True or False?

[alexiscurious]

Every time the devil wants to tempt someone he has to fly up to Heaven to ask God for permission first.

 

[aiki]

The Bible does not say that the devil flies anywhere. His mode of transport is not described in the Bible. Inasmuch as the devil is a spirit being, how he gets around is likely very different from how we do.

In any case, I don't think Satan has to get permission from God every time he wants to tempt someone. I think God has given the devil a general set of boundaries within which he can work in the world. Those boundaries may be restricted or enlarged on an individual basis as God sees fit, however.

Selah.

 

[St_Worm2]

Every time the devil wants to tempt someone he has to fly up to Heaven to ask God for permission first.

Hello AiC, I assume you are asking your question based upon Satan's actions in Job 1-2, yes? Satan mentions there that he "walks" when he is on the earth, and that is most likely exactly what he was doing in Job 1-2, but is that his only method of getting around? Clearly not.

I agree with Aiki but will add this to it, the Lord ordains all things that come to pass, in Heaven and on Earth. While Satan may or may not petition the Lord directly about each and everything he choses to do, God is fully aware of what Satan intends to do long before the devil himself does and God always chooses to allow it or not.

Here is a warning from St. Peter about the devil: "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour." 1 Peter 5:8

Does Satan see someone he'd like to temp and then have to ask God's permission to do so first? I don't believe the Bible tells us that, but in a sense, because of God's omniscience & omnipotence, and His ordination from the beginning of all that will come to pass, it's already a reality one way or the other.

Hope that helps a bit.

--David

 

[ChesterKhan]

Every time the devil wants to tempt someone he has to fly up to Heaven to ask God for permission first.

False. Why would he? Do you think he cares about divine authority?

That, of course, doesn't mean he locks himself up in his house and never talks to God. On the contrary, if you hate God, why wouldn't you shove your junk in His face and say, "Eat it [expletive removed]!"?

 

[St_Worm2]

Do you think he cares about divine authority?

That Satan is under the authority of the Almighty, whether he wants to be or not, is clearly demonstrated by the fact that we are still alive, yes ..

That is not to say that Satan does not choose to disobey God (He is a free agent after all, and capable of acting upon his desires), but God has clearly hedged him in (like he did in the Book of Job), setting limits on how far he is allowed to go ..

--David

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Every time the devil wants to tempt someone he has to fly up to Heaven to ask God for permission first.

False. Satan or his Minions can tempt us into ungodliness and sin at a moments notice . In extreme situations such as in the book of Job, God allowed Satan to test Jobs devotion and faith in God by putting harsh persecution on him .

Concerning us, God will always give us a way out of temptation that Satan sets us up with . And God has given us Spiritual Warfare Weapons to come against Satans attacks .

Satan has enormous power as he can tempt us thru our thought-life and is highly deceiving. He is a Master at truth twisting and making things seem a certain way , when they are not the truth . He capitalizes on defaming or demoting Gods character, Christs finished atonement that is sufficient to save us , and has an array of attacks by getting people to believe in false doctrine such as God was once a Man or Mary graduating to being the Queen of Heaven thereby having powers and abilities that only God truly has. Satans deceit is virtually endless.

He knows our weaknesses also ; we are especially vulnerable when we are either :

Hungry
Angry
Lonely
Tired

(the acronym is H.A.L.T. for easy rememberance)

The Bible does say that God can and often does limit the work and effects of Satan where we are concerned which is very comforting and indicates that Satan is not higher in power and authority over God. Satan does have some limitations whereas God is unlimited in all his attributes.

One of the best things we can do is , get real familiar with Ephesians chapter 6 which is the Spiritual Armor chapter and learn how and when to use this God devised Armor for our protection and offensive attack on Satan . If we don't, we will be casualities all our life.

 

[ChesterKhan]

That Satan is under the authority of the Almighty, whether he wants to be or not, is clearly demonstrated by the fact that we are still alive, yes ..

That is not to say that Satan does not choose to disobey God (He is a free agent after all, and capable of acting upon his desires), but God has clearly hedged him in (like he did in the Book of Job), setting limits on how far he is allowed to go ..

--David

God can, if He wishes, satiate a man, or an angel's, curiosity, or even his challenges. I suspect God just wanted Satan to stop spamming his e-mail box for a minute. Totally off-the-cuff interpretation.

Though Job is largely poetry, particularly on the question of suffering. Now, whether it is a factual account? ... who knows. Why not? May as well; Job's is just an example of the worst possible evil that could be done to a man. And from it we can understand two things:

1) Even in the worst situations, even if all Hell breaks loose on you, God is still there, and
2) Nothing can keep a man who loves God from loving God, even if He considers himself innocent before God.

