lead us in that situation.

As to health care.. we have a free public system of healthcare too. If you can't afford to pay it's either free or you pay just a small token amount. I'm living in the States at the moment waiting for my permanent visa and I have no health insurance. When I go back to Oz in Sept for a vacation I'll get heaps of tests done... for free. But as soon as I get the permanent visa here I'll have to get insurance of some kind. I find the system here to be absolutely terrible! It's almost third world, and I think the US should put a system in place like Britain, Canada and Australia. All those who pay tax have to pay a 3% levy towards the system, which supports those in welfare, etc. But the money has to come from somewhere. Anyways.. those are a few of my thoughts on it...

See, we do agree on some things

From what Laura and could tell, the USA is probably one of the worst civilized countries to live in for health care as far as getting it paid for and not losing everything you own if you end up with some lifetime disorder.
I love my country, but frankly it stinks for someone who needs medical care a lot of the time.

 

[Hammster]

I would say that it isn't a problem of the government, but of the Church because we, sometime in the past (think Great Society) relegated taking care of the poor to the government. And the government cannot do things effectively.

 

[OllieFranz]

Discussion in another thread has me wondering what folks believe 'trust' in God actually is.

The issue in the other thread is that my 'trust' in God comes into question because I believe that *I* have the responsibility to protect my wife and/or children from predators (frankly I believe ALL adults should protect ANY child they see being hurt, period).

So I guess Im not 'trusting' God for my childs or wifes safety if I take it upon myself to do the protecting where I am able.

But lets take this to other areas and see if this works.



I 'trust' God to feed my kids so I dont have to get a job and provide for them.
I 'trust' God to take care of my rent, utilities, gas for my car, food, etc so I dont need to worry about getting those things paid for.
I 'trust' God when Im driving my car, so I dont need to worry about a seat belt.
I 'trust' God that that lump in my wifes breast isnt cancer (which did happen) so we dont need to go get it looked at.
I trust God will get me around in my car even tho my tires are bald, so I dont need to worry about a spare or buying new ones.

I could add ten thousand more things to this list Im very sure, but I dont think theres much point.

Does 'trusting' God RELIEVE a man from PROVIDING for his family ?
I mean, WHAT did Jesus say ?
Did He not CLEARLY tell us NOT to worry about it ?

I mean..*IF* we're going to claim that we are to 'trust' God and that 'trusting' God means "TAKE NO ACTION IN THE MATTER"...then doesnt that mean that the above would show that I dont need to work to provide for my family?

Of course not.
We ARE to trust God. That is the point of our Lords words above.
And part of that trust in Him is that when WE are taking on the responsibility that WE have as husbands and wives...as fathers and mothers....as HUMAN beings that GOD created....as we DO as we should do then we can trust Him to do what He does.

*IF*, however, someone goes ahead and drives without a seatbelt, its their OWN fault for being thrown from the car.
If they WONT work when they are able then they CANNOT expect GOD to just sprinkle food and gas money down from heaven.

WE have responsibilities. To our spouses, to our children, to our parents and families...to our fellow man.
The injured Samaritan on the road could have been left to 'trust' in God, but he wasnt. Jesus shows that we OUGHT to help the man...to take ACTION...to put our faith INTO action.
God CAN feed the hungry...but its often done THRU natural channels.
God CAN protect a child...but many times its thru the ACTIONS of an adult.


My belief is that its nothing but a cop out and an excuse to sit back and do NOTHING claiming to be waiting or trusting in God when one CAN act in a matter. WE may BE the tool that GOD was going to use to deal with the issue, but we're so busy sitting back claiming to trust Him that we dont move an inch waiting on some miracle.

It reminds me of that story we've all heard about the guy sitting on his roof in a flood waiting on God to save him...turns down a couple rides out then dies and then in heaven wants to know why GOD didnt save him....

'trusting' God means many times we 'trust' Him enough to ACT.

I haven't read the rest of this thread, yet. But I just had to say that the OP reminds me of the old story about a man caught in a flood.

Just before the water reached his house his neighbor pulled out, offering to make room in the car if he wanted to come.

"Thank you, but I trust that God will see me safely through."

The flood waters forced him up to the second floor. The police came by in a boat and offered to take him to safety. Again he refused, citing his trust in God.

