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Trump Needs Better Fact Checkers

Sistrin

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During a speech given in California tonight (4/28) Donald Trump cited the story of General John 'Black Jack' Pershing's actions against the Moro tribesmen during the Philippine Insurgency prior to World War I. The Moros were practicing Muslims, and the specific story associated with their eventual defeat typically follows the pattern illustrated here, quote:

A True story about General "Black Jack" Pershing

"One important thing to remember is that Muslims detest pork because they believe pigs are filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won't even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood, etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise and doomed to hell.

Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks against the United States and it's interests by, you guessed it, Muslim extremists.

So General Pershing captured 50 of the terrorists and had them tied to posts execution style. He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the, now horrified, terrorists.

The soldiers then soaked their bullets in pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad.

The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorist's bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails, etc.

They let the 50th man go. And for about the next 42 years, there was not a single attack by a muslim fanatic anywhere in the world."


Another version of the story:

black-jack-pershing_zps2w6a64i8.jpg


Apparently this isn't the first time Trump has included this tale in a political speech:

Trump cites story of general who dipped bullets in pigs' blood to deter Muslims

Dated February 20th, 2016.

I first heard this story in Ranger School. Followed by the instructor telling us it wasn't true. Researching it years later I found the problem with telling any version of this story is both personally and historically problematic, as it can't be verified and thus should be considered historically false.

Pershing was a true war-fighter. His career and military exploits have been well documented. Pershing understood the nature of warfare but he also understood the nature of diplomacy. By all accounts I have read executing forty-nine prisoners would not only have gone against his character but would have been a violation of his dual strategy to defeat the Moro Insurgents. The story as told, not only by Trump but many others through the years, appears to have spawned from an actual event. As first reported by the Chicago Daily Tribune in 1927 Pershing did order pigs blood to be "sprinkled" on Moro prisoners, his intent to send a message. He therefore ordered those prisoners be released in hope they would tell the tale and instill fear in the tribes.

162096-kmosdfv.jpg


Pershing was efficient but he wasn't ruthless. The General actually wrote letters to the Moro tribes expressing his regret over the deaths of their soldiers in combat. He desired victory, true, and his forces routinely pounded Moro defenders entrenched in their various forts. But his overall approach included attempts to limit the killing when possible. Slaughtering prisoners would be counter-intuitive and ultimately self defeating. Joachim Peiper would later learn that tragic lesson.

Trump isn't the first to tell this apocryphal story and I doubt he will be the last. But he should know better. Or at least someone on his campaign staff should know better. Trump is often criticized for his hubris, and moments such as this only serve to highlight that failing and provide easy ammunition for his detractors. As lies go this one is minor, as he may genuinely believe the story to be true. But it is incredibly sloppy.

The danger with those who believe they know everything is the inherent and obvious truth they do not. Combine this with egocentric narcissism and the political future of America appears as if it will be business as usual regardless of which of the two front-running clowns are eventually elected. Which I find sad.

It isn't as if this particular event was the final straw, as I was never on the Trump for President bandwagon. The point is when I see a politician, any politician, make such an obvious and easily preventable gaff I can't help but mourn. Ignorance is not a virtue but can often be excused. Willful ignorance can't.
 
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revanneosl

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I have found, over the years, that if some story is just too perfectly illustrative of a point that I want desperately to make, it's probably horse pucky. I say this, Sistrin, as somebody who has deeply and often viciously, disagreed with you on this board. It should be enough for all of us to make our points by using the truth. We shouldn't descend into fiction.
 
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The Cadet

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Here's a short version of the first post for anyone who considers it TL;DR:

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

Like, c'mon, if you aren't already on board with the fact that Trump is more full of crap than a manure factory, then you aren't paying attention!

(None of this is meant to knock the OP, though. Great post, good research Sistrin. :) )
 
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DaisyDay

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Trump would have to actually care whether something were factual or not to bother with fact-checking. His pattern indicates that he most certainly does not.
 
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KWCrazy

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I've heard the Pershing story told many times as truth and sometimes as myth. It's doubtful that it happened even close to how it was reported, but threatening to bury the Muslims with pig entrails would have avoided more violence, which was what Pershing wanted. So Trump needs a better fact checker and Hillary lies so much even she doesn't remember the truth. Given the choice, I'll go with the guy who needs more fact checking. Better to be wrong than to be a liar.
 
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cow451

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Trump isn't concerned with facts getting in the way of a good story. His "Fact-checking" deflector shields are impenetrable. He's a classic pitchman. He says and repeats whatever the audience wants to hear with the air of certainty and authority. Therefore it becomes truth for the believers.