Now, of what use that is to Job, or to the OP, I don't know. But in the context of the whole Book, and of Tradition and History, I don't think it irrational to say that Good Always Wins the Day. Not in the heart of every man - for that would require the man's permission. Not every man is willing to give that to God. But even in the worst situations, a man who loves God will not be on death's door forever.

 

[NannaNae]

Every time the devil wants to tempt someone he has to fly up to Heaven to ask God for permission first.

here is my take..
no not just someone! not just anyone!
he had to challenge God about Job.. in that way he Got god's approval.. but that is just one situtation.
Now the bible makes it clear we just have to resist the devil and he will flee..
if everytime he attacks you it makes you run to the father/jesus .. he will stop attacking.

if the enemies of God attacks you and make you fall, you are training him to attack you.. he will keep attacking until you are bound and in his control again.. so it is really about what you really really want .... if you want bad breaks and poor management you can have it then blame it on God.. but the truth is it was you who got your way.. one way or the other.
in the mean time we always have a mighty weapon for our real war which sometimes feels like it is all about flesh and blood / real people.. but it is not.. .. it is called the name of Jesus and his spirit gives discernment and protection if we are obedient. the enemy will flee because he tells us our battle isn't really about flesh and blood!
flesh and blood just seems scarier because people are freakin nuts..
but those powers and authorities in high( something low but lifted up / so an authority from low places would be a better translation now days , maybe) is our real battle.. and you can resist them and they will flee.. they have too
hope that helps somehow!

 

[oi_antz]

Another question, more fundamental, and which will put light on the answers: is all tempting done by the devil, and if not, then what motivates the devil to do his tempting?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Another question, more fundamental, and which will put light on the answers: is all tempting done by the devil, and if not, then what motivates the devil to do his tempting?

Not all tempting is done directly by the Devil, for, we are often tempted when we get a thought in our Mind , dwell on it, marinate in it, start visualizing it becoming a reality, start to 'own it' , then move to the final stage of actively doing it. So, the 3 things besides Satan that can influence this are : 1. Lust of the flesh 2 Lust of the eyes 3 Pride of Life. The battle is in the Mind and while it is there, we can apply Spiritual Warfare tactics to rid the temptation . Jesus in the Wilderness is a prize example of how to offensively fight the Devil and temptations that come from within.

 

[oi_antz]

Not all tempting is done directly by the Devil, for, we are often tempted when we get a thought in our Mind , dwell on it, marinate in it, start visualizing it becoming a reality, start to 'own it' , then move to the final stage of actively doing it. So, the 3 things besides Satan that can influence this are : 1. Lust of the flesh 2 Lust of the eyes 3 Pride of Life. The battle is in the Mind and while it is there, we can apply Spiritual Warfare tactics to rid the temptation . Jesus in the Wilderness is a prize example of how to offensively fight the Devil and temptations that come from within.

Thanks David, that is pretty much what makes best sense to me too. What do you think is the devil's motivation when he does tempt us? I expect there could be multiple desires involved, but I am not putting an opinion out here just yet. I think this is a fundamental question for all opinion though, I look forward to hearing what ideas there are. Not to hijack a thread, only to help OP by identifying this missing layer of context.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Thanks David, that is pretty much what makes best sense to me too. What do you think is the devil's motivation when he does tempt us? I expect there could be multiple desires involved, but I am not putting an opinion out here just yet. I think this is a fundamental question for all opinion though, I look forward to hearing what ideas there are. Not to hijack a thread, only to help OP by identifying this missing layer of context.

The Devils motivation for tempting us is as the Bible outlines :

His over-arching agenda is to steal, kill, and destroy :

a. Steal our devotion to God / Christ . Steal our joy in the Lord. Steal any and all Godly mandates for our lives including living a life of morality, ethics, and high principles.
b. Try to get us to see our lives as meaningless, unimportant, without purpose and hope / to have us grow in despair to the ultimate point of killing ourselves via suicide / killing any desire for God and Godly things.
c. To destroy or demote or defame Christ and his finished sufficient work done on calvary and to convince us of it. Christ destroyed the Devil and now the Devil is out to convince us that it failed in some way. To destroy our lives thru messing with our Christian character , our Christian ideals, and to draw us back into the life we had before Christ saved us .

Tactics include knowing our own personal weaknesses then concentrating on them to create as much havoc as possible ; he achieves this when we cave in to our lusts of the flesh, lust of our eyes, and the pride of life . We also cave in when we are not spiritually equipped to recognize when a satanic attack is upon us as well as not knowing how to properly curtail the attack (temptation) beforehand so it can be applied when the attack comes. Many Christians don't prepare for war and if they don't prepare , then they become casualties.

Until I got real proficient at Spiritual Warfare which included ME knowing my weaknesses, I was a casualty quite often.