The flood kept rising. Soon he was forced up onto the roof. A state rescue helicopter came by, and he still refused. After the copter left, all he could do was watch the flood rise even higher, until he drowned.

When he asked God why He had not seen him safely through the flood, as he trusted Him to do, God answered "I sent your neighbor's car, the police boat and even a helicopter. What more did you need?"

We pray for God to use us to help further His will here on Earth. And He does. That is not arrogance or placing ourselves in God's stead, it is Himm allowing us some small manner of doing His work.

We need to recognize that although "God helps them that help themselves" is phrased a little selfishly, there is still a little bit of truth in its heart.

Edited to add:


When I said I hadn't read the rest of the thread yet, that apparently included the end of the OP. Color me embarrassed :o

 

[Tavita]

See, we do agree on some things

Yeah, I'm sure there are other things we agree on, we just haven't discussed many things yet..

I'm going to check out your marriage ministry thing and see if I agree...

 

[billwald]

We trust God for pie in the sky, by and by.

 

[Van]

Some people pray for God to save the lost. This is an ungodly prayer, it is testing God. When you ask God to do your will, such as jump off a cliff and pray, God catch me, you are testing God, but as it is written, do not test God. So how do we know the difference between testing God by saying take this lump, from trusting in God for His blessings?

First, rather than rip a verse out of context, we must live by every word of God. For example, God's word says we shall worship the Lord your God and serve him only. Thus, when we pray for God to save the lost, it should be God help me serve you as an Ambassador of Christ with the ministry of reconciliation.

When Jesus was in the garden, He prayed, "take this cup from me." But He did not test God, because He included "My Father, if it is possible, take this cup from me, yet not as I will but as you will." He prayed and prayed, recalling God's glorious word. And then He got up, and walked into the hands of His betrayer, and uttered these immortal words, "Would you not have Me drink this cup My Father has prepared for Me." God bless.

 

[Leah]

I think when it comes to trusting God, its not about Him doing everything for us. There are some things that we are responsible for doing ourselves.

For me, relationships is a big stuggle. I cannot expect people to come to me when I can go to them, too. And if there be some issues that haven't been resolved, I TRUST that God will help me in those issues and work them out with others, regardless of how much it may hurt; even if things don't work out, its ok! Why? Because He's a God who loves and who goes with you!

Trusting God is a willingness to step out and do what is right, knowing He has your back.

 

[HuntingMan]

Some people pray for God to save the lost. This is an ungodly prayer, it is testing God.

What a load ...
"take the gospel to the lost, just dont pray for their salvation"
complete nonsense.

When you ask God to do your will, such as jump off a cliff and pray, God catch me, you are testing God, but as it is written, do not test God.

PRAYING for the lost is HARDLY the same as jumping off a cliff, chap.
Where do you get this nonsense from ?

First, rather than rip a verse out of context,

Talk about ripping out of context....most of your posts clearly dont seem to grasp what context even is.

Thus, when we pray for God to save the lost, it should be God help me serve you as an Ambassador of Christ with the ministry of reconciliation.

FIRST you say to pray for God to save the lost is 'tempting' Him and 'ungodly'...then you turn around and tell us how to do it

Im probably going to put you on ignore, Van...your posts are more a distraction than anything....

 

[ShermanN]

In regards to the OP concerning Trust:

Trust basically means: reliance on the integrity, strength, ability, surety, etc., of a person or thing; confidence; to rely upon.

To trust in the Lord implies a willingness to obey and follow the directions of the one in whom we trust. To trust in the Lord does not absolve us of our responsibilities. We put our confidence in the Lord.

Unfortunately, some in the church have taken trusting in the Lord to a wrong extreme in different ways. Sadly some who use trust as a cloak for fear, lazyness, selfishness, ignorance, etc.

 

[Van]

Huntingman misrepresents other posts. Pay no attention to his posts. They are complete fabrications the product of irrational arumentation. In a word, nonsense from start to finish.

Folks, instead of asking what God can do for you, ask what you can do for God. Pretty simple concept.

 

[HuntingMan]

Folks, instead of asking what God can do for you, ask what you can do for God.

You sound like JFK
go play in someone elses thread before I contact a mod.