Trump's Two Biggest Mistakes

Ringo84 · Feb 16, 2019

It's like I said in another thread: such a coincidence that all those coffee boys who were associated with the campaign just happen to be falling under indictment and conviction for those crimes that they totally didn't commit.

Donny is either guilty of serious lapses of judgment/judgment of character or he's as corrupt as the rest of them.
Ringo

Albion · Feb 16, 2019

Halbhh said:
If Trump hired just a couple of bad actors in a big campaign....ok.

But that's not the picture.

What is? See post #15

Let me say it again. None of the criminal charges against Manafort and/or the sentencing for them involve the president. They all deal with other activities in Manaforts past.

SolomonVII · Feb 16, 2019

mark46 said:
ROFL

Conservatives would like to fire Coumo also.

I fixed it.

We can’t touch him. He is in Alexandria Ocasio Cortez country.
That’s a fight that conservatives love to watch though.
Hoping for a double knock out. Let there be blood.
... Trump is about as good as it gets for conservatives, when it comes to New York culture.
And is anyone really heartbroken over Comey getting fired?

Halbhh · Feb 16, 2019

Albion said:
Let me say it again. None of the criminal charges against Manafort and/or the sentencing for them involve the president. They all deal with other activities in Manaforts past.

It's commonly known Trump hasn't been indicted.

Albion · Feb 16, 2019

Halbhh said:
It's commonly known Trump hasn't been indicted.

Then what's the point in bringing Trump into the news about Manafort?

mark46 · Feb 16, 2019

To be blunt, US voters choose our presidents. Sometimes those in the world approve, sometimes they don't. Competence should matter to the voter. That was and is the issue. We will have our opportunity to choose another leader in 2020. The first debates are in a couple of months. Surely, the world can survive 4 years, or even 8 years, of a poor choice by the US. Trump hasn't dragged us into another war yet, although Venezuela is certainly possible. We're still in Bush's wars.

Ringo84 said:
It should matter. It's a mistake that's costing - and will continue to cost - this country its prestige on the world stage as well as domestically.
Ringo

Halbhh · Feb 16, 2019

Albion said:
Then what's the point in bringing Trump into the news about Manafort?

I was surprised. Who was Trump's campaign manager? That's the surprise. Manafort wasn't some distant underling.

Find out. (Could read link I offered above. I'm non partisan)

It's concerning that Trump ended up hiring so many law breakers, including one close lawyer, Cohen.

For years, Michael Cohen was not so much Donald Trump’s employee as his understudy.
Trump and Cohen: pair who shared special bond headed for fatal split

Who is Michael Cohen?: Some see Trump's lawyer as overzealous bully. Team Trump sees an undying loyalist

2011: Trump's 'pit bull'
Cohen led the push for Trump to make a 2012 presidential run. By that time he had earned a reputation as Trump's personal "pit bull."
From Trump fixer to federal inmate: Timeline of Michael Cohen's role in Russia probe

mark46 · Feb 16, 2019

Albion said:
Let me say it again. None of the criminal charges against Manafort and/or the sentencing for them involve the president. They all deal with other activities in Manaforts past.

Is it your position that all of the charges concern actions before he was part of the campaign? If so, I think that Mueller disagreed in his indictments, and his recommendations for sentencing.

His lying and breaking of his confidentiality agreement was directly associated with current investigations. I'm sure some believe that Manafort has NO links to Russia during the campaign and had no knowledge of the links of others. We'll continue to see, and interpret as we will.

Mueller's team says Paul Manafort deserves up to 24.5 years in prison - CNNPolitics

Manafort knew a lot about the links with Kilimnick. Manafort participated in Jr's meeting with Russians. Much of the time is for crimes in the past. However, we shouldn't try to believe that that have nothing on him during the time he worked with and for Trump.

I do agree that no one has shown any link of crimes to Trump, and it is likely the Mueller's investigation will not show any such links. It is Kushner and/or Jr who might be indicted or implicated, not Trump.

Trump's legal problems are in the NY court and in the AG's NY state efforts. And much of this is through his company, not direct involvement, although involvement in the hush money is indeed direct.

Albion · Feb 16, 2019

Halbhh said:
Do you realize who Trump's campaign manager was?

I'm stopping right there. Manafort entered the discussion in post 14 and the link given by you in that post says that Manafort is being sentenced for all sorts of things, none of which involve the president. That's all there is.