 

[NannaNae]

Thanks David, that is pretty much what makes best sense to me too. What do you think is the devil's motivation when he does tempt us? I expect there could be multiple desires involved, but I am not putting an opinion out here just yet. I think this is a fundamental question for all opinion though, I look forward to hearing what ideas there are. Not to hijack a thread, only to help OP by identifying this missing layer of context.

maybe because if he can get us to take ownership of those temptations ( like " but god made me this way" , or 'if my dad or mom hadn't' ... as if the person had or has never had any choices in the matter ) and all the reasoning/ justification that we want those bad brakes and poor management for .. we then demand that God except us that way.. and the enemy knows that God demands we change it by allowing him to change it .
then it is only a battle of will. and the enemy knows God will not change our will or our actions unless we ask him too. but by that ownership of sin..the enemy had managed to push that person over a cliff and has thus isolated them from God in their mind. and the only way back is to climb that cliff.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

maybe because if he can get us to take ownership of those temptations ( like " but god made me this way" , or 'if my dad or mom hadn't' ... as if the person had or has never had any choices in the matter ) and all the reasoning/ justification that we want those bad brakes and poor management for .. we then demand that God except us that way.. and the enemy knows that God demands we change it by allowing him to change it .
then it is only a battle of will. and the enemy knows God will not change our will or our actions unless we ask him too. but by that ownership of sin..the enemy had managed to push that person over a cliff and has thus isolated them from God in their mind. and the only way back is to climb that cliff.

Just like the popular McDonalds Restaurant slogan that goes :'You deserve a break today' ....... so Satan tries to convince us likewise when it comes to partaking in any form of ungodliness (rebellion to God) . I see two major problems in this whole scheme of temptation :

1. Satan trying very cleverly to get us off track from God by appealing to enticement .

2. We being willing to suppress our moral conscience to get what we want as a result of the enticement ; thus, it becomes a collaboration with the Devil. We can make the excuse that 'The Devil made me do it' but in reality, the Devil was only the catalyst but WE made it happen.


What we are all face with is : do we want the temporary 'fix' in exchange for vetoing the important (?) .

 

[oi_antz]

The Devils motivation for tempting us is as the Bible outlines :

His over-arching agenda is to steal, kill, and destroy :

a. Steal our devotion to God / Christ . Steal our joy in the Lord. Steal any and all Godly mandates for our lives including living a life of morality, ethics, and high principles.
b. Try to get us to see our lives as meaningless, unimportant, without purpose and hope / to have us grow in despair to the ultimate point of killing ourselves via suicide / killing any desire for God and Godly things.
c. To destroy or demote or defame Christ and his finished sufficient work done on calvary and to convince us of it. Christ destroyed the Devil and now the Devil is out to convince us that it failed in some way. To destroy our lives thru messing with our Christian character , our Christian ideals, and to draw us back into the life we had before Christ saved us .

Tactics include knowing our own personal weaknesses then concentrating on them to create as much havoc as possible ; he achieves this when we cave in to our lusts of the flesh, lust of our eyes, and the pride of life . We also cave in when we are not spiritually equipped to recognize when a satanic attack is upon us as well as not knowing how to properly curtail the attack (temptation) beforehand so it can be applied when the attack comes. Many Christians don't prepare for war and if they don't prepare , then they become casualties.

Until I got real proficient at Spiritual Warfare which included ME knowing my weaknesses, I was a casualty quite often.

Yes, I am aware of that verse and your description of it does seem reasonable. My question though is more about what motivates the devil to behave this way. I wonder if it is jealousy of the human, or hatred and spite of God, or desire for sovereignty, etc. I think that by understanding why the devil does what he does, it will just naturally lead to an understanding of whether he has to ask God for permission. I understand the OP is gently mocking the idea, but all the ideas that people mock around here are considered important to someone. This idea sure seems to have been important to Jesus. There are some people (typically not Christian) who believe the devil is God's agent. Some people believe the devil is another face of God. If these can be demonstrated as a reasonable belief, it would give balance to the discussion and it would turn the OP from a gentle mocking into a serious question. It would also show the purpose of life as less of a tragedy and more of a test. I don't think I can expect to see it happen in this thread, but I still think it is important to establish the devil's motivation in this thread because without it, all our assumptions are most likely to be viewed by Alex as unreasonable and therefore unjustified. I would rather that he would see that Chrsitianity is something worth exploring, and that it's theological development does require critical thinking. Outsiders often see rhetoric, and because they lack crucial layers of context as I have seen happen here, they assume that it is not an activity that does require thinking. That makes them wrong, which usually contradicts their ultimate desire. I want to help Alex with that, so I appreciate your time and patience to explain your opinions for us

