Trumps Trade Wars

[Zoii]

World stock markets are becoming unstable with tit-for-tat Tariffs being lobbied between the USA and the rest of the world.

Harley Davidson announces it is moving production out of the USA to avoid the Tarrifs being imposed on its exports to Europe and elsewhere.

Is this having the desired effect for the USA?
Harley-Davidson and tech stocks plunge, Wall St sinks on deepening trade war

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Gee, that whole "world trade" thing is starting to look complicated for poor old Donald. I think we'll see more US-based manufacturers moving offshore once they discover that their overseas markets are far bigger than their domestic market.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Now Trump is threatening Harley directly. yay!

Trump threatens Harley-Davidson with taxes ‘like never before’ and predicts its eventual collapse

 

[dgiharris]

World stock markets are becoming unstable with tit-for-tat Tariffs being lobbied between the USA and the rest of the world.

Harley Davidson announces it is moving production out of the USA to avoid the Tarrifs being imposed on its exports to Europe and elsewhere.

Is this having the desired effect for the USA?
Harley-Davidson and tech stocks plunge, Wall St sinks on deepening trade war

It's not so much that I have a problem with the Tariffs (which I do by the way) but moreso that I have absolutely no confidence whatsoever that any real thought or analysis went into the decisions resulting in these Tariffs and how we deal with all the different world leaders and Nations out there.

Everything seems so emotional and ego/id driven. I've lost track of the times that major MAJOR policy shifts and directives have come out of this Administration without the key players within the government even knowing about said policy shift.

TO me, it feels as if you took an angry 8th grader and made him President. I am being sincere, no hyperbole. I'm serious.

A lot of Trumpers look at this picture and they rejoice

They think "Yeah, about time we got tough" and you hear stuff like, "If they are so mad that means Trump is doing something right!!!"

Fox News and the Alt right have reduced complex political interactions into childhood games. You hear all this stuff about "gotta act tough to be respected" and other just ridiculous grade school wannabe prison rationale.

*sigh* rather than rant, I'll just end this by saying I'm disheartened, scared, and disappointed. Politics is as complex as cancer surgery. Sure, on an emotional level you want to rip out the cancer with a sharp spoon, but the reality is that it takes skill, patience, and some intelligence...

State level Politics is no different, it takes skill, patience, and intelligence. And from my perspective, we are short on all 3

 

[KCfromNC]

World stock markets are becoming unstable with tit-for-tat Tariffs being lobbied between the USA and the rest of the world.

Harley Davidson announces it is moving production out of the USA to avoid the Tarrifs being imposed on its exports to Europe and elsewhere.

Is this having the desired effect for the USA?
Harley-Davidson and tech stocks plunge, Wall St sinks on deepening trade war

If that's doesn't help, there's also this : Analysis | The first layoffs from Trump’s tariffs are here

 

[dgiharris]

If that's doesn't help, there's also this : Analysis | The first layoffs from Trump’s tariffs are here

these job losses reminds me much like the first drop of rain to hit your face right before a downpour starts

The big problem I have with arguing with Trumpers about these sorts of things is that there seems to be no thought as to what happens next.

Forget chess... lets talk basic checkers, hell, lets talk Tic-Tac-Toe

You have to ask yourself "If I move here, where will my opponent do?"

If I do "this", will he do "that"?

Trade tariffs are exactly in the same category. If we impose a "tariff" on nation X, what will Nation X do in response? I mean, are they going to do nothing?

If we were going to be "smart" about the trade tariffs, then we needed to be very very political about the whole thing. The tariffs needed to be implemented as quietly as possible and we would have had to have implemented the tariffs in such a way that we have the consent of the nation we are imposing the tariffs on. That is, we would need to do "some" sort of political concession.

Something like, "Look China, we are getting a lot of domestic heat about your labor practices. Tell you what, let us impose a 10% tariffs on your goods, we'll keep it quiet, and we will shield you from our internal politics about your labor practices..."

Or "Hey China, tell you what, let us impose this tariff and we will make it easier for our Space Industry aka Space X, to work with you and your satellite launches..."

Hey Europe, let us impose these tariffs and we will station a US military base right along the Europe Russia border in the spirit of "Nato related exercises..."

but no. We just thump our chest and announce "we are imposing Tariffs on you because ummm AMERICA FIRST BEACHES!!!!"

and we expect no retaliation???

so that is my problem, just no thought for future moves or future results. JUst an emotional "Yeah, stick it to em Mr. Trump!!!!"

MAGA!!!!!!