ShamWOW.gif
 
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USincognito

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The story is full of urban legend red flags, not the least of which being the 42 year claim. A check of Wikipedia shows that even the Moros were not entirely supplicated after the rebellion was put down. Outbreaks of fighting and violence occurred right up until the Japanese invasion.
 
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iluvatar5150

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During a speech given in California tonight (4/28) Donald Trump cited the story of General John 'Black Jack' Pershing's actions against the Moro tribesmen during the Philippine Insurgency prior to World War I. The Moros were practicing Muslims, and the specific story associated with their eventual defeat typically follows the pattern illustrated here, quote:

Interesting story. Thanks for sharing it. (genuinely)

But he should know better.

Those 5 words sum up the opposition to Trump about as well as any article I've read.



I have found, over the years, that if some story is just too perfectly illustrative of a point that I want desperately to make, it's probably horse pucky. I say this, Sistrin, as somebody who has deeply and often viciously, disagreed with you on this board. It should be enough for all of us to make our points by using the truth. We shouldn't descend into fiction.

Yep.
 
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Belk

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I've heard the Pershing story told many times as truth and sometimes as myth. It's doubtful that it happened even close to how it was reported, but threatening to bury the Muslims with pig entrails would have avoided more violence, which was what Pershing wanted. So Trump needs a better fact checker and Hillary lies so much even she doesn't remember the truth. Given the choice, I'll go with the guy who needs more fact checking. Better to be wrong than to be a liar.


What is it with people thinking pigs are like Muslim Kryptonite?
 
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Robert Palase

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What is it with people thinking pigs are like Muslim Kryptonite?
It serves to illustrate what people can be made to believe, all religions other than the one they believe sound ridiculous to people who don't believe that religion and equally has absolutely no impact on people who for some unknown reason think that their religion is somehow true, it's mind boggling, to be religious one must obviously be taught how to suspend all enquiry into their own religion, they feel able to pick other religions to pieces as much as they like but do not pick their own religion to pieces, perhaps it's because they know they will find the same faults in theirs as they do in all the rest.
 
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Sistrin

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It serves to illustrate what people can be made to believe, all religions other than the one they believe sound ridiculous to people who don't believe that religion and equally has absolutely no impact on people who for some unknown reason think that their religion is somehow true, it's mind boggling, to be religious one must obviously be taught how to suspend all enquiry into their own religion, they feel able to pick other religions to pieces as much as they like but do not pick their own religion to pieces, perhaps it's because they know they will find the same faults in theirs as they do in all the rest.

Spoken by someone who obviously has never been to the Middle East, has never witnessed the practice of Islam in action, and in all probability never even asked a practicing Muslim why they believe as they do where pigs are concerned but knows only they hate Christianity.
 
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Robert Palase

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Spoken by someone who obviously has never been to the Middle East, has never witnessed the practice of Islam in action, and in all probability never even asked a practicing Muslim why they believe as they do where pigs are concerned but knows only they hate Christianity.
I have been to the middle east, two years in Aden with the RAF and two years in Saudi Arabia with British Aerospace, I have never asked a Muslim why they believe because I already know the answer to that question, they were indoctrinated into believing that's why they believe.

I did ask a Muslim in the UK once why he was a Muslim, he said he had chosen to be a Muslim when he was 16 years old, I asked him had he been to the mosque before that and he said he had spent most of his time in the mosque before he was 16 but had decided to be a Muslim all by himself and was not pressured into becoming a Muslim by anyone, not even his family,
I just nodded my head.

Muslims are as convinced about Islam as Christians are about Christianity, they can't both be right, but they can both be wrong, both will go to their grave convinced that they are the true believers, then they will die and it won't matter any more.
 
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Albion

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It serves to illustrate what people can be made to believe, all religions other than the one they believe sound ridiculous to people who don't believe that religion and equally has absolutely no impact on people who for some unknown reason think that their religion is somehow true, it's mind boggling, to be religious one must obviously be taught how to suspend all enquiry into their own religion, they feel able to pick other religions to pieces as much as they like but do not pick their own religion to pieces, perhaps it's because they know they will find the same faults in theirs as they do in all the rest.
This isn't fair to the members of any faith. It's a generalization that probably does apply to some people but it certainly is not true of the rest. Even with the example you used of Islam and pigs, there's a reason for such thinking, and although the admonition is taken to an extreme, many people would say, the basis is to be found in Judaism and the Old Testament, both of which Islam borrowed from.
 
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DaisyDay

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Spoken by someone who obviously has never been to the Middle East, has never witnessed the practice of Islam in action, and in all probability never even asked a practicing Muslim why they believe as they do where pigs are concerned but knows only they hate Christianity.
The same reason Jews do.
 
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