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Yes, I am aware of that verse and your description of it does seem reasonable. My question though is more about what motivates the devil to behave this way. I wonder if it is jealousy of the human, or hatred and spite of God, or desire for sovereignty, etc. I think that by understanding why the devil does what he does, it will just naturally lead to an understanding of whether he has to ask God for permission. I understand the OP is gently mocking the idea, but all the ideas that people mock around here are considered important to someone. This idea sure seems to have been important to Jesus. There are some people (typically not Christian) who believe the devil is God's agent. Some people believe the devil is another face of God. If these can be demonstrated as a reasonable belief, it would give balance to the discussion and it would turn the OP from a gentle mocking into a serious question. It would also show the purpose of life as less of a tragedy and more of a test. I don't think I can expect to see it happen in this thread, but I still think it is important to establish the devil's motivation in this thread because without it, all our assumptions are most likely to be viewed by Alex as unreasonable and therefore unjustified. I would rather that he would see that Chrsitianity is something worth exploring, and that it's theological development does require critical thinking. Outsiders often see rhetoric, and because they lack crucial layers of context as I have seen happen here, they assume that it is not an activity that does require thinking. That makes them wrong, which usually contradicts their ultimate desire. I want to help Alex with that, so I appreciate your time and patience to explain your opinions for us

The motivation of Satan to destroy lives is all centered around Pride and Arrogance in wanting to be like/higher than God . He couldn't so he got banished from a very high place in Heaven ; his agenda now is to get revenge against God and all who follow him and he does it relentlessly. Even when the AntiChrist is revealed on Earth, he will claim to be God and dupe many --- only strong Christians will be able to discern the deception. Its sad to think that someone very real hates us as much as God loves us...but that im afraid is reality. Be on guard my Friend because we are in a Mine Field .

 

[NannaNae]

Yes, I am aware of that verse and your description of it does seem reasonable. My question though is more about what motivates the devil to behave this way. I wonder if it is jealousy of the human, or hatred and spite of God, or desire for sovereignty, etc. I think that by understanding why the devil does what he does, it will just naturally lead to an understanding of whether he has to ask God for permission. I understand the OP is gently mocking the idea, but all the ideas that people mock around here are considered important to someone. This idea sure seems to have been important to Jesus. There are some people (typically not Christian) who believe the devil is God's agent. Some people believe the devil is another face of God. If these can be demonstrated as a reasonable belief, it would give balance to the discussion and it would turn the OP from a gentle mocking into a serious question. It would also show the purpose of life as less of a tragedy and more of a test. I don't think I can expect to see it happen in this thread, but I still think it is important to establish the devil's motivation in this thread because without it, all our assumptions are most likely to be viewed by Alex as unreasonable and therefore unjustified. I would rather that he would see that Chrsitianity is something worth exploring, and that it's theological development does require critical thinking. Outsiders often see rhetoric, and because they lack crucial layers of context as I have seen happen here, they assume that it is not an activity that does require thinking. That makes them wrong, which usually contradicts their ultimate desire. I want to help Alex with that, so I appreciate your time and patience to explain your opinions for us

personally I suspect the Devil is trying to get God to repent, to repent for picking man and not angels/him to be 'his children.." he picked them to be his servants. I think Enoch comes to a similar type of conclusion.

if the devil can get all mankind to pretend they are monkeys uncles and alien sperm or lucky pond scum ..or whatever the next fad/ lie out of the hell and academia or holyweird is .

to where we all have broke God's laws so badly God can NOT save none of us and none of us will be found worthy or will we overcome.. .. so then could Satan get God to repent of Choosing us and would God forgive him ? I think the enemy thinks so! I know he can't do it .. but he seems to be willing trying it .

and lots of people think they are monkeys uncles and alien sperm or really lucky pond scum now days..
I mean they believe in ghost and demons but not God.
they believe in the spiritual dimension but not a God
which had to have created those dimensions and beings .
if I didn't know for sure that God would turn this around somehow . If it is really the war of the devil vrs man I would put my money on the devil .. because man is proving to be NOT so bright or so good as they pretend to be .
but I am sure God turns it around someway only he could do..

 

[Aryeh Jay]

.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Not all tempting is done directly by the Devil, for, we are often tempted when we get a thought in our Mind , dwell on it, marinate in it, start visualizing it becoming a reality, start to 'own it' , then move to the final stage of actively doing it. So, the 3 things besides Satan that can influence this are : 1. Lust of the flesh 2 Lust of the eyes 3 Pride of Life. The battle is in the Mind and while it is there, we can apply Spiritual Warfare tactics to rid the temptation . Jesus in the Wilderness is a prize example of how to offensively fight the Devil and temptations that come from within.

 

[theophilus40]

What Satan wanted to do to Job was more than simply tempting him to sin. Job was probably already experiencing constant temptations and successfully resisting them. Satan wanted to see how Job would respond if the blessings God had given him were taken away and for that he had to ask special permission from God.