Halbhh · Feb 16, 2019

Albion said:
I'm stopping right there. Manafort entered the discussion in post 14 and the link given by you in that post says that Manafort is being sentenced for all sorts of things, none of which involve the president. That's all there is.

Ok, I'm non partisan and really neutral, and I'm not for or against Trump. I don't feel emotional about the facts about him, but only concerned as a citizen.

Doesn't Cohen and Manafort concern you also? Why did the president hire several law breakers to close, high level positions?

mark46 · Feb 16, 2019

Albion said:
I'm stopping right there. Manafort entered the discussion in post 14 and the link given by you in that post says that Manafort is being sentenced for all sorts of things, none of which involve the president. That's all there is.

The president has not been implicated in anything that Manafort has been found guilty of.

Halbhh · Feb 16, 2019

mark46 said:
The president has not been implicated in anything that Manafort has been found guilty of.

Yes, that's right. Did anyone claim Trump was indicted or such yet? If someone said something like that, then we'd need to inform them of the facts to date.

mark46 · Feb 16, 2019

I think that almost every one will stipulate that Trump is incompetent in his choices of people to work for him. Never has a president made so many poor choices in so short a period of time.

Halbhh said:
Ok, I'm non partisan and really neutral, and I'm not for or against Trump. I don't feel emotional about the facts about him, but only concerned as a citizen.

Doesn't Cohen and Manafort concern you also? Why did the president hire several law breakers to close, high level positions?

mark46 · Feb 16, 2019

Trump will not be indicted while he is president. This is policy, and it has been made clear that this policy won't be changed.

The question is whether Trump has been implicated in any of the indictments. Trump was implicated in Cohen's indictments. He is essentially an unindicted co-conspirator in the hush money payments which violated campaign laws (Cohen pled guilty to this). Trump has not yet been implicated in the Manafort's indictments, although perhaps we'll see more when the redacted material with regard to his lying to Mueller is revealed.

Halbhh said:
Yes, that's right. Did anyone claim Trump was indicted or such yet? If someone said something like that, then we'd need to inform them of the facts to date.

Halbhh · Feb 16, 2019

mark46 said:
Trump will not be indicted while he is president. This is policy, and it has been made clear that this policy won't be changed.

The question is whether Trump has been implicated in any of the indictments. Trump was implicated in Cohen's indictments. He is essentially an unindicted co-conspirator in the hush money payments which violated campaign laws (Cohen pled guilty to this). Trump has not yet been implicated in the Manafort's indictments, although perhaps we'll see more when the redacted material with regard to his lying to Mueller is revealed.

Thanks for that precise summary!

SolomonVII · Feb 16, 2019

mark46 said:
To be blunt, US voters choose our presidents. Sometimes those in the world approve, sometimes they don't. Competence should matter to the voter. That was and is the issue. We will have our opportunity to choose another leader in 2020. The first debates are in a couple of months. Surely, the world can survive 4 years, or even 8 years, of a poor choice by the US. Trump hasn't dragged us into another war yet, although Venezuela is certainly possible. We're still in Bush's wars.

That is true. Trump, or rather the American generals who are running the show, are very adept at being effective from the outside in the active theatres. It is all very technical rather than political.

As for NK, it feels safer. The NK leader's main weapon had been being seen as the crazy man of the world with nukes. Trump showed him that he was the bigger idiot on the world stage now. He in effect 'out-idioted' him.
It is funny because it is true.

Venezuela? Too bad there wasn't some kind of world movement to secure some supply routes. Maybe things will fester like that until there is a war.
Who knows.

SolomonVII · Feb 16, 2019

mark46 said:
I think that almost every one will stipulate that Trump is incompetent in his choices of people to work for him. Never has a president made so many poor choices in so short a period of time.

I think the better phrase than incompetent would be willfully obtuse to the political consequences of anything.
He is like Milie Cyrus on her wrecking ball banging into the wall of power of Washington. Hollywood hated her first, btw.

Shiloh Raven · Feb 16, 2019

Ringo84 said:
Donny is either guilty of serious lapses of judgment/judgment of character or he's as corrupt as the rest of them.
Ringo

Can it be both?

GoldenBoy89 · Feb 16, 2019

Ringo84 said:
Donny is either guilty of serious lapses of judgment/judgment of character or he's as corrupt as the rest of them.
Ringo

You are the company you keep.

USincognito · Feb 16, 2019

mark46 said:
ROFL

Conservatives would like to fire Coumo also.

I fixed it.

Andrew or Chris?

Trump's Two Biggest Mistakes

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