 

[Zoii]

these job losses reminds me much like the first drop of rain to hit your face right before a downpour starts

The big problem I have with arguing with Trumpers about these sorts of things is that there seems to be no thought as to what happens next.

Forget chess... lets talk basic checkers, hell, lets talk Tic-Tac-Toe

You have to ask yourself "If I move here, where will my opponent do?"

If I do "this", will he do "that"?

Trade tariffs are exactly in the same category. If we impose a "tariff" on nation X, what will Nation X do in response? I mean, are they going to do nothing?

If we were going to be "smart" about the trade tariffs, then we needed to be very very political about the whole thing. The tariffs needed to be implemented as quietly as possible and we would have had to have implemented the tariffs in such a way that we have the consent of the nation we are imposing the tariffs on. That is, we would need to do "some" sort of political concession.

Something like, "Look China, we are getting a lot of domestic heat about your labor practices. Tell you what, let us impose a 10% tariffs on your goods, we'll keep it quiet, and we will shield you from our internal politics about your labor practices..."

Or "Hey China, tell you what, let us impose this tariff and we will make it easier for our Space Industry aka Space X, to work with you and your satellite launches..."

Hey Europe, let us impose these tariffs and we will station a US military base right along the Europe Russia border in the spirit of "Nato related exercises..."

but no. We just thump our chest and announce "we are imposing Tariffs on you because ummm AMERICA FIRST BEACHES!!!!"

and we expect no retaliation???

so that is my problem, just no thought for future moves or future results. JUst an emotional "Yeah, stick it to em Mr. Trump!!!!"

MAGA!!!!!!

I'd have thought it actually greatly harms America. While all countries can trade with each other free of tarrifs (Except USA) the reverse is in place for the USA that will have traiffs imposed by every country it trades with.

From Australia's perspective we can see it is damaging the stock market. In terms of trade we actually have a trade deficit with the USA so a tariff on our steel was a bit nuts (which the US over-turned when we threatened retaliation). However with countries now imposing tariffs on US products, our markets have opened further as Australian goods are imported in preference to US goods which are now expensive due to the tariffs imposed.
The whole thing just doesnt make sense to me why this is an economic policy of the USA.

Lastly - this is actually very damaging to the relationships countries have with the USA. Those being hardest hit are close allies of the USA. That coupled with a decision to withdraw from climate change commitments in Paris; the withdrawal of decades long trade deals in the Asia Pacific; the withdrawal from the Iran plan; the abandoning of the Palestine-Israel peace arrangements and recognising Jerusalem as capital.... all this is starting to add up and allies are wondering - what sort of Ally is the USA really.

 

[Nithavela]

No worries, guys:

Trump doubles down: 'Trade wars are good, and easy to win'

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Now Trump is threatening Harley directly. yay!

Trump threatens Harley-Davidson with taxes ‘like never before’ and predicts its eventual collapse

Great, the POTUS is now throwing tantrums and threatening US companies. im sure other countries motorcycle manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank too.

 

[KCfromNC]

No worries, guys:

Trump doubles down: 'Trade wars are good, and easy to win'

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

 

[TLK Valentine]

Now Trump is threatening Harley directly. yay!

Trump threatens Harley-Davidson with taxes ‘like never before’ and predicts its eventual collapse

A Harley-Davidson should never be built in another country-never! Their employees and customers are already very angry at them. If they move, watch, it will be the beginning of the end - they surrendered, they quit! The Aura will be gone and they will be taxed like never before!

Question: What "aura" is Donald referring to?

 

[dgiharris]

all this is starting to add up and allies are wondering - what sort of Ally is the USA really.

Not a very smart one. Within the US, the alt right has been brainwashing the masses for Decades about how Liberals are weak and Conservatives are strong. When Obama was President, the Right was adamant about portraying everything Obama did as "weak". Obama going around the globe and merely "talking" to World Leaders was dubbed by the Right as his "Apology tour".

Therefore, now with Trump, Trump and his base have been conditioned to think that everything Obama did was wrong, therefore by simple logic, simply do the "opposite" of what Obama did and now you are "strong".

Truth is, the vast majority of what we are seeing from this Administration is simply wish fulfillment fan-boy fantasies.

Somehow over the decades, the Right has convinced its base that the US doesn't need allies, in fact, our so-called allies are ungrateful and take advantage of us.... So, there is this sentiment on the Right that seeks to "show our allies who is boss". The RIght has managed to turn our allies into our enemies as far as their base is concerned. THey have turned Trade into some contest that easily reduces down to "Winning and losing" ala the misunderstood term "Trade Deficit".

