Trump rejects Franklin Graham's request that he not curse in speeches

okay · Jul 1, 2024

jas3 said:
Right, because in 2016-2017 Democrats famously accepted the results of the election without claiming it was stolen and starting violent riots across the country while proclaiming that Trump was not their president.

Yes. Hilary Clinton famously claimed the election was stolen immediately after it was declared that she lost, even though there was no evidence to support that lie. Then she refused to admit to losing, lied incessantly on social media about how the election was stolen, and lied about it on TV and in-person speeches. She then led a violent insurrection to try and stop congress from ratifying the election. And four years later continued to lie about it at every turn. She successfully convinced tens of millions of citizens that her lie was true, and now many of those now repeat her lie.

Wait ... did I get my politicians mixed up?

Akita Suggagaki · Jul 1, 2024

okay said:
She then led a violent insurrection to try and stop congress from ratifying the election.

Well, we do rewrite history now. If you repeat it long enough and forcefully enough it becomes "true"ish enough for a lot of people.

jas3 · Jul 1, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
Not based on a lie. They were protests of a tragic truth.

Ah, so "it's (D)ifferent."

Vambram · Jul 1, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
There is no liar bigger than Trump. That has been proven many times.

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with that post.

Akita Suggagaki · Jul 1, 2024

Vambram said:
I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with that post.

Of course you would. He tells you what you want to hear.

Vambram · Jul 1, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
Of course you would. He tells you what you want to hear.

No. Your post is incorrect. That is NOT why I believe Joe Biden lies more often than many politicians and more often than Donald Trump. However, as I have already said, all politicians tell lies.

BPPLEE · Jul 1, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
Of course you would. He tells you what you want to hear.

Trump and Biden lie about the same percentage of the time. Trump talks a lot more than Biden so in actual numbers he’s told more lies. As a percentage of their overall speech they’re about even.

chevyontheriver · Jul 1, 2024

BNR32FAN said:
Yeah I agree, on the subject of voting for politicians the best we can do is choose the lesser of two evils.

You have more than a choice of two. You are conceding that voting for the second worst is a good thing. Most voters will do the same. The result is that we get a bad president. If we could, but we can’t, vote for a good candidate these losers would indeed lose. Few WANT to vote for Trump except to stop Biden. Few WANT to vote for Biden except to stop Trump.

chevyontheriver · Jul 2, 2024

expos4ever said:
Let's be clear then, it appears that there is no evidence that Mr Biden lies as frequently as Mr Trump.

You have descended into a defense of a liar by claiming the other guy lies more.

expos4ever said:
Misleading.

Joe Biden is a liar. You support him. That's straightforward.

expos4ever said:
If I were an American, I would be voting for Mr Biden as to me, he is clearly the "least bad" of two undesirable choices. When you characterize me as supporting a liar, you cynically misrepresent the full scope of the issues here. If I were an American, I would feel a strong ethical responsibility to keep Mr Trump out of the White House. If that means voting for a person with some history of lying, it is, to me, the clear moral choice.

How about supporting a person who doesn't lie? You make it a binary choice between two liars. If we were not so involved with defending 'our liar' against the 'other liar' we might see to chose someone else who is not a liar.

expos4ever said:
Characterizing a person who votes for Mr Biden as "supporting a liar" intentionally leaves off the table what would happen if Mr Trump is elected.

Nope. We get a liar if Trump is elected or if Biden is elected. (Biden might have an excuse because of diminished capacity though.) The thing is most people are supporting 'their liar' to stop the 'other liar'. That's lame.

expos4ever said:
The way you are framing things ignores that bigger picture.

The bigger picture is that the highly likely almost certain scenario is that we get an accomplished liar as president if your guy wins or loses. And most people are happy to vote for an accomplished liar just to stop the other liar. Am I the only guy who is unsettled by that?

BNR32FAN · Jul 2, 2024

chevyontheriver said:
You have more than a choice of two. You are conceding that voting for the second worst is a good thing. Most voters will do the same. The result is that we get a bad president. If we could, but we can’t, vote for a good candidate these losers would indeed lose. Few WANT to vote for Trump except to stop Biden. Few WANT to vote for Biden except to stop Trump.

It always comes down to two candidates, voting for anyone other than the two lead candidates is just wasting your vote.

expos4ever · Jul 2, 2024

chevyontheriver said:
You have descended into a defense of a liar by claiming the other guy lies more.

Complete nonsense. To say that one person lies more than another does does not entail any kind of a defense for the one who lies least.

expos4ever · Jul 2, 2024

chevyontheriver said:
Joe Biden is a liar. You support him. That's straightforward.

No.