I have typed my fingers to bloody stumps on this forum trying to educate the masses that a Trade Deficit is not necessarily a bad thing and in fact it is almost impossible to trade without their being a deficit. That you can't look at trade like a football score and think "Hey, they have a surplus and we have a deficit therefore they are beating us!!!!"

It is frustrating to say the least

 

[KCfromNC]

Question: What "aura" is Donald referring to?

Couldn't pretty much every Donald tweet be summed up by "what is he even talking about?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Couldn't pretty much every Donald tweet be summed up by "what is he even talking about?

True, but I'd like to see his follower scramble to explain this one...

shockingly, all I hear are crickets.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Great, the POTUS is now throwing tantrums and threatening US companies.

We'll show all of those national security threats like Europe and Canada we mean business! We'll tax the daylights out of our own companies if that's what it takes! That will teach them to mess with The U.S.A! YOU ESS AYY!

The whole thing is ridiculous, but I think we can expect more downstream consumers of steel to take actions to lower rising costs. Of course, these will go against the purpose of tariffs, so we will have to have more threats. Eventually those threats must be made good on otherwise they will be seen as empty rhetoric and so the tariffs would lose their intended effects as downstream consumers of steel take actions to offset rising input costs.

I think we should just skip the courtship and go straight to price and capital controls and rationing. We have to do it for patriotism and national security.

 

[dgiharris]

True, but I'd like to see his follower scramble to explain this one...

shockingly, all I hear are crickets.

here is what will happen.

Economic chaos will ensue based on these tariffs. The US and world will have a net negative economic effect that hurts everyone. Then Trump will make a "deal" the more or less puts things back to the way they were before he kicked the hornet's nest. THEN Trump will claim victory and say, "See, we won the Trade War" and his followers will rejoice and rub it in the face of all those dumb Obama loving liberals...

Meanwhile the Liberals will be scratching their heads saying, "Wait a minute, this is more or less were we started with so how is this a "victory"..."

but that comment will be lost in the noise of MAGA chants coming from Trump's base who are yelling MAGA so loud that can't hear anything else....

 

[KCfromNC]

True, but I'd like to see his follower scramble to explain this one...

shockingly, all I hear are crickets.

Can I interest you in a discussion of Hillary's emails? Or perhaps Obama wearing a tan suit?

 

[Goonie]

Can I interest you in a discussion of Hillary's emails? Or perhaps Obama wearing a tan suit?

Benghazi!

 

[essentialsaltes]

Trump Says He’s ‘Ready To Go’ With $500 Billion in Tariffs on All China Imports

 

[Jack Slatts]

these job losses reminds me much like the first drop of rain to hit your face right before a downpour starts

The big problem I have with arguing with Trumpers about these sorts of things is that there seems to be no thought as to what happens next.

Forget chess... lets talk basic checkers, hell, lets talk Tic-Tac-Toe

You have to ask yourself "If I move here, where will my opponent do?"

If I do "this", will he do "that"?

Trade tariffs are exactly in the same category. If we impose a "tariff" on nation X, what will Nation X do in response? I mean, are they going to do nothing?

If we were going to be "smart" about the trade tariffs, then we needed to be very very political about the whole thing. The tariffs needed to be implemented as quietly as possible and we would have had to have implemented the tariffs in such a way that we have the consent of the nation we are imposing the tariffs on. That is, we would need to do "some" sort of political concession.

Something like, "Look China, we are getting a lot of domestic heat about your labor practices. Tell you what, let us impose a 10% tariffs on your goods, we'll keep it quiet, and we will shield you from our internal politics about your labor practices..."

Or "Hey China, tell you what, let us impose this tariff and we will make it easier for our Space Industry aka Space X, to work with you and your satellite launches..."

Hey Europe, let us impose these tariffs and we will station a US military base right along the Europe Russia border in the spirit of "Nato related exercises..."

but no. We just thump our chest and announce "we are imposing Tariffs on you because ummm AMERICA FIRST BEACHES!!!!"

and we expect no retaliation???

so that is my problem, just no thought for future moves or future results. JUst an emotional "Yeah, stick it to em Mr. Trump!!!!"

MAGA!!!!!!

From what I understand many of the President Trump's strongest supporters are older white people, ie people who are retired, and job losses don't affect them very much.

There is one poster here, a retired Christian Trump supporter, who stated it is working out well for him, and too bad for anyone else who might be suffering because he is not going to share. He then quoted the bible to justify his stance. Judging by the posts I've read, I'm sure there are many other Christian Trump supporters who share these feelings. When I read posts like these, it confirms that I made the right decision being an atheist.