Once more you collapse down a more complex issue and misrepresent my position, almost certainly intentionally. It is telling that you did not respond to my chemotherapy analogy. If I were to accuse a doctor who is administering chemotherapy as "supporting the inflicting of pain on the patient", that would be profoundly misleading precisely because in the larger context, this is the better of two choices available to the doctor. If he does not administer chemo, the patient will die.

You are engaged in the same cynical distortion here - for all practical purposes, we are at a point in time where we are forced to choose the lesser of two evils.

chevyontheriver said:
How about supporting a person who doesn't lie? You make it a binary choice between two liars.

At this point, repeat at this point, I suggest this option is unrealistic. The key moral imperative: keep Trump out of the White House. I believe the only realistic way to do this is to vote for Biden (or whatever other lying candidate they come up with under the eminently reasonable assumption that this person will be much less of a liar than Donald Trump).

chevyontheriver · Jul 2, 2024

BNR32FAN said:
It always comes down to two candidates, voting for anyone other than the two lead candidates is just wasting your vote.

Au contraire. It comes down to thinking that you have to be owned by either Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum. I don't waste my vote because I won't vote for either of them. The people who are voting for them are the ones wasting their votes by voting for people they really don't like just to stop other candidates they really don't like.

chevyontheriver · Jul 2, 2024

expos4ever said:
At this point, repeat at this point, I suggest this option is unrealistic. The key moral imperative: keep Trump out of the White House. I believe the only realistic way to do this is to vote for Biden (or whatever other lying candidate they come up with under the eminently reasonable assumption that this person will be much less of a liar than Donald Trump).

So for some 'key moral imperative' you would be happy with a liar to keep Trump out of the White House. But let's suppose, hypothetically, that Trump actually wins the election. Would your 'key moral imperative' include riots then, or assassination, or acts of terrorism? If you are willing to support a liar to stop Trump then just how far are you willing to go supposing he wins the election?

My key moral imperative is to vote for a decent candidate. Having not found that in Trump or in Biden I will cast my vote for someone else.

BNR32FAN · Jul 2, 2024

chevyontheriver said:
Au contraire. It comes down to thinking that you have to be owned by either Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum. I don't waste my vote because I won't vote for either of them. The people who are voting for them are the ones wasting their votes by voting for people they really don't like just to stop other candidates they really don't like.

Which is where it comes down to choosing the lesser of two evils. You may not like either candidate but you still have the choice of choosing between one or the other. Usually one supports your values more than the other.

jas3 · Jul 2, 2024

chevyontheriver said:
And most people are happy to vote for an accomplished liar just to stop the other liar. Am I the only guy who is unsettled by that?

No, but the moral uprightness of a candidate is not the only consideration in whether or not to vote for him.

chevyontheriver · Jul 2, 2024

jas3 said:
No, but the moral uprightness of a candidate is not the only consideration in whether or not to vote for him.

Of course not. But in deciding that we are not electing a 'pastor' we seem to be willing to elect a 'scoundrel'. We need better than that.

chevyontheriver · Jul 2, 2024

BNR32FAN said:
Which is where it comes down to choosing the lesser of two evils. You may not like either candidate but you still have the choice of choosing between one or the other. Usually one supports your values more than the other.

Happily my ballot will have more than two choices, It even has a line where I can write in the name of someone. I'm not stuck voting for Trump, whom I dislike for all of the usual reasons, just to stop Biden, whom I dislike for all of the usual reasons. Biden may win, but I don't have to choose between two evil candidates.

frienden thalord · Jul 2, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
He is not my guy. I am guy-less. 3rd party with no chance.

I have an idea , but we have to move fast .
Get ahold of your congressmen .
Get a big fast list too .
And tell them , HEY we got one to run for president .
Freinden thalord twenty twenty four , making biblical correction great again can be my slogan .
Now write and get as many as you can to put me up as a candidate . hurry .
i had asked the catholics to put me in as pope
that if trump can run for president while claiming to be no politicain
then i , who am not catholic can run for pope . But yeah they done run me off.
Somtimes we must find a bit of humor so as we just dont cry all the day long about how this entire world is turning out .
So at the very least try and chuckle a bit about what i just typed .

frienden thalord · Jul 2, 2024

Vambram said:
I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with that post.

pardner i must agree with you on this one . Trump is not the biggest liar .
But if i say what realm is , You may as well say good bye to me cause it wont be tolerated .
I said REALM . and beleive you me its an entire realm that make trump look like a choir boy on lying one o one .
Trump might stretch things a bit from time to time , but BELIEVE YOU ME
there are far many who Lie almost non stop . the problem is this realm , this so many , THEY GOT and OWN THE MEDIA my friend .
THAT too is a fact .

Trump rejects Franklin Graham's request that he not curse in speeches

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